• If you log in, the ads disappear in the forum and gallery. If you need help logging in or getting registered, send request to: webmaster@southernairboat.com

How does the TQ curve affect rpms.

Basin_Runner355

Well-known member
Someone shed some light on this. Been thinking bout going with 2.3 or 2.5 gear but for the sake of the Convo let’s just stick with the 2:1 for now. I’m running a Holley dual plane. Makes great Tq down low but flatens out after 5k. So say I throw a Victor jr on there. It suffers down low but put out more hp and tq after 5k rpms. My question is if I have x amount of load and I cruise at 3500. If I loose 20-30 ft lbs of tq at 3500 would I have to in theory turn more rpms say 3700 to carry that same load.

Motor is a Ls stroker. Making 530-540 hp and tq. Turning a 80 carbon concepts falcon at 5400. Yes I know I’m over turing the prop I don’t care that’s where it pushes. That’s not up for debate.
 
Kind of a loaded question "debate",,,, my question here is, what carburetor are you running on the dual plane intake?

Most dual plane intakes will pull through 6200 RPMS, torque curve flattens out below that of course but where is that point?

You want to stall the engine with the prop at that "point".
Gotta keep in mind, these are still tow truck engines, geared to pull low end snap and still room for high end cruise.
Sounds like you have quite the powerplant, may just need some tuning/jetting.
Never heard of that prop manufacturer.
 
Torque and Hp are measured at a given RPM at full throttle. Part throttle power is difficult to determine because the engine is not being measured at it’s maximum potential, being full open throttle, where the cylinders are being filled to their maximum by lowering manifold vacuum.
 
650 cfm quick fuel bout to swap to a purpose built 750. And the carbon concepts is water walkers new company name. Thier 12 wide blade
 
That test was done on a ls3 carb motor
 

Attachments

  • 99D60557-0662-47B1-B5DF-C093AF37DBE5.png
    99D60557-0662-47B1-B5DF-C093AF37DBE5.png
    166.5 KB · Views: 21
  • B348938F-3FCC-47B6-A356-4ADF637703D9.png
    B348938F-3FCC-47B6-A356-4ADF637703D9.png
    161.4 KB · Views: 23
3 blade. Thier blades don’t have that they just have one line and it’s slightly behind the split in the hub. I tired more pitch this prop likes tip speed I’m just trying to see if it be worth sacrificing the low end for the lil bit more at where the motor is pitched.

My question is do you feel the loss of low End tq cause you can tell when you make progress on the big end cause you gain rpms at same pitch
 
I’m not complaining. About the performance one bit. We got a couple guys and every once and a while they get Ancy and we go fool around and race up the levee. And what not. And they all run the Victor jr intake
 
Is your new prop right or left hand rotation?
Are you still running the same belt drive or did you switch to a gear box before you bought the new prop?
Are the specs still the same as before. ie. designed top end at 2450?
 
Unless you’re gonna turn that engine past 6000 those curves show the victor jr at less torque/power. If you want to know how it will feel on the low end (below 5000), add some pitch to your prop to knock 200-300 rpm off the top end and try it.

Your primary issue is not enough gear to use the new hot rod engine.
 
Prally just throw a fine tuned 750 on there and call it good. Boat goes anywhere with ease. Went run some hogs by yesterday and other boats struggling. With bigger motors and carrying less weight. I’m just chasing my tail trying to squeeze every lil bit out of the motor.
 
If you want to know how it will feel on the low end (below 5000), add some pitch to your prop to knock 200-300 rpm off the top end and try it.

Prally just throw a fine tuned 750 on there and call it good.

Same same.

If you have the later model Century and can upgrade pulleys to the 2.3 I think you will find those Falcons would love some pitch. I sure would like to know for my build and that's a cheap way to get all you got.
 
A guy I know has a 2.3 and wants to switch to a 2:1 but man all the ppl around here that tried the 2.3 say the don’t like it.

I’ve found that the falcons rather tip speed than pitch and my test is with added pitch turning 5k the levee we play on I struggled to stop half way up and had to rudder ti take off by myself. . Take some pitch out and let it turn up to 5400 I can do it with ease with a passenger.

That to me is a dead sign it likes to turn up regardless of them saying the sweet spot is 2450.

It pushes a load better at low rpms but it always will. With more pitch. All depends what you doing with your boat.

This past weekend went hunt hogs I had a passenger and 2 dogs. Other guy was in a built 454 with a 2.3with ngr’s set on 2. by him self with 3 dogs and he was having to rudder to take off every time and Idd start moving around 4500 dint even have to turn all it had.
 
I started a post yesterday before 'Gator posted, attempting to explain why you needed more gear. I saved a draft (I thought) because I had to be elsewhere. Now I find that it didn't save it, but I do see that 'Gator summed it up in one sentence . . .
Your primary issue is not enough gear to use the new hot rod engine.
In your first, initial post:
You start out by saying you don't want to talk about gearing.
You want help with swapping engine parts to offset/correct performance issues.
You know that you are over spinning the prop but don't care.
-- I point this out, not to give you a hard time, but only so you hopefully see how silly that first post reads.

A man needs three things to work together to build an all around bad ass performing airboat.
-- You already have a bad ass engine and a new, potentially bad ass prop.
-- The last missing piece that you need, is a gear ratio to allow both of then to run in their native power bands at the same time.
This is exactly and very specifically, what you are lacking.

You don't seem to realize it, but you were initially seeking help to swap out engine parts to bridge the performance gap that was created simply by starting with the wrong gear. The other drawback to this approach is that before long you don't have your 540hp engine.

You feel as if you have proven to yourself that your Falcons need and want tip speed rather than more pitch.
Not only is this wrong, but it is exactly backwards and goes against all prior experience.

I’ve found that the falcons rather tip speed than pitch and my test is with added pitch turning 5k the levee we play on I struggled to stop half way up and had to rudder ti take off by myself. . Take some pitch out and let it turn up to 5400 I can do it with ease with a passenger. This "test" does not show where the prop is efficient. This only shows how and where it is more efficient when using the wrong gear. Being outside of the manufacturer's specs should show you that the prop is NOT operating in the neighborhood it was designed for.

That to me is a dead sign it likes to turn up regardless of them saying the sweet spot is 2450. All this proves, is that with the wrong gear operating the prop outside of its' design parameters, better results are attained by taking out pitch.

Scenario One:
The prop at it's designed pitch turns 2450 RPMs.
. Given your 2:1 gearing, that equates to 4900 RPMs. This puts your engine well below its' power band.
. . Your performance is lacking so you want to swap engine parts to correct the issue.

Scenario Two:
. The prop at it's designed pitch turns 2450 RPMs.
. . You use a 2.3 gear, which equates to 5,635 RPMs. This puts your engine in the neighborhood of its' power band.
. . . You adjust prop pitch up and down to find the sweet spot.
. . . . You go part way up the levee with two passengers at <5000 rpm, stop, and then resume with no rudder. 😋

A guy I know has a 2.3 and wants to switch to a 2:1 but man all the ppl around here that tried the 2.3 say the don’t like it.
^^^^^ This is the best news of the day, week and maybe month . . . ^^^^^

And provides you with a very unique opportunity to cost effectively 'learn all them ppl around there'
that any gear will perform when it provides the needed match between the engine and the prop. :cool:

Better be careful if you don't want to become a local legend in them parts, throwin' conventional wisdom to the wind n all that.
When they see you running around at half throttle with them skinny headers and a forsaken 2.3 box, there ain't no tellin' what they'll do. :)
 
Having done this same thing, you are doing it wrong. I had a 2:1 and 3 blade falcon. It worked but not very good.

The falcon does like some pitch, that motor will 100% like more gear. 2.55 or 2.68 is correct for that motor. Point 52 or 67 if you are a belt guy.

Bet you can't notice much change by putting the Victor on. Maybe a few more rpm at wot.

Have a hard time believing any of your friends with a LS would go from a 2.3 to a 2/1. If I was you I'd trade your box with them. You will have a lower cruise rpm and more thrust at. Wot.

Call carbon concepts, David is a super smart guy and will give it to you with no bs

Oh and to answer your question, if the boat runs at x mph at x rpm and you change the motor it's going to run at the same speed at the same rpm afte the change as long as you dont change the pitch.
 
Having done this same thing, you are doing it wrong. I had a 2:1 and 3 blade falcon. It worked but not very good.

The falcon does like some pitch, that motor will 100% like more gear. 2.55 or 2.68 is correct for that motor. Point 52 or 67 if you are a belt guy.

Bet you can't notice much change by putting the Victor on. Maybe a few more rpm at wot.

Have a hard time believing any of your friends with a LS would go from a 2.3 to a 2/1. If I was you I'd trade your box with them. You will have a lower cruise rpm and more thrust at. Wot.

Call carbon concepts, David is a super smart guy and will give it to you with no bs

Oh and to answer your question, if the boat runs at x mph at x rpm and you change the motor it's going to run at the same speed at the same rpm afte the change as long as you dont change the pitch.
idk who David is but Andrew been telling me to try a 2.3. I’m one of the few ls boats around here most still run big blocks are the old sbc on hunt/play boats alot of the work boats runs the superchargers ls or LT
 
did not know this but guess david wine is not with carbon concepts. he was the guy that designed the falcon water walker aka powershift before that. Falcons are great props!
 
on my old boat i blew up my 454 so i replaced it with a stroked ls3. running a 78" 3blade falcon i had trouble running it past 4800rpm set at the index mark. I was giving up a lot of HP!!!! and with not a lot of pitch it was not epic! That same motor with a 2.55 now spins a 82" Super wide JX past 20mark at 5800. a massive increase in thrust !!!!!! i have been playing with more pitch to choke it back to 5300 rpm with a cruse around 3200 rpm and still pushes like a bull dozer

our motors sound the same

here is mine on the dyno
and the boat running, she is a big heavy girl and built to ram stuff :)
 
Back
Top