Coast Guard may have say in Toho night airboat ban

[rick]

An Osceola County lawyer erred when she said the feds had no jurisdiction.

Kumari Kelly | Sentinel Staff Writer
May 15, 2008

KISSIMMEE - Osceola County may have stepped on more than alligator hunters' prime time on West Lake Tohopekaliga and East Lake Toho with a recent ordinance that bans airboats during night-time hours: They might have inadvertently stepped on U.S. Coast Guard rules.

The most recent ordinance removed an exception made for alligator hunters who prefer the boats during alligator season. Residents have complained about the noise and the difficulty getting a good night's sleep when the boats are on the water.

At the April 28 Osceola County Commission meeting, Assistant County Attorney Sherry Hopkins told commissioners the county had checked with the Coast Guard on whether the two lakes were considered navigable bodies of water when they passed the first ordinance. "And they are not," she said in the meeting.

She would not comment when the Sentinel contacted her for this story.

The U.S. Coast Guard, however, says otherwise.

"Yes, East and Lake Toho are considered navigable waterways under the federal government. The Coast Guard does have jurisdiction," said U.S. Coast Guard Lt. Walter Hoppe of the Port Canaveral Marine Safety Detachment. "I'm not a lawyer, but in my mind, they may have a problem...

Full story: http://www.orlandosentinel.com/news/local/osceola/orl-oairboat1508may15,0,9472.story?track=rss

Rick

 

[Olf Art]

Thanks, Rick! This is an important case for a lot of reasons.

We may have had non-desrimination in a lot of places all along and not been aware of it. I'm hoping the Osceola Commisioners will be shown as acting outside their authority, and you can bet the outcome of this is going to set an important precedent for other commisions.

In my opinion we really need to win this one.

 

[SwampMatt]

U.S. Coast Guard Lt. Walter Hoppe of the Port Canaveral Marine Safety Detachment...said the Coast Guard, however, isn't in the business of policing what the county does or doesn't do and that a legal challenge by another party would need to force the issue.

later in the article....

Some alligator hunters, including "He-Who's-Name-Is-Not-Spoken" of gatorguides.com in Tampa, say they are raising money for a legal challenge.

I sure hope someone else steps up, or he gets on the same page as the OTHERS who are ALSO working toward this same goal!!!!

 

[Olf Art]

Yup, 'ol 'no name' might be a lot more of a liability than an asset ...... again.

JMO

 

[Joe]

Has anyone p,`ed bondo about that? The sooner she knows the better,if she don`t allready.

 

[Anonymous]

If it was up to me, I'd be looking for a new Assistant County Attorney after she got up and lied to the public and the commissioners, it is obvious that she did not check with the Coast Guard.

If she knew of anything about the history of Osceola she would have known that these lakes where the main avenue of commerce at one time. The old steam boat channel runs right by the new courthouse. It was at one time (albeit long ago) a major avenue of commerce for the people of Kissimmee. You can still leave the lakefront in Kissimmee and travel to the Gulf Coast or the Atlantic Coast. And if she would have took the time to read Title 33 of the Federal CFR’s she would have known what constitutes a navigable waterway.

“Assistant County Attorney Sherry Hopkins told commissioners the county had checked with the Coast Guard on whether the two lakes were considered navigable bodies of water when they passed the first ordinance. "And they are not," she said in the meeting.”

Osceola County has no jurisdiction over these lakes.

 

[Olf Art]

Cracker, can you envision a situation where the Coast Guard might remove the 'navigable waterway' status of a body of water?

I guess what I'm asking is .... do they ever buckle-under to pressure to State wishes, or are those things pretty much carved in stone?

 

[SwampMatt]

Danny Brantley, Bonnie, Bishop, Dave Markett, ETC are the ones I know of working on this. I emailed them all the link to the article in case they don't see it here. But they probably ALREADY knew about it.... it just did not make the papers when THEY knew. :lol:

Don't forget who is the 'media hog' and got his name printed at the end of the article.

Cracker - YOU ARE RIGHT ON!!! Yes, that asst attorney is bad blood!!! "Shoddy" would be a nice word to describe her work.... I'd even guess there are illegal and underlying ulterior motives present! But that's just my own opinion.

here is the video where she tells her lie....
at 2min 25sec watch her as she is shaking her head - while the gentleman is speaking!! That's just rude, and she is underhandedly communicating to the commission while another citizen has the floor. WRONG!
At about 3min 35sec she takes the stand and says outright that quote you list above.
[youtube]dpEgKT2qrh0[/youtube]

It's an outrage what they are getting away with down there!!! That whole commission is out of touch with reality! (and the citizens AND THE LAW!!!!)

Olf, I asked the same thing... what if the commission went after having the navigable status removed. I heard that's just about impossible. But would like to hear more about that.... and that is just a short term quick fix. This WHOLE THING is WRONG WRONG WRONG! (To quote Dave Johnson) We need to (and will) find a better way to beat this!

 

[Anonymous]

It would take a lot of time and expense to declare it not a navigable waterway, you would have to file it with the Federal Govt. and bring it to Federal Court to change it, I believe. I don’t think the County would want to spend that kind of money now or in the future.
We need to beat this and set a precedent so that other counties and even other states may use it as an example. IMO

 

[Olf Art]

I couldn't agree more! This is a Must Win .... the precedent it would set could be one of the finer things that has come along for all of us in some time.

 

[Anonymous]

I believe one of the reasons they are so strongly against us is that they just approved a brand new housing project on Lake Tohopekaliga and are looking at bringing in more development in the near future on this lake. When people start moving in you knows what happens next, they’ll start complaining about our boats even more. The commissioners don’t want to deal with it. It doesn’t matter to the commissioners that we have been running these lakes for over 40 or 50 years now. This is my way of life they are trying to change. It doesn’t matter that we are running out of water according to SFWMD or Toho Water Authority which have been complaining of water shortages since 2004. I truly believe there is an underlying motive here.

 

[bondo]

Folks:
The lawsuit Bruce Castile (front for PW) will bring will be for GATOR GUIDES AND LICENSED CAPTAINS ONLY!
They will argue that the Coast Guard regulates those waters and the captains licensed by them. THus, a licensed captain can use the water regulated by the CG!...

So, if you aren't a licensed captain -- you'll still be sitting on the edge of the lake watching your friendly captain go a huntin!

He continues to pursue his own agenda -- not that of the general, run of the mill, airboater.
Beware!
Bondo

 

[Olf Art]

Bonnie, why doesn't any of this surprise me ? :roll:

 

[airduds]

I don't think that is true but it might not be too bad to let it start that way. Once it's affirmed it is a navigable waterway and the CG has jurisdiction, it will probably be an easy follow up to say it doesn't apply to just to licensed captains. Sure isn't that way anywhere else.

I'm saying let "you know who" do the heavy lifting and then we can do the light work later.

Just idle thoughts.

 

[Olf Art]

Hmm .... nice thinkin, Airduds.

 

[gruprgetr]

ok heres my 2 cents worth
1. WE ARE STILL CONCERNED WITH THE SUNSHINE LAW WAS THIS VIOLATED?
SEEMS TO ME THAT THE "GOOD OL BOYS" ALREADY NEW ABOUT THE OUTCOME BEFORE SHE EVEN MADE HER STATEMENT.THIS CANNOT JUST GO AWAY!
2. IF A RULING CANNOT BE REVERSED AFTER THE DECISION THEN WHY DID THEY CHANGE THEIR RULING ON THE GOLFCOURSE DECISION AFTER IT WAS VOTED IN AND 2nd AND 3rd WAS CALLED
WE WERE NOT ALLOWED TO SPEAK AFTER THE CALL WAS MADE ON THE AIRBOAT CURFEW AS STATED BY ATT. JO THACKER" RULING CANNOT BE CHANGED AFTER IT IS VOTED.DO I SEE MAYBE A DOUBLE STANDARDHERE?
3.THERE SHOULD BE NO SIMPATHY HERE FOR THESE PEOPLE THEY HAVE BEEN DOING THIS KINDA CRAP LONG ENOUGH IF LAWS HAVE BEEN BROKEN HERE IN GOVERNMENT THEN A STAND NEEDS TO BE TAKEN TO SHOW THAT WE'RE NOT GOING AWAY AND NOCOMPRAMISES WILL BE EXCEPTED!
4.YES THE COMMOSION HAS OPENED THE EAST SIDE OF TOHO TO DEVELOPMENT SO THIS ISSUE NEEDS TO GET SQUASHED NO I MEAN SMASHED SO THAT THIS IS SET IN CONCRETE AND CANNOT BE EVER CHALLENGED AGAIN
THIS AINT LOVE SO ITS GOTTA BE WAR
TAKE NO PRISONERS SHOW NO MERCY
CAPT.ROY

 

[SwampMatt]

Airduds - you are a good thinker! Out of the box for sure.

Gruprgetr - I'm with you on that sunshine stuff. Not much hard evidence though, just the video where Sherri Hpkins mentions "what you told me before" as the chariman said it. It implies a private meeting, heck, it could have been pillow talk! Who's to say she is not sleeping with the boss!??!!

She sure does go at it like it's PERSONAL for her. Same with those commissioners. It seems PERSONAL to them. Elected offices are not the right place for a personal vendetta!!!

Oh, and the news Bonnie has that "that guy" is going for his own personal benefit here, You can trust a crocodile to be a crocodile!!!

HAhaha! Rick! Thanks. When I type his name.... the PROFANITY censor kicks in! HAHAH!! Phil Walters! :lol:

 

[gruprgetr]

JMO but i think we should stick to our guns on this and not except any SOFT SOAP on any of this
no compromises or any you give us this and we'll take that crap
ITS ON THE TAPE ABOUT THE DOUBLE STANDARD no two ways about it
WE WANT OUR D**M LAKE BACK !
IF YOU DONT LIKE THE SOUND OF BOATS ON THE WATER MOVE TO ARIZONA!
ERIC ESTRADA'S GOT A LOT FOR YOU
CAPT.ROY

 

[bondo]

We're not backing down!
The main issue is the ordinance. IF we find out and can prove that they met out of the sunshine, that's another matter to be taken to another "court" to be prosecuted....but we want the lake back first and that's what we are focused on!
bondo

 

[Olf Art]

Thanks, Bonnie ..... that sounds like a very sound plan to me.
Job #1 is to get the decision of the Osceola Commisioners overturned. That sends a very clear message all of it's own.

Good deal. Hang in there.