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Gator input

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3/11/06 Run
Arbuckle Creek
new ride
cool little boat
9-5-2006-07
D

deepsea diver

Well-known member
For those of you that feel that the system is "Fucxxx uP" HERE IS A CHANCE TO HAVE YOUR SAY. If you do nothing you will get shafted again and somebody will get all the tags again.

When you here that somebody had 4 peope on the computer and they recieved 300 to 450 tags that bullshxt. I think they had a straight shot at those tags from the contractor through the back door.


http://myfwc.com/gators/input.html

Welcome to the Alligator Management Program's
Stakeholder Input Website


In the coming weeks and months, the Alligator Management Program will be embarking on a comprehensive review of its direction and program components, as it relates to established goals and objectives. Through this site, we plan to link the general public and stakeholders to web-based tools to provide us valuable input regarding this review process and provide you with up-to-date information. Running through September 29th, we have an online survey/questionnaire active to solicit your initial input. Or, if you'd rather, you can print a copy and mail or fax it to us. If you have any questions, comments, or suggestions, please don't hesitate to contact Mr. Harry J. Dutton, the Alligator Management Program Coordinator, at (850) 410-0656 ext. 17279 or Harry.Dutton@MyFWC.com. Thank you ahead of time for your participation in this important endeavor.

Speak up or shut up!!!
 
I took the survey and wish there were more opportunities to add more input. Not knowing the program inside and out, Question/Section 15 raised the following response from me:

The conservation goals are too broad and need to be accomplished by utilizing actions steps for each goal. Action steps need to be specific and measurable to determine if any progress is being made. Goals are the "feel good" words and the action items are the "get it done" words.

1. Maintain alligator populations in all 67 counties.

Are there measurable numbers to achieve here? Do research population numbers accurately measure actual population for each county?

2. Provide regulations that protect alligator populations from illegal take, but provide for legal sustainable use of alligators.

Define legal sustainable use. Who determines what is sustainable use? Biologists? Are the regulations fair and offer equal opporunities for all? What safeguards are in place to ensure the program is managed effectively, efficiently, ethically, and without prejudice to all qualifying individuals.

3. Communicate with environmental and ecosystem protection groups/agencies to ensure alligator habitat is conserved.

What communication are we talking about here? Again, this needs to be a defined and measurable. Effective goals are not broad statements to make everyone feel good.

4. Conduct surveys to monitor alligator population trends and distribution.

How many surveys and in what areas? How many surveys for each area before the information is considered accurate and reliable?

5. Maintain alligator populations on public, non-residential, harvested areas within 25% of pre-harvest levels (circa 1988).

How was this percentage mandated? What biological data supports this percentage?
 
I have asked for all the data on the issuance of the tags.
I want know who got what.

I also have asked if any rules or laws have been violated during the fee-ass-co.
 
they need another line that says " if you think we are dreaming"... 95% this 95% that, come on. They want to make a business out of this. Issue permits for free, and let people do whatever the heck they want with them. Enforce the law and be done, all this translates into more laws, more money, and less fun.
 
Oh yea it's real.
We had our annual Nuisance Alligator Trappers meeting with Harry, Lindsey, and many others from the commission. They pretty much guaranteed what happened this year is not going to happen again. They pissed off alot of you good Ole Boys, and they understand that. Plus they lost a ton of revenue letting all those additional tags go fo $67.00 dollars instead of $270.00 dollars. There was enough people wanting permits this year to hunt that they would of sold the majority of the permits at $270.00 dollars that same day. Then they could of sold the additional ones ( if any were left) weeks later. And they understand that also. The people that snatched up all those addtional tags this year, enjoy them, cause it's not gonna happen again, bet on it.
 
From what I can tell, there was little to no increase in gator harvest allowed on any of the AMUs. Several are out of skelter - see: two permits on Lake Cypress as an example.

Gov Jeb wants Florida to be The Place sportsmen come to enjoy outdoor pursuits. Yet, the regulators charge $1,000. plus for anyone from out-of-state who wants his / her own gator harvest tags.

There is no universal "agent" license that would allow a person to hunt more than one AMU or with more than one trapper. If harvest agent rights were a flat fee to all, then those with that license could hunt / assist anywhere the need existed without worrying about the gun and badge boys.

Gator hunt participants should be allowed to "grade" gun and badge encounters. There is a pervasive feeling among many hunt participants that too many LEOs treat gator hunt participants as guilty parties when a stop is effected. in America, ALL are assumed to be innocent until PROVEN guilty.
 
Just to set a couple of things straight.

No one had any backdoor in to the system. I know to many of the people who got a lot of tags and there was no back door period. Secondly there is not a single person who got more than 94 permits. The person you are speaking of had a total of 465 tags (roughly). That included several people that were hunting for him. Essentially he just bank rolled it.

On the agents license issue. You can get around that by just purchasing a trappers license. This allows you to hunt with anyone anywhere as an agent.

With that said I aggree the system should change and have no doubt it will change. I don't believe people will have the opportunity to get as many tags as this year. However, I also don't think the interest will be there from the public next year unless we have a bunch of attacks again. But we will see.
 
One of the big problems with the system was that the collection/pay center in the mid west was unable to handle the surge of people trying to obtain the tags. This would kick you out of the system and you would have to start over.

The second problem with the system was that you were to get the two tags and the start over. Some people got the two tags and stayed in the shopping cart and added another 16 tags to there basket. This was not the way it was meant to be , but it happened!

All this info is public information. Just call Harry Dutton. I am getting a list of every one who recieved gator tags and how many they got. Then there will be no hear say, it will just be the facts and the truth. Then you can make up your own mind who you want to buy your equipment from or refer someone to.

I can tell you this, they a'int going to get them next year!!!!!!
 
CFTH is correct. Early & persistence bird got the worm. There is no "back door," only those who stay on top of the program and make it work for them. ANYONE willing to invest the time had access. Same with the rest of life. If you don't want this type of access, suggets a return back to the days of the lottery.

I sat with Harry & Steve in March. When they informed me of unlimited tags for an individual from the get go, speaking on behalf of Florida's sportsmen, I advised strongly against it and asked for an "open window" for the average Joe to get tags. They wanted to sell all tags & did so as they planned & earned a backlash. Lesson learned.

Speaking of public access to the resource, any comments about state contractors who have 365 day access to public bodies of water to harvest gators that may or may not be a problem where the public cannot? Is this good policy? Discussion
 
Deepseadiver; In my opinion you have some valid points. Look forward to the list showing how the tag count was per individual, hope it is posted by the time I get back from hunting in a couple of weeks. Never had or have anything against people making a decent living, but rampant greed and abuse is another issue, that is something that all air-boaters should remember for a long time. The system shortcomings is no excuse for such behavior in my opinion.
 
About this early bird @#$'t. I was on- line well before 10 am that morning and put my choices in when they opened the sales.The computer kicked out my 2'nd choice. When i clicked on additional permits, it said only one transaction at a time. But when i re-submitted everything the system was overloaded. If i would have went to the tag office they would have done everything in one transaction, not said go to the end of the line and start over. I think alot of people were misinformed from the get go. No offense gatorstick i'm just upset that so many got burned trying to be that early bird.
 
I have the list on who got what and how many. FWC sent it to me in a PDFdoc format. How can I post it? Need help or I can send it to some one who can post it.
 
Geneva0550,

I went throght the same BS except I sat at my computer for over 4 hours. The tax & tag folks often don't know how the programs works.........

My advice to the FWC Gator Management team in March was to have an open period of ONE PERMIT PER PERSON for a period of a month. They did what they did & I worked within their parameters.

I'll add that Harry & Steve are fine folks and work very hard to serve the gator hunters of Florida. They bend over backwards to correct gator mistakes, get licenses straight, educate the wrong information FWC law enforcement often has. Their service is first rate, best I have ever had from a state agency and all the foks; clients, fellow hunters, media, ect have the same to say.
 
Gatorstick, What's done is done. Hopefully things will be different next year. This was the first year i have hunted since they dropped the limit to 2. I first hunted when the limit was 15. You didn't have to be so selective back then.When they dropped the limit to 5 i hunted from 95' to 97' then lost interest when they dropped the limit to 2. I got back into it this year because of the extra tags.
 
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