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Avgas Question

FrogNutz

Well-known member
When I was home last time I filled my tank up at the same place as always, Wally's in Dundee. I've been buying avgas there for a long time and never had any problems. One day as I was headed to Camp Mack I stopped at Big John's for ice and I noticed that his avgas was about 70 cents more per gallon. I asked him why that was and he replied that his avgas was 100 octane and that Wally's was 80 octane. He said that you can tell when you look at it because his is blue and Wally's is crystal clear. The next time I was at Wally's I asked the guy that runs the place if this was true and he said that he was unaware that they even made 80 octane avgas. I had to admit that I'd never heard of it either. Which one of these guys is jerking my chain?
 
Frog i got the same story . With a price spread as much as there is between the two stores and checking with the airport i think big john is shooting strait....

Besides he ain't burning incense and wearing a towel on his head...
 
I get my 100LL at the Sanford Airport, they handle private and commercial flights. The AVGAS there has a blue color to it.
 
From the Department of Interior Aviation Fuel Manual, there are only two aviation fuels that are color coded. Blue 100LL and Green 100/130. Years ago they used to color 80 red, but not anymore. If the gas is any color other than green or blue it should be laboratory tested before use.

I'm guessing that gas may be 100 octane but not avgas. It could just be some of Iowa's Ethanol junk. If it is ethanol it may go in the tank at 100 0ctane and be down to below 80 by the end of a trip. The stuff is just bad news.
 
p2":3d6jgvlo said:
Besides he ain't burning incense and wearing a towel on his head...
LOL!!! I know what ya mean.
But Wally's is very close to my house and I usually put in at Hatchineha. Besides, I, along with a thousand other airboaters have been buying avgas there for years with no problems. I just hate to drive all the way out to Big John's and pay extra if it's the same stuff. But Wally's fuel is crystal clear and that makes me suspicious that I'm not really getting 100LL. Also I noticed that it doesn't say 100LL anywhere on his pumps or signs. It just says Avgas and I thought that all avgas was 100LL.
 
I buy my fuel from wallys also and it has always been blue.Put it in a clear container next time and I bet its blue.
 
Aviation Gasoline

Aircraft piston engines operate using the same basic principles as spark ignition engines of cars, but they have a much higher performance requirement. Aircraft engines normally run at 55% power or more, where as car engines run at 30% or lower. The design of the engine is different in terms of strength: think of bearings, crankshaft etc, etc.

Avgas is gasoline fuel developed for reciprocating piston engined aircraft. Common additives to Avgas include alkyl-lead anti-knock additives, metal deactivators, color dyes, oxidation inhibitors, corrosion inhibitors, icing inhibitors, and static dissipaters. It is very volatile and extremely flammable at normal operating temperatures. Proper and safe handling of this product is therefore of the highest importance. Avgas grades are defined by their octane rating. Two ratings are applied to aviation gasolines (the lean- and the rich mixture rating) resulting in a multiple numbers e.g. Avgas 100/130 (lean mixture is 100 and the rich mixture is 130).

Avgas types
Avgas 100, high lead - colored green
The standard high lead (1 gr/liter) high octane fuel for aviation piston engines. There are two specifications for Avgas 100. The ASTM D 910 and UK DEF STAN 91-90. These are almost the same but have some differences in antioxidant content, oxidation stability requirements and lead content.

Avgas 100LL, low lead - colored blue
Low lead version of Avgas 100. Still containing about 0.5 gr lead per litre of fuel, low lead is a relative term. This grade is listed in the same specifications as Avgas 100, ASTM D 910 and UK DEF STAN 91-90.

Avgas 82 UL, unleaded - colored purple
A relatively new grade targeted at the low compression ratio engines not needing high octane Avgas 100(LL) and designed to run on unleaded fuel (0,1 gr/liter).

The octane rating can be increased beyond the simple proportion of octane to heptane by adding anti-knock agents, which delay the onset of detonation. Until recently, the most important such additive, for both automotive and aviation use, was tetra-ethyl lead (TEL). It's found in aviation fuels in the following proportions:

Fuel grade Color Lead / Gallon
80/87 Red 0.5 mL
100LL Blue 1.2 - 2.0 mL
100/130 Green 3.0 - 4.0 mL
115/145 Purple 4.6 mL
 
:thumbup:
HPIM0292.JPG
 
caution!!!! inhaling aviation fuel will make your beard grow long and cray and may turn your ass to candy :D
 
Tony480":2caf9d8o said:
I buy my fuel from wallys also and it has always been blue.Put it in a clear container next time and I bet its blue.
I just had a brand new fuel tank made for my boat with clear tubes running down both sides. Believe me when I tell you that the fuel I got from Wally's was crystal clear. Not even a tinge of blue. I've been around aircraft enough to know what the light blue color looks like in 100LL. I never noticed this before because my old fuel tanks all had guages. The tubes are brand new and not discolored in the least. I bought fuel there twice while I was home and both times it was crystal clear. If his fuel was blue in the past, or if it's blue today, I cannot say. But it was clear in April.

Somebody on this site has a can of it in their garage and can surely verify one way or the other.

HPIM0292_edited-2.jpg
 
mixing any other fuel with avgas will turn it clear...at least this has been my observation!
 
I have been getting fuel there for years.I have 5. 30 gallon clear drums I pick it up in and it is always blue.And I am down there at least twice a month.And I know it smells like avgas to.
 
Unless they get it from somewhere new its ok. I've run lots of tanks of Wally's stuff with nary a problem. My temp always stayed low and I could always tell when I ran the pump gas.

I figured Big John's was higher because he had to buy it himself and Wally's splits the shipping cost with the Citgo on Lake Shipp. I think they're both run buy the same guys ever since Pat's death.
 
I agree, BPS. I've run it for years with absolutely no problems as well. It was just funny to me that I had put my new tank in with clear sites and as I was filling it up for the first time I was struck by the fact that the fuel didn't have a blue color to it. I thought it was odd but figured there was a simple explanation since I've never had an problems running it and it smelled like avgas. The very next day I'm headed to Camp Mack, I stop at Big John's and inquire about the price difference and he makes the comment about Wally's fuel being 80 octane and clear color. Mind you, I never said a word to him about what I had noticed the previous day. I figured "this guy's blowing smoke up my skirt because he's gouging people on the cost of fuel".

I ran all day and had no problems. The following weekend I returned to Wally's to fill up again and I asked the guy about it expecting to hear him say that Big John was full of crap. Instead, the guy looks right at me and shrugs his shoulders and said " I wasn't even aware that they made 80 octane". At that point I noticed that nowhere does it say 100LL anywhere that I could see around his store. After that I started wondering.

Speaking of Pat, was that case ever solved?
 
No I don't think they've found the punks yet.

I really can't answer you about the color thing. Honestly I never paid much attention to that. I like the guys at Wally's and I really like Big John. I spent more at John's most recently than at Wally's....just because of the Port being closed down than anything else.

Adam
 
80 octane av fuel very rare (maybe not available) now and it is red. 100LL is plentiful and it is very light blue. The Av fuel is supposed to turn clear if other fuel is mixed with it.

I agree with the poster that said to put some in a clear glass container and check it. It does have a distinctive smell.

jim
 
Frog i guess you always can take a sample and send it off like big Jim did.
He told me that was what he did...
 
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