572 bbc reliability

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BWXSTREAM
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572 bbc reliability

Postby BWXSTREAM » Fri Aug 19, 2016 12:10 pm

i am going to be using a 572 big block crate on my 20 foot boat for bowfishing it has a belt reduction drive and a whirl wind whisper tip prop all my air boat buddies from Wisconsin are telling me the engine wont last one season because they blow up.. i have gotten told to buy a small block LS is this what i should do or is there a way i can build up my stock bbc

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scottyroll
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Re: 572 bbc reliability

Postby scottyroll » Fri Aug 19, 2016 12:26 pm

I'm sure you will get quite a few mixed answers via this thread and thru PM.

I have not ran one and am personally partial to the advanced technology used in LS based engines.

Feel free to use the search function for this site.

Here is a thread I dug up regarding the 572:

http://southernairboat.com/phpBB3/viewtopic.php?f=48&t=11246
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SWAMPHUNTER45
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Re: 572 bbc reliability

Postby SWAMPHUNTER45 » Fri Aug 19, 2016 12:33 pm

Give Floral City Airboats a call and try to talk with Mike the owner.

He had put several on bigger boats a few years back, he would be able to give a good idea of what to expect.

http://www.airboatfl.com/

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Waterthunder
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Re: 572 bbc reliability

Postby Waterthunder » Fri Aug 19, 2016 1:01 pm

Call Walls Gator farm in LA they use to blow them GM crate 572BBC's up constantly they blew up 5 or 6 in just one season. They bought two 418 stroker LS motors from us 6 years ago and they are both still running strong. Everyone says they run their stuff harder than anybody on the planet. You will be told a hundred different stories so I would talk to somebody who has actually ran both.
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Re: 572 bbc reliability

Postby Kenny627 » Fri Aug 19, 2016 6:46 pm

Personally,I would not buy a GM crate motor. I currently run an aftermarket "Felber" and like it and have had no issues. But I have a big heavy boat and turn it 5800. I could be wrong but I don't think you would get the same performance out of a small block?
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Deano
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Re: 572 bbc reliability

Postby Deano » Fri Aug 19, 2016 7:57 pm

If he was running a 572 Felber . . .

he could have told his buddies in Wisconsin they were just being plain silly. :lol: :D :lol:
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mcm4
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Re: 572 bbc reliability

Postby mcm4 » Fri Aug 19, 2016 9:36 pm

I think I remember that if you call and ask Water Thunder about putting a LS engine in a big heavy airboat that they don't recommend it, has that changed?

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Re: 572 bbc reliability

Postby Bdriller » Sat Aug 20, 2016 12:17 am

mcm4 wrote:I think I remember that if you call and ask Water Thunder about putting a LS engine in a big heavy airboat that they don't recommend it, has that changed?

Good point i remember same statement

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Deano
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Re: 572 bbc reliability

Postby Deano » Sat Aug 20, 2016 9:57 am

I don't know the answer(s) specifically about that, but as a casual observer I will say that there was a point in time (maybe long ago, but not far away) that Dave would refer people to Mike Felber at times when he perceived that was their better option.

Waterthunder wrote:Hello I have done more testing on the water then the stand. I think I know how to set up a boat and many people will tell you the same. I will say this and then I'm done, there is no way a smaller motor will be more reliable then a larger motor when it is worked hard it's called duty cycle's the small motor has to work harder AKA more duty cycles to perform the same amount of work. Anytime a small motor and a large motor are worked hard with an equal load the larger motor will live longer (if both motors are build properly). This is just one of many reasons you don't find V6's in work trucks. Whats even funnier is I sell small blocks and I'm just being honest instead of selling our product. A small inch motor can not be as reliable as a bigger motor when both are built properly the smaller motor must turn more RPM's. With airboats there is a substantial wall around 2,200lb's of thrust a nasty LS can make it when geared and propped properly and you have to run it hard but a Big BBC can make 2,200lbs of thrust with less effort and be more reliable doing so. Also the difference between 2,000lb's of thrust and 2,200 is astounding and takes much more power then you would ever think so if you want to achieve the max thrust possible the small block is not the way to do it. I would be better off business wise to say the LS or small block is better because I sell them. However for me to state a small block is better on a big heavy boat I would have to compromise my morals and I will not do that to make a sale.

At this point it is common knowledge that Mike Felber is no longer building airboat engines. Given that option is no longer available, and Dave has another six years of LS experience and testing under his belt, maybe his view about that has justifiably changed.

Back in those days, if you wanted a small block you went to Dave and if you wanted a big block you went to Mike.
He was very knowledgeable and readily willing to share his insights when asked. I'm sure there are many other old timers around here in addition to myself, who miss his posting, input and insights.
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Re: 572 bbc reliability

Postby mcm4 » Sat Aug 20, 2016 10:35 am

I was not talking about back in the day.... I was talking about last year... Does Dave at Water Thunder recommend his LS engines for big heavy airboats ?? There is no doubt he builds a great LS engine, however does he recommend his engine for a big heavy bowfishing boat? or big heavy deckover? Everything I have seen and heard says no ... but he certainly can change his mind and when he does I will pay attention to what he says..

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Re: 572 bbc reliability

Postby Deano » Sat Aug 20, 2016 10:54 am

If only I was psychic,
I would have known that Image

AND the answer to your question. :lol:







and I also would've known that wasn't how you spell psychic. ha ha
Last edited by Deano on Sat Aug 20, 2016 8:17 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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jopete
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Re: 572 bbc reliability

Postby jopete » Sat Aug 20, 2016 12:15 pm

another place you could call is Mark's Airboats in Franklin, La. and ask about what bbc's they are using in their boats these days. they make big, heavy airboats every day. [don't know if they are a sponsor over here or not]
I ran a 454HO crate motor for years. no major issues,

I always heard to run iron heads or put better valves in it if u run alum heads.


good luck with your boat!!!!!!!!!!!

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Prototype
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Re: 572 bbc reliability

Postby Prototype » Sat Aug 20, 2016 8:42 pm

BWXSTREAM wrote:i am going to be using a 572 big block crate on my 20 foot boat for bowfishing it has a belt reduction drive and a whirl wind whisper tip prop all my air boat buddies from Wisconsin are telling me the engine wont last one season because they blow up.. i have gotten told to buy a small block LS is this what i should do or is there a way i can build up my stock bbc


I have one season on a 572 slightly modified! From the crate it had head work known and needed done. Added a little fogger system that dynoed up near a big blower. The stock burn will cost 9 gallons an hour of 75% no eth and 25% 110. Nos can be estimated at another 10 bullfrogs per second!
Hope you have funding to warrant using a 572 in any fashion!

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Re: 572 bbc reliability

Postby akblackdawg » Sun Aug 21, 2016 11:31 pm

I believe MAS is still making a 572, and if they are, that would be the one to go with, hands down.
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Re: 572 bbc reliability

Postby RJC5778 » Mon Aug 22, 2016 9:42 am

personally, id shy away from a crate motor, if you have a bbc already, i would send in to someone who has built airboat application engines before, these engines live in the higher rpm band 90% of their lives, maybe not your application of a bowfishing rig as i assume you idle alot, so its a trade off. id sit down and look at the pros and cons of both options and make you decision from there. talk to 572 crate motor boat owners and get their advice, and weigh it in your decision, i run a bbc 498 stroker purpose built engine, takes a beating and wants more, i was in your shoes when we first started looking at engine options. i talked to a seismograph airboat owner and he bought a brand new 502 crate engine from marks airboats in franklin la, marks installed the engine and went do a test run in the water after setting the prop and doing proper break in and it blew up with in 30 minutes of running, after 6 months of back and forth with gm, they warrantied it and replaced it, if the crate motor makes it past 100 hours you have a good one, as most problems arise before then in most cases, im not knocking crate motors they just arent designed for marine/airboat applications. i understand its more money up front to build a marine/airboat engine but if you blow up a 15k crate motor and they wont warranty it cause its in an airboat, your gonna wish you went with a purpose built engine from water thunder or any other reputable engine builder. do your research and go with you gut feeling, no replacement for displacement IMO, nothing like a bbc at 5500 rpm :D .

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Re: 572 bbc reliability

Postby Waterthunder » Mon Aug 22, 2016 10:00 am

We have 3 540BBC's with EFI on biiiiiiiiiiiiigggggggg heavy boats with crane booms. And a few 582s BBCs with EFI out there too. It's simple physics the bigger and heavier the boat the more displacement you want. You dont see many dump trucks running around with small blocks in them. I would draw the line at 18ft or 6 people or if you have a ton of gear I strongly recommend a BBC. Some people will tell you other wise but they are trying to sell you their motor,,, not what is best for your application. SORRY JUST BEING HONEST! See if I sell 20 LS motors on 20ft boats and only one has a problem I pretty much built 20 motors for free and had a failure. I have had several people not be honest with me and tell me they had a 14ft boat only to find out they had a 21ft boat with 14 plus seats. None of them had any problems but it's just not the right way to go in my opinion. I have a customer in Alaska that huals lumber and supplies in a 24ft airboat for people in the Alaska Bush its ridiculous what he does to his boat and motor.
THE PROOF IS IN THE PROP!

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odcjohn
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Re: 572 bbc reliability

Postby odcjohn » Mon Aug 22, 2016 2:04 pm

gm crate motors dont have the right clearences for the abuse that a ab does to a engine best to have a shop build a purpose built engine for your needs..

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Waterthunder
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Re: 572 bbc reliability

Postby Waterthunder » Mon Aug 22, 2016 4:02 pm

Wrong clearances, wrong pistons and not even close on the cam grind, and gotta change the exhaust valves.
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Re: 572 bbc reliability

Postby riverat1953 » Wed Aug 24, 2016 7:59 am

Well...I have a 21 ft. heavy boat with a 572 counter rotator. It has been the beast for me. Virtually powers me out of every place I get myself into. I have had only minor issues with it since 2007. I have all the low end torque I need when I need it & all the top end I desire. I had a wedding party of 9 big fellers plus me (250lbs) & my beast just moved right along. Only thing is how heavy my tank is for the Brazos River where I run because of all the rocks! Lighter can be better! SOOOO maybe I am just lucky but here my 2 CENTS from Texas!

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Waterthunder
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Re: 572 bbc reliability

Postby Waterthunder » Wed Aug 24, 2016 4:47 pm

Consider yourself lucky I know off a ton and have heard some horror stories. The worst crate motor I have heard of so far is the LS3 carb motor I know of 5 or 6 that popped all in under 20hr's some as low as under 10hrs. As for GM 572 I know of three that didnt make it a day. I goes the same or the 502 GM BBC I know a lot of them pop and every now an then you hear of one lasting a few years.
THE PROOF IS IN THE PROP!

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BWXSTREAM
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Re: 572 bbc reliability

Postby BWXSTREAM » Wed Aug 24, 2016 9:05 pm

Well the overall issue is that i have already bought a 572 without the knowledge to stay away from one and i was trying to reach out to some experienced 572 owners and see what i can do to build it up and preserve its life as long as possible because of funding i can not afford a new one at this time.

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Re: 572 bbc reliability

Postby kwanjangnihm » Thu Aug 25, 2016 6:21 am

BWXSTREAM wrote: i have already bought a 572 without the knowledge to stay away from one - i can not afford a new one at this time


Can you sell the 572 and recoup money towards a different engine? If all these guys are telling you its gonna fail, it looks like a good bet you will be buying another engine soon anyway. :violent1:

Good luck bro and welcome to SA!! :rebel:
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Re: 572 bbc reliability

Postby SWAMPHUNTER45 » Thu Aug 25, 2016 7:02 am

Listen you can make it live and get years of service from it but this will require you to treat it like a queen. Understand this that your first 50 hours of use are critical to the big picture. You need to break it in slowly and use the right oil for the process. With bearing clearance issues what needs to happen is gentle use varied rpm without sustained high speed use. The bearings and rings need to cut and wear. The bearings will eventually allow oil to permeate into the pores. Until that happens a sustained high speed run risks excessive heat and spinning a bearing.

Start it up run it for 10 minutes, let it cool. Keep repeating this running up the rpms but not getting crazy with it and ride the boat at under 75% power for first 10-20 hours. Don't abuse it. Change oil and filter after first run and every 10 hours for first 50 hours.

DON'T RUN DRY GROUND

Important NOTE: You need to up the octane and set the timing as directed / evaluate octane protocols

There are a list of steps you MUST FOLLOW to ensure half a chance of this working out for you.
You will need to adapt some of this into a well though "boat" process as the procedures are for an automobile.

OIL MUST BE 20w-50 RACING OIL - Racing oils are High Zinc typically NOT SYNTHETIC

I suggest the KN oil filters don't skimp

You can make this work but it is going to require effort and moderation.

https://www.chevrolet.com/content/dam/C ... ions-1.pdf

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Prototype
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Re: 572 bbc reliability

Postby Prototype » Fri Aug 26, 2016 12:26 am

Waterthunder wrote:Consider yourself lucky I know off a ton and have heard some horror stories. The worst crate motor I have heard of so far is the LS3 carb motor I know of 5 or 6 that popped all in under 20hr's some as low as under 10hrs. As for GM 572 I know of three that didnt make it a day. I goes the same or the 502 GM BBC I know a lot of them pop and every now an then you hear of one lasting a few years.



I know! I pumped out close to 900 on the button and after a season it still hasn't popped.

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Re: 572 bbc reliability

Postby rbjscott » Fri Aug 26, 2016 1:36 am

The BBC needs more timing than the advocated 32 degrees. Gasses are still burning when the exhaust valve opens causing the valve to over heat, becoming an ignition source. Leading to engine failures. I run 32 degrees mechanical timing and 4 degrees vacuum advance .At WOT the advance goes away . Went from 1750 degrees exhaust to 1425 to 1450 degrees exhaust. I have 550 hours on my boat. Another boat with this trimming curve has 1100 hours on it. A 572 making 700 hp. also runs this timing curve.
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