Lock out timing

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Basin_Runner355
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Lock out timing

Postby Basin_Runner355 » Tue Dec 27, 2016 8:40 am

I have a shitty distributor goig to put a msd my mechanic wants me go get a msd that you can lock out the timing on.

I will get a msd since they are the best but what's the pros and cons of locking out the the timing on the distributor it's on a zz4 350 stock no cam or heads I will be putting on a rpm Air gap intake on it though. I've heard that you can run it locked out and it won't hurt nothing and viseversa that it wil hurt the. Motor if you run it locked out
14ft diamond back zz4 350 sbc 2:1 belt drive reduction with a 80 inch whirlwind prop powershift hub pitched at 4850

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406 JAMIE
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Re: Lock out timing

Postby 406 JAMIE » Tue Dec 27, 2016 12:55 pm

i had about same set up crate 350ci/330hp steel heads and ran the eldabrock dual plane alumn intake with matching eldabrock carb 750cfm vac secondary/advance flame thrower HEI distr.had 600cfm eldabrock vac sec ran so much better with 750.i personally if u have race motor i would run MSD but if something happens to that MSD it would be a lil harder to find 1then if ur broke down and u never said what type of MSD u were looking at running the 1 with 6al box or HEI?hope this helps sir have a blessed day. :rebel: :rebel:
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Deano
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Re: Lock out timing

Postby Deano » Tue Dec 27, 2016 1:45 pm

You will find people that will support locking it out, some of them are very vocal. In my opinion that does make it the desirable thing to do. When locked out, it will only be semi-optimal in part of the skinny top half of your power band and will create undo and unneeded wear when running at less than that. Notably, this is the same wear that many folks (including OEMs) go out of their way to prevent and avoid.

If you have a shitty distributor that needs replaced, then that is what it is. If you can get a deal on a MSD then that's all fine and good to. However, be aware that I am far from the only one who is of the opinion that for anything near stock build on an airboat, is very difficult to beat a regular HEI distributor with a properly set up mechanical curve. A new HEI can be had for half as much and uses generic parts should you need them. I would be more inclined to put that same money back in the engine, but in a fashion that would improve performance and/or longevity, not just create additional fail points.

To pay extra (for a locked out MSD) and have more wear and less longevity simply doesn't make sense, when you can pay less (for a properly curved HEI) and have decreased wear and increased longevity.

Others will chime in, I'm sure, but I recommend you research enough to understand why locking it out is not the thing you want to do. Yup . . . it's faster and easier than doing it right, but if you are paying a mechanic, I'm guessing that reliability and longevity is what you are after, not whatever is fastest and easiest.
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Deano
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Re: Lock out timing

Postby Deano » Tue Dec 27, 2016 2:03 pm

Here is one of the possibilities that is enhanced by running the timing locked out.

( courtesy of another current thread, not something I went hunting for )

Image
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glades cat
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Re: Lock out timing

Postby glades cat » Tue Dec 27, 2016 2:32 pm

Deano wrote:You will find people that will support locking it out, some of them are very vocal. In my opinion that does make it the desirable thing to do. When locked out, it will only be semi-optimal in part of the skinny top half of your power band and will create undo and unneeded wear when running at less than that. Notably, this is the same wear that many folks (including OEMs) go out of their way to prevent and avoid.

If you have a shitty distributor that needs replaced, then that is what it is. If you can get a deal on a MSD then that's all fine and good to. However, be aware that I am far from the only one who is of the opinion that for anything near stock build on an airboat, is very difficult to beat a regular HEI distributor with a properly set up mechanical curve. A new HEI can be had for half as much and uses generic parts should you need them. I would be more inclined to put that same money back in the engine, but in a fashion that would improve performance and/or longevity, not just create additional fail points.

To pay extra (for a locked out MSD) and have more wear and less longevity simply doesn't make sense, when you can pay less (for a properly curved HEI) and have decreased wear and increased longevity.

Others will chime in, I'm sure, but I recommend you research enough to understand why locking it out is not the thing you want to do. Yup . . . it's faster and easier than doing it right, but if you are paying a mechanic, I'm guessing that reliability and longevity is what you are after, not whatever is fastest and easiest.


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Re: Lock out timing

Postby SWAMPHUNTER45 » Tue Dec 27, 2016 3:09 pm

For around $100 you can get a aftermarket billet aluminum distributor complete with cap, rotor, high volt coil and module. Then have someone help you to ditch the vacume advance and set up a proper mechanical curve. If you want to get fancy Petronics has a component that inserts and waterproofs where the vacuum canister fit.

If your spinning 5,600 rpm or less GM HEI will do the job.

Total cost under $125 and works like a dream.
Last edited by SWAMPHUNTER45 on Tue Dec 27, 2016 3:13 pm, edited 1 time in total.

Basin_Runner355
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Re: Lock out timing

Postby Basin_Runner355 » Tue Dec 27, 2016 3:10 pm

Yea that's what I was gonna do just put them msd that goes in the place of the factory don't know which kinds that is im no mechanic
14ft diamond back zz4 350 sbc 2:1 belt drive reduction with a 80 inch whirlwind prop powershift hub pitched at 4850

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Re: Lock out timing

Postby SWAMPHUNTER45 » Tue Dec 27, 2016 3:17 pm

Just one of many examples and priced fair.



http://www.speedwaymotors.com/Speedway- ... ,1688.html

Basin_Runner355
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Re: Lock out timing

Postby Basin_Runner355 » Tue Dec 27, 2016 3:48 pm

Which msd would I neee. My motor won't be turning over 5,000 and would be nice to save some money
14ft diamond back zz4 350 sbc 2:1 belt drive reduction with a 80 inch whirlwind prop powershift hub pitched at 4850

Basin_Runner355
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Re: Lock out timing

Postby Basin_Runner355 » Tue Dec 27, 2016 4:03 pm

I don't wanna add power that's not gonna be reliable if that makes sense
14ft diamond back zz4 350 sbc 2:1 belt drive reduction with a 80 inch whirlwind prop powershift hub pitched at 4850

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glades cat
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Re: Lock out timing

Postby glades cat » Tue Dec 27, 2016 6:40 pm

Forget the letters, MSD. Look for GM HEI.
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Duff0113
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Re: Lock out timing

Postby Duff0113 » Tue Dec 27, 2016 7:00 pm

I run a 355 sbc, edelbrock torker 2 intake, edelbrock 600 carb with a 1" spacer and iron heads. I had a worn out distributer that was running great on idle... anything off idle and it dropped the number one cylinder fire until it returned to idle. I purchased one from recommendation of a friend off of amazon since I had amazon prime and it was free One Day delivery. Total cost was $49 for a complete billet distributer and 65k volt coil. I plugged the vacuum advance. I put the lightest springs in from a curve kit I got at advance auto and the thing runs like a champ now. I too was going to purchase an msd but this thing is quite comparable to them for way less cost.

Basin_Runner355
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Re: Lock out timing

Postby Basin_Runner355 » Tue Dec 27, 2016 8:10 pm

Thanx I'll look them Up my mechanic told me that the one I have the timing is jumping around
14ft diamond back zz4 350 sbc 2:1 belt drive reduction with a 80 inch whirlwind prop powershift hub pitched at 4850

Basin_Runner355
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Re: Lock out timing

Postby Basin_Runner355 » Tue Dec 27, 2016 8:19 pm

Would this be the one I need
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14ft diamond back zz4 350 sbc 2:1 belt drive reduction with a 80 inch whirlwind prop powershift hub pitched at 4850

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406 JAMIE
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Re: Lock out timing

Postby 406 JAMIE » Tue Dec 27, 2016 8:38 pm

that will work sir. :thumbleft: :rebel:
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Re: Lock out timing

Postby SWAMPHUNTER45 » Tue Dec 27, 2016 10:03 pm

You would be paying more $ than you need to there are options that provide the same part at half the price.

Like the guy just posted he paid $50 and got a great billet unit. MSD means nothing in this case. Don't waste your money. I personally have spent $ chasing a MSD GM HEI and in the end the cheap module that came with the aftermarket was found to work best. Right now 90% of this stuff comes from the same factories in China.

Basin_Runner355
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Re: Lock out timing

Postby Basin_Runner355 » Wed Dec 28, 2016 6:33 am

My thing is I like to go with good quality parts cause when a airboat breaks down where we at you in a bind. So I'm just trying to get best quality parts and msd has a good reputation I was told by few ppl in the airboat world. What ever part will do get the next best one and you should be good
14ft diamond back zz4 350 sbc 2:1 belt drive reduction with a 80 inch whirlwind prop powershift hub pitched at 4850

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Re: Lock out timing

Postby SWAMPHUNTER45 » Wed Dec 28, 2016 8:55 am

It's all Chinese for twice the price you get a Sticker on the side and a pretty box.

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406 JAMIE
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Re: Lock out timing

Postby 406 JAMIE » Wed Dec 28, 2016 9:28 am

X 2 .Swamphunter has it wright about MSD those parts r made all same place but just different box and label.a good GM HEI distr and if u want to up grade it throw a good hotter spark coil in ur HEI distr and good.but from what im reading ur dead set on a MSD so if u have money to throw at it go for it but like said before from others ur wasting ur money.and throw that whole lick out idea away if u have a race motor thats maybe one thing but on ur motor i would go with what we r suggesting. :thumbleft: :rebel: have a blessed day y all besafe. :rebel:
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Re: Lock out timing

Postby One Eyed Gator » Wed Dec 28, 2016 9:59 am

I ran a MSD box, MSD high vibration coil and, MSD dist on my dd caddy for 8 years. It had a little better throttle response, started a little easier, but certainly didn't help me add any pitch to my prop. I would not have spent the money if I had not picked it up in the bulk caddy deal.

If I was looking at aftermarket HEI dist as an option I would look at Daves Unified Ignitions (DUI).

I also agree with Deano, I ran no vacuum advance and a mech curve kit with lightest spring.

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Re: Lock out timing

Postby Duff0113 » Wed Dec 28, 2016 10:54 am

I've built race setups in many of my drag cars I've had and cannot tell a difference in the unit I got off amazon and the msd unit I ran in my mustang other than price. I carry my old distributed in the box on my truck just in case anyways.
Last edited by Duff0113 on Wed Dec 28, 2016 11:05 am, edited 1 time in total.

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Re: Lock out timing

Postby Duff0113 » Wed Dec 28, 2016 11:03 am

Here's the one I picked up
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Re: Lock out timing

Postby SWAMPHUNTER45 » Wed Dec 28, 2016 11:23 am

I have tested several of these no name Chinese made billet distributors and their accessories. Four to be exact and every one of them came with a brass contact cap and rotor. The coils are advertised as 55k to 65k volt units and include a "high performance" control module. I have swapped modules, changed coils and played around with them. In my experience the value priced billet distributor, cap, rotor, coil and module were all great products. They ship in a plain white box which the brand name companies then insert into a fancy colorful box with their name on it after inspecting the item and putting their decal on the base. The ones I have seen you cant tell a difference.

The only negative I have observed was in setting the custom advance curve to Mr. Branches liking it required us to clean up with a small hand grinder the inside so the weights had a bit more room. The price savings between Accel and the unit I purchased off Ebay was over $200 and the Accel did not include a coil! If your not running up over 6,000 rpm the units are a real good value. Remember to verify any distributor has the correct type material on its gear to match your camshaft. We replace all roller cam engine distributor gears with the CompCams composite unit. The CompCam composite gear is compatible with all types of camshafts.


Again not all camshafts and distributor gears are compatible....be alert to this

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Re: Lock out timing

Postby SWAMPHUNTER45 » Wed Dec 28, 2016 11:24 am

Duff0113 wrote:Here's the one I picked up


Looks like an exact copy of the Accel unit to me!

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Re: Lock out timing

Postby jeepinocala1111 » Wed Dec 28, 2016 11:38 am

I run an msd street fire with no advance it works fine but I believe you need an aggressive cam for it to give any benefit. Call MSD I am sure they will help out. As for them being the same I do not know if I would agree they are a good Name brand that has never let me down.


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