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Airboating rights

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Me and my girls
bolt stuck in cage
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Sitting at the shelter on the Econ River
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Anonymous

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I hate too say this but I’m curious to what everyone thinks. I have lived in Brevard county my entire life. I have seen every single outdoor right of mine disappear. Boating and skiing on the Indian and Banana river, Dirt biking, jet skiing, target shooting and any other outdoor activity. It seams like the majority of our population wants everyone to stay inside and play on the computer or watch TV. Each of my above mentioned rights were taken away by new resident’s of Florida who move next to something that has existed for decades before their arrival. Then these new residents have the county commissioners take away our rights to appease them. I have been to several of these meetings over the last 20 years or so. The retires and developers always win and they always play the environmental card. My question is how much longer do you think it will be legal to operate an airboat in Florida? 5, 10 or 15 years. I pray at least 10. They are starting step one now. I hope I’m wrong and a muffler law will appease the powers and give us decades of airboating. The proof for me will be if a new type of complaint is started about airboats after the muffler laws are passed. If they start a new angle I will fight to the end so my daughter can see and understand the real Florida she is three now and thank god I can’t keep her in the house and she hates TV.


Waterthunder,
One of three remaining Florida natives.
 
WT, it is the same here in north Idaho we have a vary large influx of people from a large state to the south (CA) and they Are building large home around many of our lakes (and are complaning about the earlly morning noise) and also the people who do not have airboats complain that airboats have an unfair hunting advantage So unfoutanly the writting is probably on the wall for us in the northwest also. We have also lost jet skis on some lakes and our atv ridding is going to be limited to the roads were auto can drive also, and they are trying to keep the snowmobiles on the roads only also. I guess I am going to have to be a outlaw because, I hate video games and the only tv I watch is the outdoorlife channel and the outdoor channel.
 
Waterthunder

I totaly agree with you my family has been in Palm Beach County since the early 1870's my Great Grand Father gave Palm Beach it's name and
my family's Business is the oldest Business in Palm Beach county started
in 1893,any way enough of the history lesson.I now live in Georgia and it was not untill I got my Airboat last year that it hit me what my brother had been telling me about what all the inplants from other states have been doing to Palm Beach co all in the name of the Environment.
my family had about 500 acres in Jupiter ,part of which was on both sides
of the Loxahatchee river and low and behold the the state environmental
folks decided that they did not want any one to own land on the river so they took it from my family after owning it for well over 100 years then
Palm Beach County came along and said that we could not hunt or shoot
on the rest of our land unless the inspected it and deemed it a hunting or shooting area and now I am like you it just seem's like they don't want any one to be able to enjoy the out doors and I wonder what is next.
The State of Georgia just put into there Constatution that it is now a right to hunt and fish in the State so this does not get taken away may be Florida needs to do that so it does not get taken away by tree huggers.
 
Only a matter of time before airboats are banned. I am in Alachua County and there is a serious move to ban airboats underway now.

To those airboaters that continue to run wide open in idle only areas, llike Cross Creek, one day in the not too distant future, if they continue. the idle only sign will also say "NO AIRBOATS"

Only thing I can say is to enjoy it while we can.
 
You can monitor how long us air boaters will have rights by what the high dollar wealthy areas do. They have the lawyers and will take away our rights first. Then it’s all down hill from there. Sniper I’m enraged by what happened to your families property. In Brevard they are forcing people to buy land on the river and then turn it over to the county and state in order to develop property they already own. This is probably what happened to your families property. Let’s see the state takes away your land at a minimum price then forces other people to purchase it so they can build on their existing property. Remember just because you paid for your property and pay taxes on it for as long as you own it. You never truly own it the state and only the state can decide what you do with your property. I’m very angry with the county right now they have been running me in circles for over two years because I want to add a garage to my one acre homestead near the St Johns. Trust me I know every person in the environmental resources department. What’s funny is everyone in that department I have personally met has lived in Florida for less than five years but can spend hours explaining the eco system of the St Johns and Indian River to me. Even though they all told me they have never been on them.
 
Waterthunder

What chaped me the most was the state was affraid we were going to build on the land by the river or sell it to a developer and my Dad even tried to get them let us keep it with the agreement that we would not build on it or sell it to anyone so our family could still enjoy the land and they told us that it was going to become a protected enviroment and that no one was going to be able to go on it but State wild life officers and the are doing this all over Palm Beach county.
they are fencing off the woods all over the County and you can not Hunt,fish or drive any moterized transportation on it and a lot of it you Can't even
walk on.
 
I lived in Indian River City in the 60's and used to airboat on the St Johns in that area. I rarely saw another boat of any kind out on the river. There are a lot of airboats now and noise complaints are coming from areas where airboats probably should not operate, like Lake Weir which is populated. The boats are generally bigger and louder now.

The State probably views airboating as a privilege and not a right. Whether we keep it or not depends on how much we want it. There is a lot that could be done to protect it. If we don't use our heads the restrictions will come.

I talked to an employee of the Fish Wild Life commission today, he said the new proposed noise rules he has seen are so restrictive that no airboat could meet them.

Jim
 
Brings to mind an old cartoon of the Pogo series. Ol' Possum was flummoxed over something and he looked up to say, "I have seen the enemy and he is us."

A couple of examples:

Two weks ago, while showing a fellow from Kentucky who is a charter client and who just bought a loaded Diamondback; we were standing at the Panavista Dock when an airboat ran by in the lake that actually hurt our ears. An hour later, this fellow comes by to talk airboats and he was bragging about turning his Warp 3,300 rpm - to "get on top of his cam". No amount of discussion would convince him that more bite and 2,750 rpm was what his Lycoming called for. The next day, two dozen Lake Panasoffkee residents came to that marina to complain about that ONE boat.

Last Saturday, 40 airboaters went on a trailride from the Brevard County Airboat and Powerboat Clubhouse. All were muffled to one extent or another and none were obnoxious. There were breathtaking airboats there. One from Airboat Pros with at 383 Stroker and a boat called Friendly Fire with a tricked out 502 were extremely quiet. All engine manufacturers were represented - aircraft and auto. No complaints.

Today, Harry Young, a Hillsborough County Firefighter, gathered 43 derelict crab traps from the Alafia River in a cooperative effort between Florida Airboat Association and Tampa Bay Watch. On the 43rd trap retrieval, he blew a flex pipe band clamp on the port side header. 350 Chevy / reduction gear - fully muffled instantly became a sprint car in the back yard. Took about 30 seconds for a woman to come out screaming and shaking her fingers at us.

My family settled Horse Creek near what would later become Arcadia before the turn of the century. My children are 5th generation Crackers. My son has a truck that will run in 4 feet of water and a boat that will run across dry ground easily. We are Rednecks, local yocals natives and we love this place - the way God ment it to be.

We are the minority.
 
I was out there and had the loudest boat out there and now want to put mufflers on it so maybe it will run better
 
Outsiders that done appreciate what was there before them is what scares me. That is why I tell everyone that Louisiana is the worst place in the world. Keep the outsiders out. He He He I feel for you guys in Florida.

Ol' Possum in the cartoon was partly right. "I have seen the enemy and he is us." That is so true, lots of us grew up hunting and fishing and boating, but boy there are lots out there that didn't. When someone runs through no wake zones or full bore out of a residential area, they become the worst problem. Heck I have even seen boat get prop blasted really bad, there is just no excuse for that, and then those people are against us as well.

Times are changing - whether we like it or not, just a part of this sad world today. But if we band together sometimes we might be able to stop or prevent some of the scarest things.

Lots of the rivers out west are restricting the jet boats HP and decibes because they run full bore up and down the river with no mufflers. Drinking and laughing about it. (Hey I would probably be doing the same).

Not letting hunting be allowed, that is crazy, not even shotgun hunting. There is a organization called Delta Waterfowl I joined a while back. They claim they take on fights for outdoorsmen all over the North American Continent. Have helped fight for trapping and a few others outdoor activities. If they are trying to stop hunting completely in those areas, you might want to call or check into them. They pole axed the anti fur people hard in Canada a short while back. They mainly focus on Ducks but realize that all outdoorsmen had better circle the wagons for each other or will be all lose one at a time.
 
Another note: I hate it when the resource departments start talking about habitat impacts airboats make. All of the state management areas and most of the federal refuges have a 10HP MAXIMUM RESTRICTION on the airboats. The rest of them don't allow them at all. Very little other public land like ya'll are bested with in Florida. However all the bays and rivers are state bottoms and allow airboats. The reason they stopped them was because they are noisey and unsafe (He He - that hopped up 40 merc on that 14 foot jon boat doing better than 40 MPH is safe?) but that was the reason.

There are few craft that do less long term harm than airdrives, no props in the water to cut up grass beds that the fish and ducks like. The noise is irritating in some situations prehaps, but heck I had a neighbor that mowed his lawn a 6 AM as well.

But one resource agency did a study a several years ago on the Laguna Madre where all the redhead ducks go. They tried for a few weeks to drive the redheads from that area with their airboats while their plane circle high above. The birds just move way out around them and circled back.

I also know that when the duck disease outbreaks occur out west, they run airboats 24 hours daily to try (TRY) to keep birds from the area. While they reduce the numbers, the don't run them all off.

Ducks, geese, and deer get used to 747s flying right by with little impact.

So don't ever let the resource people play the habitat impact card. It is BS.

However, each year some A-hole gets busted driving flocks of ducks towards guide blinds with clients on the state waters. People read that and think everyone with an airboat does that. I have a friend that had some smart a## drive his airboat right through my buddies decoys while waterfowl hunting and you cannot miss that decoy spread. There is no reason for that stuff and those guys need their nuts cut. We have to be examples.

But my friend, who once owned a plywood hull with a 0 540 Lycoming, is wanting them banned from the bay he now hunts and fishes. Go figure that one out.
 
I've already been hit with the muffler issue. Thanks to county commissioners (like WaterThunder spoke of), Seminole & Volusia County started enforcing their version of Florida statute "327.65 Muffling devices" a couple of years ago. I say "their version" because after my first warning I contacted the FWC & their response, at that time, was that they considered my flex pipe to be adequate for muffling the exhaust.

I installed 6" S.S. bullet mufflers from Classic and it made me madder than fire at first because everyone knows that on a 4 cyl. the majority of the noise comes from the prop.

Since then I've learned to accept the idea of mufflers on my boat, but I think the muffler requirement is just letting the anti-airboaters get their feet in the door to gain a little more strength in their quest to ban airboats. Adding new muffler requirements is like admitting that "yes there is a noise problem with airboats". Once all boats are muffled, they'll come after us with something like "okay now that you've admitted there's a noise issue, guess what, the mufflers haven't solved the problem, so we need more restrictions".

Just my opinion.
 
Rick, you are right. It is a very slippery slope we find ourselves on.

We are a minority and we tend to aggrivate the majority. Every airboat will benefit from mufflers. Will it be enough? Who knows. Will it be a deciding issue if we don't reduce the overall noise of our boats? I am afraid so.

Can we fight an effective campaign? Certainly - it will require a high degree of volunteerism and high press profile for public service projects where only our preferred boat will do the job - like Coastal Cleanups, Lake Cleanups and flood transportation. We need to make aquaintances with those who write and speak the news and views.

It is called public and press relations building and every one of us needs to take on this responsibility.
 
The technology exists to make these boats quieter. We need to make that a priority in the airboat community, probably more than emphasizing the ways to increase horsepower/performance.

We need to advertise that we are making noise reduction a priority.

Add a little lobbying in Tallahassee and we are the good guys in this deal.

If we let the opposition make us look like the bad guys, they will shove new rules down out throats.

My .02,

Jim
 
Well Folks, here is my two cents worth on it. I am a fourth generation florida cracker and have been fishing huntin airboatin all my life. One side of my family was commercial fishermen and the other was dirt farmers. I have watched both parts of my heritage erode away. My daughter has never seen a mullet net letgo or a furrow turned over. she can fish and shoot and drive an airboat pretty good for a young lady. I believe by the time she has kids she will tell them about how she learned to drive an airboat before they all disappeared and maybe show them a few pictures of her dads boat and probably of my guns as well.

I run mufflers and am considering going to a more restrictive muffler just to try and stave it off as long as possible. I probably need to work on the prop noise somehow but gotta study on that one some. maybe more torque less rpms more pitch I dont know so if some of the smart guys read this please respond. I am willing to change to help extend the time line.

Now this is where it get ugly .... I read all the whining here abouts rights taken away, land taken away, this or that taken away and you know what ... no one ever shows up to fight for them, nobody ever bands together and gets a lobbyist in tallahassee to approach the government officials or representatives. BUT if you throw a beer party like the airboat rodeo everybody shows up ... go figure huh.

How many of you know who your state congressman or legislator is ?? how many of you didn't even vote in the last election ?? How many attended the meetings the fwc had on the noise issue ?? yeah I am sure some of you did all these things but I bet the majority did not. Now I am sure I will get blasted here for this but if you don't participate you shoudn't gripe. I posted the proposed statute on several websites and never got one single reply, not one damn email was sent to any state official opposing the law. but there sure was a bunch of whining and fighting about which kind of motor made the most noise and plenty of darts thrown amongst ourselves but none sent to tallahassee, go figure huh.

As for the taking of land well it so happens that florida is one of the only states that paye for their own butt kickin during the condemnation process. It doesn't cost you a single penny to hire a lawyer to represent you against the state. No your not gonna keep your land if the state wants it but you can be paid a bunch of money for it and if you accepted the states first offer well you shoulda called a lawyer who does that kinda work because the state pays him a percentage of the amount over and above their first offer and the state does not deduct his fees from your amount they pay that over and above what they pay you.

The developers and tree huggers win because they play the game. If you dont play dont gripe about the results. Everyone of us will drop a hundred bucks on a can of avgas or race fuel but we wont write a check to have someone fight for us against this kinda crap. Yeah its a shame we have to fight for what we have always taken for granted but that is the reality of it. I am not a lobbyist nor am I an elected official nor do I want to be one but I do know that if you want to win you gotta fight and not fight each other fight the enemy.

If some of you do decide to send emails to state officials pleas try and keep the name callin to a minimum they respond much better to cries for help than to threats. Our heritage is important and most of them understand this. A majority of the elected officials come from old florida families and if we respond in a respectful manner they will give us respect that is due. We won't win everyone of the battles but we might in the war. Or we can keep on whining amongst ourselves and keep on stickin our heads in the hole like an ostrich of course that leaves your butt up in the air where it can get kicked easily

SO WHAT IS IT GONNA BE YA'LL NEED TO DECIDE AND GITTER DONE.
 
MUFFLERS!!!!
I don't know of many light aircraft that do not run some type of mufflers. I have a friend with a Cessna 210, Centurion airplane with a turbocharged 520 Contintental that has mufflers. Another guy has a small deckover airboat with a 180 on it with aircraft pipes and muffler, and sequential fire headers, runs much better with the muffler. I have a 470 with large home made mufflers and a paddle prop. Runs 54 MPH in deep water on a 15 foot boat.
Engines are designed to have some back pressure.

Mufflers and respect for others is the only chance we have.
 
Something that I find hilarious is you can improve low and mid range performance by running a properly tuned exhaust with mufflers. This improves horsepower and torque at low RPM’s more drastically than at any other RPM. Open exhaust will always make more power at high RPM’s over 5,500RPM’s. The funny part is a longer primary tube header along with a muffler will improve low RPM torque and horsepower over just about any other single modification. Mufflers cause back pressure and this will improve performance at low RPM’s when you run a tuned exhaust system with the correct header length engines develop peak power and torque at a lower RPM. This isn’t B.S. it’s common knowledge of any intelligent engine builder or dyno operator. I have been preaching it for years there are those who I talk into running this type exhaust and love it and rave about the throttle response and there are people who always say if it works why ain’t everybody else doing it. I try my best not to deal with followers especially if I’m building them an engine. My favorite quote is “If you do something that has already been done the best you can hope to achieve is that which has already been done�. Don’t make much money that way but you can sure make some horsepower.
 
You should not feel alone with the upcoming restrictions on airboats. This sort of thing has happened all over the country as population grows and expands into areas were they were not. I am from Wyoming and have seen the people from California and the East move to Wyoming to get away ‘from those gangs that are a bad influence on my kids’ or worse “I want to live in the country and have horse� Their kids are now the trouble makers in the local schools. Then they notice we are a bit uncivilized by their standards and start changing things to make their new home more like the area they left. A person gets tired of being looked down on because he is a local. This happens everywhere.

I am now one of those recent transplants to Florida and have a house on a cannel to a lake. From my property I can often hear airboats but am not close enough to the traffic to be bothered. Besides, I like hotrods and engines and may want one myself someday. A friend has a house right on the main channel. When airboats idle by like they should, it is noticeable in the house but not obnoxious. Then one of them will come by with his foot in the carburetor and shake the house and make it impossible to hear anything but a too loud engine. This makes enemies fast. I was out with another neighbor in his airboat when an airboat entered a no wake cannel running as fast as he could. My driver entered at idle speed and was telling me that kind of driving is what is causing airboats to have problems. We soon pasted a covered dock with a boat in it that had been lifted up by a wake and caught on the dock frame. Part of the boat was being held out of the water. I don’t think that owner will think much of air boaters. If they are going to survive, they need to be well muffled and driving with respect for those living nearby. I do not think mufflers are a bad thing, heck even my Harley has the original mufflers on it.

I read the proposed noise ordinance which stated 90dbs at 50 feet. There is no speed or RPM listed for the test so idle/no wake speed would be a good choice if a test is requested of you. Geared propeller re-drives may be a whole new problem to get quieted.
Sorry for butting in
Thanks for listening
Wilson
 
Wilson

You are right and it is good to hear from some one who is on the out side looking in.I am Law Enforcement Officer and I dearly love Airboats and I do agree that a lot of this is brought on by the wrong kind of behaveure
and some is brought on by folks that like to play the environmental card
the bottem line is if we are going to be able to continue doing the things we love like airboating some of us need to think a lttle more before we act
and pissing folks off is not the way to do it.
 
I know that New Mexico is an odd place to own much less operate an airboat but I want to comment because I am sure of a similar situation here. I have been opearating my boat here since late October and already it has drawn a barrage of critisism. It won't be long before I am forced to modify and then stop my airboating. Probably just as quickly as I started it. I am up too early, my boat is too loud and I scare the pretty little birds everyone like to watch (whenever they wake up). This battle should not last too long as I will be alone against the NM Game and Fish and the Parks Department. I guess I will be able to look back and say it was fun and boy did I kill some ducks!
 
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