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recommended oil for 0470 gpu


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djbeagle
Southern Airboat Member


Joined: 16 Feb 2005
Posts: 1

Posted: Wed Feb 16, 2005 10:50 pm Post subject: recommended oil for 0470 gpu
I am a newbie to the 0470. I was wondering what is recommended for oil in this engine. Also I read a post somewhere not to put in the recommended amount of twelve quarts. The article stated to use something like nine to ten quarts..

Any and all info. greatly appreciated..

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harvey
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Joined: 21 Nov 2004
Posts: 45
Location: georgia
Posted: Thu Feb 17, 2005 8:11 am Post subject:
At the advice of a research engineer I broke in with 50 wt. Aero shell. He said never break in with a multi grade. I talked with a Shell tech guy--- he said break in with the multi was fine---it even says it on their bottle. I took my friends advise after a mind boggling explanation that sure sounded good to me. I always changed at 20 hrs. and switched to multi after the rings seated and there was no more oil on any of my plugs. I ran 10 qts.

Happy Trails

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Guest






Posted: Thu Feb 17, 2005 2:01 pm Post subject:
On my O470 I use the 100 weight aero shell, also only 10 qts.
Any more it just pukes it out............

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most people use that airshell oil that discount sells or you can buy it a sams buy the case, at least here in melbourne
 
Not too start a debate but the straight 50w and 60w Valvoline is an ashless oil. All the Auto Zones and Discounts carry it. It's also around $1.45 per quart.
 
Continental reccommends oils that meet this spec:

Teledyne Continental Material Specification MHS-24B


The oils that comply with SAE J-1899 meet this spec.

This is an excerp from a Shell Oil publication that discusses the issue:


"APPLICATION
AeroShell Oils and AeroShell W Oils are intended for use in four-stroke
cycle aircraft reciprocating piston engines. They are not recommended for
use in automotive engines converted for use in aircraft, and in these cases
the conversion shop should be consulted for proper oil recommendations.
The term "ashless dispersant" was given to aviation oils to distinguish them
from straight mineral aircraft piston engine oils. Automotive and heavy duty
truck engine oils contain ashless dispersants and ash-containing detergents.
They were traditionally called detergent oils (some aircraft operators
incorrectly refer to ashless dispersant oils as "detergent oils").
Because of the negative effect of ash on aircraft engine performance, it is
very important that ash-containing oils are NOT used in an aircraft piston
engine.
The reverse is also true. Never use an aircraft piston engine oil in a
modern automobile or heavy duty truck engine.
Due to differences in metallurgy, operating conditions and fuel
specifications, an aircraft oil will not meet all of the automobile/heavy-duty
engine’s requirements. In addition, the aviation oils are not qualified for this
application and their use could result in voiding the warranty and/or
reduction in engine life.
Thus automobile oils MUST NOT be used in aircraft engines which use or
specify SAE J-1899 or J-1966 oils. Similarly aviation oils MUST NOT be
used in automobile engines."

The full article is here:

http://193.113.209.166/aeroshell/aeroshellpeos.pdf

I have never heard this issue discussed until recently. If you do decide to use an automotive oil ( which is formulated to an Automotive Petroleum Institue specification), please keep us informed as to how it works in the long term.

Hey Waterthunder, I am not saying it won't work. I am saying that Shell oil does not recommend it. They make both types of oil.

Jim
 
I built a stroker 220 Gpu about 7 years ago the latest owner say's it still has great oil pressure. The motor only uses 50W Valvoline. Over all these years the only maintenance the motor ever needed was a jug and that was after it was sunk it dropped a seat that's pretty good for a ground power. I know of at least 8 rebuilt 220GPU's that didn't even last 2 years running only Shell 50W. I think 99% of the oil difference is because of all the litigation and certification in aircraft due to the FAA. Most all the heavy detergent oils have disappeared due to environmental concerns. I bet the Aero Shell oil is exactly the same as it was in 1942. To each is own I have had nothing but good results from Valvoline and I’m sure you have had nothing but good results from Aero Shell. I just will not pay $2 or more for a quart of oil unless I absolutely have too.
 
I was hoping waterthunder would come back with that type of information. It is difficult to tell the technical information from the legal disclaimers when you look at this stuff that is available from the manufacturers.

The way we learn is through experimentation.

I called Valvoline, and they do not recommend their oil for aircraft. I suspect that IS a legal position. They are not familiar with aircraft specs.

I suspect we have given this board enough information so they can make some sort of informed decision.

By the way, I think Shell has changed since 1942. I am aware on one change to help Lycoming camshaft life. The motors have even changed a little, don't you think?

Jim
 
I'm no aircraft guy but you must admit the Continental camshaft location is better than the Lycoming’s. I'm sure there is a difference between the oils but it may be too minute for us rednecks to ever see it. Now in an airplane that's the lawyers and FAA domain. I can't begin to imagine the litigation and bureaucracy that would be involved to just change a spark plug. Where I work we do Nuclear grade certified welding and all our pipe welding is B-31.3 certified and after so many welds a weld get’s cut out and tested three different ways. The welds are no better than our standard stuff but the trace ability and required paper work along with the pipe heat treat certifications costs us ten’s of thousands of dollars more per job. That’s all the certifications do for the manufactures is remove liability incase of the event of failure. Can you imagine the crucifixion that would happen if an un-certified oil ended up in an airplane and the plane crashed even if it had nothing to do with the oil if all other procedures were correctly followed some poor mechanic somewhere would be held accountable.
 
Exactly, and thats why the aircraft oil costs more. There is no way for me to tell if the valvoline is worse, the same, or better than the aircraft oil in an aircraft engine. Some of the aircraft oils have a reasonable track record.

The Lycoming cam is in a sort of dry area. The advantage of the Lycoming is weight. I think by your numbers the O540 is about 100 pounds lighter that the 220 GPU. The O360 is another 100 pounds lighter than that. Now you are going to say that your LS1 (including the cooling system) is about the same as the O540 with way more hp, and I think that is cool.

My son who has the hopped up 540 in his plane thinks I should go auto engine.

Jim
 
I have weighed Lycomings on three different occasions all were because of bet’s I had with somebody. Two of the guy’s welched on me. I know there are as many variations of the 0540 as there are airboat hulls. But this is what I have found to be the average weights. All weights include starter, flywheel, mag’s, prop adaptor and headers. A straight valve Lycoming O540 weighs 450Lbs The average O540 angle valve weighs 475Lbs I also weighed a complete 360 in the 180HP configuration and it weighed 352LBS. I also weighed a Continental 520 and ironically it weighed 520LBS. Now the GPU 220 was insanely heavy tilting the scales at 575 LBS with its oil cooler.
 
Waterthunder,

You have put a bunch of good information on this site. The problem with it is that it is all buried in threads with unlikely titles like this one.

Think about writing a review of the stuff about engine weights, prop and gearbox performance and lets see if Rick can put it somewhere where anyone can easily access it. If your test results are not proprietary, I'm sure they would make good reading.

How about it?

Jim
 
No problem at all I would be glad too. Around the end of this month I will be weighing a bunch of different combinations. This will include most aircrafts and a 4.3 V/6 along with one of my 550HP LS-1 motors both car motor weights will include the gearbox.
 
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