Fuel pump stopping - enough already

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SWAMPHUNTER45
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Re: Fuel pump stopping - enough already

Postby SWAMPHUNTER45 » Tue May 26, 2015 9:25 pm

X2 avoid Marpac grey line assemblies they are junk.
You buy one for an outboard, think your good but 1/2 of them something goes wrong from the primer to he liner.
Will drive you crazy not to mention a week outside and they get stiff as hell.

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Prototype
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Re: Fuel pump stopping - enough already

Postby Prototype » Tue May 26, 2015 9:48 pm

Hog Guts wrote:Alright... On my second fuel pump after first one stopped. Then new one stopped and I was way out there. Decided to take it apart that time. Pulled parts out out back together then it worked. I put original fuel pump back in boat because at that point figured I could fix it too if needed. On way out today motor cuts off no fuel and fuel pump quiet again. Seriously?? So I take the original one apart and it full of black crap which I have a photo of and I had my gopro today so have a good video of it being taken apart as well. But I want to know what this cramp that keeps blocking the screen and stopping the fuel pump from working. New tank, new hoses, new pumps etc have no idea where all this crap is coming from. Hamant built the tank I wouldn't think it came with all this stuff inside new but that's about my only guess right now since there is shiny aluminum slivers in there mixed in with the black stuff. Ran magnet over it and it's not sticking.

Any clues?
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From your pics I'd say you have a fairly new vane pump and a problem with cutting hose with a grinder and pre/post filter? Let me guess that either its a remote fill tank with the hose trimmed a few times or the pump has no pre filter? Thats a lot of rubber frags how ever caught that should not be present!

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Re: Fuel pump stopping - enough already

Postby Hog Guts » Tue May 26, 2015 10:48 pm

Ok, now that I figured out how the video works, here is a much better idea of what I saw inside my fuel pump.... I have to admit I was surprised....

FYI - my first pic here with the paper towel was the newer fuel pump... this video was from the original fuel pump I took apart to replace the new one the other day and it had more time on it which is why it was worse I recon. And those things that looks like rubber chunks are not rubber chunks - they are fine dust like the rest of it that is just caked together. If I grabbed a chunk and rubbed it in my fingers it just turned to fine powder like dust.


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glades cat
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Re: Fuel pump stopping - enough already

Postby glades cat » Wed May 27, 2015 8:18 am

Look for Type A1 marine fuel hose (Specification 4219M). It is a Nitrile hose approved for up to 10% Ethanol, Methanol & Ethers. Gates Marine Master fuel line 40 is made in the USA and is good stuff.
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Re: Fuel pump stopping - enough already

Postby SWAMPHUNTER45 » Wed May 27, 2015 8:24 am

Fyi checked mine last night it says Made USA and has a SAE number on it.
One observation that I have made is my non-oxygenated fuel appears to change color and get dark. I first noticed this running pump gas a few weeks back and attributed it to alcohol but since then Mr Branch and I drained the tank and refilled with Sunoco standard. So when we tapped the line to pump the old fuel out we saw some very discolored fuel for the first second or two until the line cleared and the gas from the tank pushed out. I dont like this and even though my lines appear to be a better quality I have concerns it is going to be an issue.

Think I will hunt up that Gates hose Glades has suggested!
Last edited by SWAMPHUNTER45 on Wed May 27, 2015 8:34 am, edited 1 time in total.


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glades cat
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Re: Fuel pump stopping - enough already

Postby glades cat » Wed May 27, 2015 8:29 am

This is the hose you have in the picture:

Standard Fuel Line Hose - SAE 30R7
• No longer used by the OEMs due to high permeation level: 37 times 30R9
• Known as a general purpose hose for standard fuel and low oil pressure
applications up to 35 psi in 3/8” and 50 psi in 5/16”; best used as PVC and EEC
hose (vapors)
• Not recommended for 1985 and newer vehicles

This is the newer hose:
(MPI) Multi-Purpose Fuel and Injection Hose- SAE 30R9
• Exceeds SAE 30R13 Standard
• Qualified for
o Gasoline
o Diesel
o Bio-dieselandblends o Ethanolandblends
o Methanolandblends
• Fluoroelastomer (FKM) tube resists permeation and deterioration caused by fuel additives
• Meets new California CARB standard for off road vehicles
• Recommended for 1985 and newer vehicles
• Reinforced to handle pressures up to 180 psi
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Re: Fuel pump stopping - enough already

Postby SWAMPHUNTER45 » Wed May 27, 2015 8:38 am

So Glades do you think that is why I am seeing that dark color change to the fuel that sits in the lines?

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glades cat
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Re: Fuel pump stopping - enough already

Postby glades cat » Wed May 27, 2015 9:15 am

The chemical compatibility of rubber is extremely important as the rubber can degrade if is not compatible with the product it comes into contact with.
It seems your hoses are degrading and leaching rubber compounds into the fuel. Don't use heater, vacuum or vapor hose. I've had good results with the Type A1 marine hose.
The most Gasoline-resistant rubber is Viton, Fluoroelastomer (FKM). The 30R9 hose is FKM. It's more expensive and better than Nitrile. 30R10 is rated to be submersible in fuel.
When you go to buy hose, look up the rating and you'll see what it's made for. A marine supply shop should have the good hose.
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Re: Fuel pump stopping - enough already

Postby SWAMPHUNTER45 » Wed May 27, 2015 9:35 am

10-4

Mine is fuel rated but must be a substandard composition.

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Re: Fuel pump stopping - enough already

Postby gblack15 » Wed May 27, 2015 1:20 pm

nomad41 wrote:Looks like the insides from your fuel hose. Depending on the type of fuel hose your using this great gas we buy eats it up. You should be using only type A USCG approved fuel hose. Cost a little more but it is better.




Yep your hose is falling apart. Thanks to ethanol......

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Re: Fuel pump stopping - enough already

Postby kwanjangnihm » Wed May 27, 2015 3:37 pm

good post & info guys!!

I bought 10' of this hose at tractor supply last week and was going to swap out the hoses on my boat this weekend. Gonna rethink it now!

:rebel:

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Re: Fuel pump stopping - enough already

Postby scrambletown » Wed May 27, 2015 4:00 pm

type a1 sae j1527/iso 7840
cost guard approved fuel line
anderson pump & process
good year
855-530-4673
$3.52 per foot.
also available in some part-store's
little cheaper
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Re: Fuel pump stopping - enough already

Postby Hog Guts » Sat May 30, 2015 2:57 pm

I called the airport to see if I could get fuel hose from their shop because I figured they don't use junk there and it works. But they were closed so I went to auto parts store they only had junk. Then went to west marine bought the best they had may not be the finest but should do. Pic of what I bought included. I also cut the assumed bad hose I'm replacing to look at the inside. It looked perfect to me? Included pic of that too. Replaced water fuel separator and added two inline additional small filters one as soon as it comes out of the tank and another right before it hit the carb. New hose, three inline filters and a fuel pump I just cleaned internally. Hoping I don't have that problem again. Also added a fuel pump, another online filter and some hose and clamps to my bow "get me home" kit. The only other thing I think it could have been is the powder coat dust got inside the tank somehow and it's all new so I should be done with that soon enough at least now I can see the fuel in the first inline filter before it hits the fuel pump screen. Thanks for all the info.
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Re: Fuel pump stopping - enough already

Postby SWAMPHUNTER45 » Sat May 30, 2015 3:17 pm

I run the same fiter set up and with that crap hose my fuel turns black in the line if it sits more than a day or two.

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Re: Fuel pump stopping - enough already

Postby SWAMPHUNTER45 » Sat May 30, 2015 3:17 pm

I run the same fiter set up and with that crap hose my fuel turns black in the line if it sits more than a day or two.

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Re: Fuel pump stopping - enough already

Postby hdsadey » Sat May 30, 2015 6:58 pm

Am I the only one that noticed he's running AV GAS? AV Gas doesn't have ethanol! They can't afford airplanes to fall out of the sky with that crap in the tank. Ethanol resistant fuel hose in the automotive world will have Green lettering. It's formulated to resist the ethanol from pulling the natural oils found in regular fuel line. In turn causing the inside of the hose to "dry" out so to speak and become brittle. I run a musclecar and hotrod shop and we are constantly changing fuel hose on carbureted cars for this reason. I would venture to say there's crap in the tank that wasn't cleaned out when fabbed. If there wasn't a problem before and the only think that changed was the tank, I'd start there first. Put a clear filter before pump right at tank and it should tell you whether it's coming out of it or down the line. Just my .02.
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Re: Fuel pump stopping - enough already

Postby hdsadey » Sat May 30, 2015 7:02 pm

BTW marine engines are not required to run ethanol fuel like automobiles. Most boats aren't equipped to use ethanol so marine fuel hose is most likely not ethanol resistant unless clearly stated.
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Re: Fuel pump stopping - enough already

Postby pontoon outlaw » Sat May 30, 2015 9:35 pm

:slap: just don't get it? with the fuel turning black??? mine sits for a week at a time and the fuel stays clear :scratch: 93 octane, with 4 gallons of AV Gas mixed in :thumbleft:

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Re: Fuel pump stopping - enough already

Postby SWAMPHUNTER45 » Sat May 30, 2015 9:50 pm

Sunoco Rec fuel blended with Sunoco non oxygenated 110 octane standard.
Buddy and I drained the tank together, I am ordering that top shelf hose.

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Re: Fuel pump stopping - enough already

Postby terrible ted » Sun May 31, 2015 7:31 pm

hdsadey wrote:BTW marine engines are not required to run ethanol fuel like automobiles. Most boats aren't equipped to use ethanol so marine fuel hose is most likely not ethanol resistant unless clearly stated.



Most boats run ethanol. It was a major issue for boat when this fuel came out. Boaters spent allot money equipping there boat to run this crap.
IT did a number on removing varnish from boat tanks and clogging fuel systems. For a few years almost no one had easy access for none ethanol. No buying fuel on the water is not easy access. Now with race tracks carry none e its better
Last edited by terrible ted on Sun May 31, 2015 7:54 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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Re: Fuel pump stopping - enough already

Postby terrible ted » Sun May 31, 2015 7:53 pm

Hog Guts wrote:I use avgas and want the best hose everyone agrees on. Oh never mind nobody ever agrees


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I run avgas thru the blue line (suppose to ethanol approved hose) my bud runs pump & av gas his black fuel line collapsed today. Now I always put a filter before the fuel pump.

On my two stroke e 10 sucks really really sucks. fuel econ dropped about 40 percent.

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Re: Fuel pump stopping - enough already

Postby hdsadey » Sun May 31, 2015 8:49 pm

I do understand that most boats run ethanol simply cause it's readily available as fuel at any gas station. The ease of pulling up to the pump is hard to resist. I originally ran Rec 90 in my Donzi but a couple of times on the way to the ramp they were out forcing me to use ethanol or go home. Left it in there over the winter and it ate the regulator in the Carter marine 7 psi pump. What a pain when the pump ran wide open flooding the carb. Garbage fuel! State of Florida specifies that boats aren't required to run ethanol by law like cars. Most of us are probably just lazy. I know I am! Now that being said my airboat runs ethanol with no problem, go figure?
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Re: Fuel pump stopping - enough already

Postby scrambletown » Wed Jun 10, 2015 2:32 pm

just got my order 20 ft. of type-a1-sae-j1527/iso7840 3/8..
$3.81 a foot..
this thread opened my eye's. and maybee a bad break-down.
:thumbleft: :thumbleft: :thumbleft: :thumbleft: :thumbleft: :thumbleft:
and I use rec. fuel in all my gas engines rec.90. weed eater's chain-saws my truck.
most everything else I own is diesel.
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Re: Fuel pump stopping - enough already

Postby getitdone » Wed Jun 10, 2015 7:13 pm

You all got me thinking also, I bought this hose from Jegs http://www.jegs.com/i/JEGS+Performance+ ... 1/10002/-1 hope it don't collapse or cause problems. What do you think? I run avgas 99.925% of the time...
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Re: Fuel pump stopping - enough already

Postby scrambletown » Wed Jun 10, 2015 8:32 pm

I won't use anything but cost-guard approved hose after this thread.
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