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Concern For The Discovery Crew

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Gbenzx

Well-known member
We've been trying to pay attention as best we can & looks like the NASA contractors have brought to us some of the same probs that destroyed the Columbia & wasted away seven great people. :(

Fox News had a photo of the Discovery bottom after Eileen Collins did the roll which came from the Nasa site under Sights & Sounds,
-www.nasa.gov/home/-

I asked our daughter if she could call it up & expand it someway to see if we could see the prob with the tiles near the main landing gear that Fox had mentioned. No joy, Nasa has converted it to a codec streamer & I can't find it now on Fox. Did any of ya'll see this & can it be expanded?

You know most of us Americans generally get better at what we do as we practice a few times, do we not? Well seems to me these clowns are getting worse. Probly got the tile adhesive from Wally World or someplace.

Thanx, Gben
 
Gb- I know that space travel is a risk every bleaping time they climb into that rocket. I realize that there are all types of risks and issues that I could never dream of.

Those guys have put man on the moon, a space station (2 now) into space, and had a man live for a year in space. Remote vehicles to Mars and lots of other places. Slammed a satelite into a comet, BUT ......

But Damn it, they cannot keep the styrofoam insulation on the fuel tank.
That just shocks me.
 
One thing you have to remember is never in the history of the shuttle flying have you had the type of imagery coming back that you do today. Therefore you can see things you may not have known were a problem.
 
I too have been trying to follow this. NASA has known about minor tile damage from the first launch. Originally they looked over the bottom of the shuttle with large telescopes from the ground. They had never thought it was important. Now with all the cameras they are using on this flight and the media attention, they need to get this flight right. I am guessing they will go out and fix the two spots but I also guess that it has happened before and never mattered.

The US needs to develop a space plane that can take off from a runway and not rely on a rocket launch. The down side of a space plane is that it will not be able to carry the heavy loads that the shuttle can. If we are ever going to 'do something' in space we will need a shuttle or something like it for years to come.
Wilson

If man does not explore and expand he will stagnate
 
That’s a sore subject with me. My father was a quintessential German mathematician that worked at the cape and for the space program for 38 years even before manned space flight was attempted. After each launch at dinner he would tell me how many tiles fell off the shuttle and how many were critical this was an issue in the 70’s. He was pissed when they launched the Challenger I will never forget at diner the day before the launch he told me NASA was going to kill their Astronauts. He knew as others did that bird sat on the pad to long and had to many scrubs let alone it was the coldest shuttle launch to date. He retired from the space program that very month. Forward to Discovery my father passed away before then it was also one of the coldest launches many people who know me will tell you I openly commented there would be a problem. I know it would have hurt him to see another crew get killed by an issue that was not handled properly. Well it looks like they screwed up again let’s pray the Astronauts make it home. I think NASA is starting to calculate their risk assessments like a weather man kind of like there is only a 35% chance of catastrophic failure today and a 28% chance of one tomorrow. Damaged Tiles have been a problem since the 70’s and nothing has been done we have been lucky instead of great as NASA once was.
 
Wilson that’s weird you mentioned telescopes my father ran a mount of what was one of the largest optical telescopes in the world at the time for RCA then CSR. They know how many and how serious all the tile damage is by visual evidence they gather from optical telescopes that’s what scares me after all that info they still drove by the space station to have the tiles looked at. I’m fearful that they have a major problem this time. I hope I’m wrong and their being extra cautious but their previous track record doesn’t instill much confidence in me. Would anybody on this board drive a car to California with out taking a spare tire so why the hell our we orbiting the Earth with out the ability to repair the most crucial part of our vehicles.
 
The rotation by the Space station was planned before the mission started. Always has been planned to do as far as I know. The reason is because the OBSS sensors can't really reach that well to the belly. They are great though for the wing leading edge and a few other areas.
 
I worked in the missile and space program from 1959 until 1965, and then I decided to fly airplanes for a living. NASA does not do the designing or construction of a space craft. They merely approve the design and operate it. The contractor people that designed the shuttle are probably mostly gone from that project, and the people they trained are probably gone also. I believe the maintenance and operation contracts have also changed and are now the lowest bidder. In this process a lot of history and knowledge has been lost. There has always been political pressure to get going. An excellent example of that would be John Kennedy’s pledge to go to the moon before 1970.

During the 80’s the airline that I worked for had a contract to provide charter flights from the Cape to Edwards to transport the launch and recovery team out for the landing and back to the Cape. Occasionally another airline underbid us, but we had it most of the time. The flight crew was special requested by Rockwell and I was a member of that crew most of the time unless I was on vacation. The first shuttle flight was Columbia on April 12, 1981 piloted by John Young and Bob Crippen. I was not a part of that operation, and I don’t remember which launch I started flying for, but it was in the early 80’s.

I asked to see the flight manual for the spacecraft and they gave me one to study. I came away from that study thinking that the shuttle was a dangerous spacecraft. The astronauts have been asked about that (years ago before the losses) and they replied that it is the best spacecraft for the money. So, they work with it.

Well, my point is that a new improved shuttle whether it leaves on a rocket or takes off from a runway is easy to design, but not so easy to pay for. In the mean time this one has to do, if we want to continue to fly. I think the present problems are probably blown out of proportion, and the flight will be fine.

Jim
 
I sure hope your right and the media is running amuck and there are no major issues. Because I don’t feel that NASA is no longer doing their best to control the Calculated Risk factor like they once did. I hope competition from other countries and the private sector bring NASA back to its former glory. If not we need to move on become more ambitious.
 
I couldn’t agree more with you. I know my father had an immense amount of pride in what he did during his career at the Cape. Can you imagine what it was like to be part of that program, putting a man on the moon what could be more ambitious and they actually achieved it. I have absolutely no problems with a Federally funded space program I believe I received more benefits from NASA and the Defense department than anything else my tax dollars are spent on. I just think they need a little competition to get back in shape. You said it best about everyone striving for the same goal. I believe we all need another ambitious challenge so the program will have one goal. Not just hurling satellites into space.
 
Thunder,

Not only a lot of pride, but a lot of fun too. I occasionally went out to CA to help with one of the test programs. I could sketch a part I needed after lunch, I had a really good draftsman that would have the drawing done before quitting time. The machine shop would build it during second and third shift. The early shift mechanics would have it installed during the morning usually. It would go from an idea to an installed part in less than 24 hours. Imagine the airboat you could build with that kind of service. That was during the height of the race to the moon, when time was everything.

One of the VP's from that California company came down to FL and went airboating with me. He did not like the rather crude rudder linkage on the boat and was about to install some titanium spherical joints in the linkage that were scrapped. Nobody had those type end fittings on their boats back then. I could not let him do that.

Jim
 
Thanx Guys

Especially for being open abt the known & unknown concerning nasa & their contractors. :)
My first commercial pilot job was with Food Fair stores as a cojoe & I was fortunate enough to work under a very sharp chief pilot who was a proir RCA engineer. He talked to me a lot abt the goings on(schemes) between contractors & government people.
Being prior military I knew something abt what he was talking abt but for the first time I learned how widespread & devasting these deals could be in the commercial world. It was for this reason he eventually left those kind of people & went back to flying.
Many Americans today being government educated really believe that whatever mother government says is just fine. Notso. All of us have a born duty to keep these people in check & doing the right thing. Many tax payers among us really believe their governments do not have enough money when the reverse of which is the obvious truth. With too much money many government people lose respect first, for ones own property & second for life itself.
This knuckle head running nasa keeps saying, oh it's my fault. What is he trying to fathom? Our fault, you & me so when astronauts die we have to pay & not the protected people that produced the problem. :(
Yes, we will pray........

Thnx, Gben

The Good; 309 souls survive when the Air France 340 skids 700ft off the end of a runway at Toronto into the woods & burns.
 
Discovery is now scheduled to touch down at Edwards AFB in Ca at 0812am EDT. Fl weather wouldn't cooperate.

One can use NASA or Foxnews to access a TV stream video window & monitor Mission Control Operations if desired. The approach will require a 195 degree overhead alignment at Edwards. :)

Gben
 
I've always been a big supporter of the space program, and totally admire the men and women who make it happen. Not just the astronauts, though they are certainly taking the biggest risks, but all the thousands of people it takes to work together to bring off such a huge accomplishment.

When I was a child I watched the stages separate from the earliest rockets from my front yard in Melbourne. I was at McDonell Douglas in the O&C building when Challenger blew up, and when Discovery returned to flight two years later I was at Lockheed. I was with Lockheed / USA for the next 10 years when I quit to start my own business.

When I left KSC it was amid a general feeling of management vs. labor hostilities and frustration from having to work with cheaper and inferior tools. People were saying "I just don't care", rather than fighting to get the job done right.

There was quite a brain-drain. Good, experienced people were taking jobs elsewhere, leaving some real knuckleheads behind to run the show. There were incidents that were downplayed in the media that had many of us seriously concerned about safety.

When a voluntary layoff was offered we lined up in the hundreds to accept. There were so many of us that they didn't even bother with an exit interview, just handed us our separation packages and showed us the door.

It's been a few years since I left, and maybe things have gotten better out there since then. I'm just saying that I saw serious problems when I was there, and as dedicated as I am to the space program, saw that it was time to get out. When the politic-ing and empire building become the biggest focus of the job, quality suffers.

The shuttle fleet is getting pretty old, and those tiles have been a problem forever. I'm very surprised there hasn't been a push to develop a better solution. Even with the very best people in the world, you need to give them good tools to work with.
 
Yes they did,

Came home just fine & just like Jim said they would :)
Eileen Collins flew an almost perfect overhead pattern reversal as we watched at Sun tire shop with abt 20 folks crowded into their little office.

Among our several concerns was the insulation skin flap below the cockpit window which didn't produce any problems. Another was the heavy weight which was by far they said the most any shuttle had returned from orbit. From that we thought higher sink rate with higher temps & less manual glide distances for needed corrections. Collins did say she let Kelly have the controls for a total of abt 30 seconds :(

Thanx to all, much has been said in a very short space & much more across our land needs tobe said abt our leaders being trashed with $$$.

Mbunny, thanx for all you contribute to this site.

But Matt don't dare let those clowns find out abt FrogSpit :)

Gben
 
If they find out about Frog Spit, they will put a mil-spec number on it and the price will go to $1000.00 a gallon.
 
Exactly Bigboom

And of course the Govit Lawyers would demand several Studies & Restudies of both Frogs & Frogspit not to mention Airboats & what kind of fuel they use & how much sound they make & how many bugs they disturb & on & on....... :(

But on what Wilson says,

Whatever happened to the Ramjet program?
A 747 or C5 would carry this machine to the upper atmosphere, fire the ramjets & then go small rocket engine. Upon return it could land at most any airport with some fairly reasonable weight.

Of course the Ramjet will shut down when the oxygen runs out at I'll guess 5k mph but the rocket would use only a smidgen of the ground launch fuel because of no friction to contend with.

Well maybe that made the fuel people mad. :( Who knows..........

Gben
 
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