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Fence Posts(OUCH)

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2013-03-22_14_37_46
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Skeeter

Skeeter

Well-known member
What would happen if a group of concerned airboaters removed some fence posts from areas that cause danger or death to boaters?Some of this areas are probably private property.I understand the ordinance to read that, a land owner can fence to high water line not all the way out to the water when it is low.Thought I would bring this up for discussion.Maybe we could start scheduling fence post removal rides.
 
Skeeter,

I've been a captain almost 35 years. The only boats that have ever gone down under me were two airboats after contact with illegal submerged fence posts. I'll volunteer for your effort.
 
Pulling post:
1. shake and rock if grounf is sandy

2. Power wash out: Jet them out with a pump. The ones in water can be jetted out with a well pump. If some one has a gen set and shallow well pump you can blow them out fast.

3. Woods jack: Screw a block of wood or angle iron to post and jack them out if they are on solid groung.

4. Tri pod and chain fall


We would definitely need sound legal advise on this one. The high water mark is covered in many Fl statutes. South of hwy 46 may not be considered navagational waters. Is that state land or private land? Also if you take down the fence or open up a section and one of those cows takes out a car or truck on 46 who are they going to go after.


Lookes like we need to mark them with more reflectors and white PVC pipes.

This is a very serious issue. It has happened many times. Seen a bass boat do the same thing.

The land owner still owns the land, the public have every right to transit
the land below the mean high water mark. The fence post issue is just another example of how complicated the law is.
 
There are plenty of fence posts south of 46 that are not connected to any fence keeping in any cattle. These posts serve no purpose and are a hazard. I am in total support of their removal.

Dave
 
Ya'll can only imagine how complicated this could get. First you have to determine the oridinary high water mark, The soveriegn lands part is fairly easy to determine and probably already has been. The dredge and fill permit required to do this in state waters, yeah i know it sounds silly, is a mother to get. You see when you pull the post or cut one off there is a small amount of fugitive particulates that disperse into the waters and a permit which outlines the methodology used to contain them little buggers is probably going to be required.

I will try and make a few call to tallahasse this week and see if this area of the river has been addressed in the past by the department of environmental protection, division of statelands. Then we can check with the water management district to see if a permit is required and what it entails.

Or we could just get jdotson to turn on his cap light when running at night so he could see them. LOL

The good news is the hazard to navigation is clear.
 
I'll get in on that too Skeeter. I've rode that area when the water was up - but never when it was this low. In a one mile stretch, there were 80 or more fence posts. And that don't even begin to count the ones still submerged!!!

I think first question is HOW DO YOU DETERMINE ILLEGAL? I don't think it'd be good to make some headlines of "Airboat Gang Destroys Rancher's Property"

The post that ejected JD was about the size of a telephone pole in diameter. That thing would have ripped my fiberglass hull in two.

How do we do it? I suppose we're gonna get wet. Some of them are in or near some pretty deep water.

If someone has a gas operated water pump we can loosen them up the same way they are put in - hi pressure in a water pipe.

That pump would also be nice to hose the mud off ourselves.

I'll get dirty!!!! :D But I don't want to perform any vandalism on any posts that are placed legally.
 
The pole jdotson discovered lays in that portion of the river between bs hill and hat bill the pole is in the river about thirty feet from the west bank in about 8 to 10' of water stickin up out of the water about 8 to 12"' there is a line of posts and wire extending out into the river from the east bank also. Its the only place that you have at a maximum of 50' between fences in the main channel .As I had passed these posts earlyer like 3 times that day i was concerned that the fences should not have been erected extending into the river channel and that someone could easly get into trouble like me ,never thought that jdotson would end up takin the plung at that exact spot.Asbig as the pole is it will take a pump and pvc pipe on the end of a hose to get it out.
 
I've never been real good at cowtowing to somebody if what they've got is endangering me or someone I care for.

I say cut em down if they're a navigational hazard, and we'll deal with the consequences later. JMO.

Who they gonna sue if people we know and care for are at risk of being killed by them ? Git er done and let the chips fall ...... looks to me like the burden is on them if they haven't marked them as a hazard.

olf
 
Why don't you guy's get the Fish & game guy's involved the poles are a hazard to them also and let them make the call on weather the post can be removed or not and I would just cut them off not try to pull them out
 
Olf Art":2f0uggjx said:
I've never been real good at cowtowing to somebody if what they've got is endangering me or someone I care for.

I say cut em down if they're a navigational hazard, and we'll deal with the consequences later. JMO.

Who they gonna sue if people we know and care for are at risk of being killed by them ? Git er done and let the chips fall ...... looks to me like the burden is on them if they haven't marked them as a hazard.

olf
Click to expand...

Yep sounds good to me LOL I got one client now who felt that way about a little 1.5 acre pond addition to his property and the water mangement fined him 17,000 dollars I fought it down and got it settled for only 6,000 and he has to get the permit now. But he has his pond now instead of later and he was actually happy with the results, timing was everything to him.

I always take the route of asking forgiveness is easier than asking permission but when so many may be involved it may be better to get it right from the getgo.

Just for the record ... FWC, FDOT, all CITIES, COUNTIES and all STATE organizations are required to get permits from water management districts and get fined if they don't, yep sounds stupid one government agency fining another one but it happens all the time and it is big money involved. The FDOT had to buy wetlands that they created in order to do the needed improvemnts to interstate 4. and they made the wetlands originally from uplands. I had a client who was digging next to a water body and didn't need a permit until they took a picture of a clump of dirt falling off the bucket of the track hoe and landing in the water, oops now he needed a dredge and fill permit and paid a fine for not having one. Just thought it was worth mentioning don't shoot me I am just the messenger, blame the government of florida that created the water management districts, who by the way are basically autonomous, they have very little to answer for to any one.
 
15 cows running down I 95 at Port St Johns. Olf Arf, did you cut that fence? He He

Hey, when you jump that A$$ up in that seat and step on the gas you better drive careful. If you dont know where you are at you better slow down. That pole has been there for many years.

I would like to know who owns the land. You have four counties. Orange, Seminole, Volusia, and Brevard. You also have Big Econ State Park, Simenole ranch. Joshua creek land purchase is some where over there?

No doubt, those fence posts are dangerous if you run into them at cruise speed. It could happen to anybody.

Olf Arf would you like my kids to come over to your property and remove your fence so they could ride their 4 wheeler acoss your property. Of course not.

You have to respect the rights of land owners. I don't want anybody messing with my fence or my property. I spent 27 yrs in the Navy protecting this country. I believe in law and order.

If there is a legal and honest way to remove the fence post. I will come out and join in. No problem. I would hate to see this become an adverse event for the great people that airboat the river.

Land is a very touchy topic. You piss off the wrong land owner and he will sell out to a developer, take his money and move on. Would hate to see 100 to 1000 homes built out there. It just amazes me how zoning laws can change so fast when the county starts to take in the new tax revenue.

Lets get the facts and do the right thing. Obide by the LAW.


And by the way. If you go by bear bluff on the west side and head south, about a 1/2 mile to 3/4 south there is a post sticking out of the water by only 4 to 6 inches. It is right in the middle of at 90 degree turn to the right as you motor to midway. (deep water)


Skeeter, great thread and very important question
 
I'm not sure how low the water gets in the area where I found the post but it appeared to be a good ways out into the river channel with about 6" sticking out of the water. Visibility was the issue rather than speed and the glancing blow on the right side bottom was just enough to throw me off balance. FWI, when my foot came off the throttle pedal the idle compensating solenoid closed from the bump and shut the engine off immediately.
 
Deepsea, I'm trying to hear you but ......
My fence is not a hazard to your children on their 4 wheelers unless they try to drive through it, so I will see to it that it is plainly marked and evident.

If property lines (fences) are so vaguely disguised that they can cause your children harm, then I would feel that I'm liable.

If I have a fence that you and they can clearly see, fine.
But if it's a trap for you or them if you or they, whether you're on a 4 wheeler or in a boat, then I think that's another matter altogether.

I think the burden should be on the landowner if an airboater is hurt by a submerged fence post.
If that's not true then we are trespassing, and shouldn't be there in the first place. Think about it.

olf
 
Skeeter,

Post were brought up awhile back around the Kissimmee chain, (I personally know where one is that everyone denies exists). It's in the same type of navigating waters, (up on plane).

I believe the K.R.V.S.A. was marking them with 10 foot lengths of 1/2" pvc pipe :roll:

Not a permanent fix, but a bandaid is better than nuthin!

Basketcase
 
Sounds to me like you people need eith a underwater chainsaw and scubagear or a real heavy duty weed wacker w/ a long shaft! :)
 
Overbudget, that's kinda what I'm thinkin ....... mounted on the front of a boat.

You could ease up to one, cut it and throw it in the boat in about 10 seconds flat. Works for me.

olf
 
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