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Long-awaited airboat study to finally show results

rick

Administrator
The Florida Fish and Wildlife Conservation Commission will meet in September to discuss a long-awaited airboat sound study, but the results will be kept under wraps until then, an FWC official said on Tuesday.

Capt. Richard Moore said a draft report of the airboat sound study is being circulated for "peer review," but the report won't be made public until Florida Atlantic University researchers reveal the study's findings Sept. 21 in St. Petersburg Beach.

FWC's seven-member board of commissioners will . . .

Here's the rest: -http://www.chronicleonline.com/articles/2005/08/17/news/news50.txt-
 
Rick,

Don't sound good from my viewpoint! Pass the valum!!!

141, Right in your yard they will be meeting, (hope you could make the meeting to fill us in).

When they say"biodivesity issue" better hang on to your prop! The Florida Biodiversity group (4 members back then, lots of bucks) under the guidance of millionaire Brian, (forget his last name) were the ones to literally "shut-down" the Big Cypress here in south Florida a few years back!

Grab the guns honey I'm going to St. Pete!

Basketcase
 
Here's a quote from that article I found interesting:

FAU had promised a preliminary report on the airboat study, but Moore said FWC decided not to go that route. He said a preliminary report on airboat sound had been released to airboat groups on one other occasion, and a debate erupted about how to interpret the data.

Well, duh! This IS a debate, isn't it?
Whatever you do, don't release an AIRBOAT study to anybody who knows about AIRBOATS?
Sounds totally ridiculous, like they're afraid we might have something to say that might even make sense. And foil their evil plot to rid the world of airboats.
Yipes! This is scary stuff, y'all!
 
I agree Laura. And to further that comment:
FWC's seven-member board of commissioners will listen to a presentation and take public comment.
They are studying the results, but they won't let us even see it? Then they show it to us, and IMMEDIATELY ask for comments?!?!?

Something is wrong here. I thought there was some sort of "sunshine law" that prohibits secret meetings. Maybe it doesn't apply here, but I sure do feel like the government is trying to pull a fast one!!!

matt.
 
Jeez... this issue is really like "flames 'this' high" if you know what I maen... it has my butt burnin.

If the data can be "interpeted" either way, then it is inconclusive and therefore irrelevant. Right? A waste of time and should not be considered in the making of any decisions.

I feel like they are finding a way to make it conclusive, and when they release it the argument will be over. In other words, some people behind closed doors are making this decision in secret without any input from the people.

Ugh!!! :(

matt.
 
Moodfood The sunshine law applies to commossioners I know. They are not allowed to have any meetings without notice of such meeting. Don't know about the FWC. They have had more power than any other law enforcement agency for a while. I'm with Basket! Somethings up!!! The results may not have been in they're favor and the FWC is trying to fix it to please the special interest groups envolved. Maybe the FWC wants to get rid of this hot topic called AIRBOATS!!! We have become the 1%ers just like the bikers have been for years!!! I think the report is in our favor but thats what they don't want!! By the way my glass is usually half EMPTY.


WHAT THE HECK IS WITH THE GAS PRICES :(
 
Just got off the phone with FWC in Tallahassee. I wonder who the peer group is that is reviewing the report. I got bounced to 5 different secretaries - none are familiar with the report at all. I began asking for the phone number for "Capt. Richard Moore" and the one secretary did a search of all regional offices and hedquarters for the name Richard Moore. they've never heard of him.

What is up with that? When I get my next break from work, I'm going to try to call the author of that article.

I WANT TO KNOW WHAT KIND OF PEOPLE ARE READING THE REPORT!!! Is the peer group the people trying to kill airboating? Airboating leaders? Some of each? And I (or someone I trust) want to check the names to make sure any airboaters on the list are truly real people and truly represent our side.

You know and I know that airboats are loud. I've been hearing them for years. But they are not as loud as some of these whiney types are making them out to be. I have a feeling that report is in our favor. and they are trying to find a way to change that.

matt.
 
What is the FAU? Article says they are the ones in charge of the study. Is this a reputable organization? Who pays them? Just curious.
 
I would not read too much into this "peer review" thing, although I do not like the fact that we are not being allowed to review the data or its conclusions prior to its presentation to FFWCC. We need the study in order to prepare thoughtful comments in response to the study's presentation on September 21 in St. Petersburg.

We have to come to grips with the FACT that most airboats are much louder than they have to be. There are steps we all can take to reduce airboat sounds. We must set the example and we must be the leadership in this effort.

One thing is for certain - there is no "Them" and "Us" in this one. It is only "Us".
 
Big Daddy - You are a very kind person to say that many airboats are louder than they need to be. The same can be said for the way they are operated too. I'm the same sort of kind person. My boat is loud, and until I get some mufflers, I try to be considerate of others in the way I operate it.

But with the popularity of booming stereos a LOT of cars are louder than they need to be. A lot of motorcycles, powerboats, and airplanes are louder than they need to be. So as one kind person to another, I think we should stand our ground a little, and save that for the comprimise.

Someone who moves into a neighborhood near an airport sort of expects there to be some noise, and they learn to deal with it. I live near the flight path of the "executive" airport here in orlando, and I've learned to deal with the loud as hell leer jets that come in at all hours. I also live near Central Florida's only level 1 Trauma center hospital about 6 blocks from the heliport, and I have to say those helicopters over my house 24/7 took a little getting used to. But it was not hard. They are louder than they need to be too.

Someone who moves into WHAT THEY THINK is the serenity of a rural setting becomes dissappointed... and they are blaming us for their dissapointment!!!! That is where I have a probelm. It's THEIR dissapointment, and I'm being penalized.

grrrr.

matt.

edited for typos... I've been sandblasting and my hands are gritty and I'm trying not to get the sweaty grit all over my laptop.
 
BigDaddy":j8qqy64x said:
...although I do not like the fact that we are not being allowed to review the data or its conclusions prior to its presentation to FFWCC.

it has already been presented to the FFWCC.

I think you meant "its presentation by the FFWCC"

how can we be sure the 6 week delay is not being used to "adjust" the data to make it say what they want? Will the ORIGINAL data be published, and without seeing it first, how will we know it has not been adjusted? The only thing to answer that is we have to TRUST our government. That used to not be a hard thing for me to do, but lately, and with this issue, I don't trust the select few individuals who have their eyes and pencil erasers on that document.

Again, I want to know who - NAMES of people on the peer review board.

(mad) matt :)
 
I feel a LOT better!

I just got off the phone with Capt. Richard Moore. He answered his own phone! Pleasant chat with the guy.

The "peer review" is a review of the data from a scientific point of view, basically to check the math.

I'm going to guess at the spelling of the reviewers, he just told me the names over the phone.

The report is being reviewed by:
Dr. Mariano Verios of the FL D.O.T. - he is the person who studies traffic noise and designs the plantings of shrubbery or walls that go along roads to lessen the noise.

and

Professor Ricardo Bardisio of Virginia Tech. Not much other info about him.

These are the peers of the people who did the study. Not peers of the folks on either side of the issue.

I feel a lot better about this now, even though I still would like to see the report so when the FWC is listening on the 21st of sept. there can be some intelligent and thought out questions. It'll probably be the best chance to get a point across to them

Maybe someone will leak the info out in advance. :shock: Who knows where these guys live? Anyone know what day they pick up trash at the curb? Just kidding!!! (sort of)

Now you know what I know.

Oh, and I asked Capt. Moore about a job - it was a nice conversation with him. He seems like a VERY cool cat. But I did not want to interrupt his day, so I cut it short. Oh well.

:)

matt.
 
I feel a little better now also moodfood. Thanks for making that call and handling this matter in a cool way.
 
Matt, you totally ROCK! I really hope you follow up and end up working with/for the FWC, you'd be a most valuable ally, for sure.
It really eased my mind to hear that Capt. Moore is a reasonable and honorable guy, and that the info from the noise study probably can't be tweaked before it's presented in Sept.
No matter what the results of the study, we (the airboating community) should have some solutions and compromisable points to present at that meeting. Is that already in the works?
 
This is a copy of an email correspondence between myself (terriabw) and Mr. Moore. Thought all should see his response.


Terri,

We sought out technical peer reviewers to provide independent scientific review the data collected and methodologies used by the researchers at FAU. This is a formal scientific process used in many scientific studies. It has not gone out to people with stake in the airboat sound issue. We are trying to validate the research through scientific means.

One of the reviewers is an engineer with FDOT who is involved in sound research related to highway noise. The other is an engineering professor at Virginia Tech.



Captain Richard Moore

Boating Law Administrator

FWC Division of Law Enforcement




--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

From: ABW [mailto:abw@airboatworld.com]
Sent: Wednesday, August 17, 2005 11:01 AM
To: Moore, Richard
Subject: Re: Muffling Device Testing



taken from Citrus County Chronicle

Capt. Richard Moore said a draft report of the airboat sound study is being circulated for "peer review," but the report won't be made public until Florida Atlantic University researchers reveal the study's findings Sept. 21 in St. Petersburg Beach.



Mr. Moore,

Who is the "Peer Review"? I hope that as major stakeholders in this matter that representatives of the Florida Airboat Association have been included in this group.

Please provide me with a list of those individuals included in this review process.

Thank you

Terri Latner

Airboat World Magazine
 
Good one Terri! :) I like the way he refers to airboat sound instead of airboat 'noise'. Unless he says that on purpose like he's playing both sides of the fence, it gives a little clue to his own personal stance on the issue.

After I spoke to him this morning on the phone, I dropped him a little thankyou note for taking my call. Of course, as when around ANY fwc officer, I still inqure about working there. I could not pass up the chance when talking to Capt. Moore. The desire to work there is growing in me again. And I had a chance to meet "the boss".

I was a little surprised to get a note back from him... and I especially liked the positive tone both in the voice conversation and his email. I thought I'd share that here too... I know many are really down on the FWC, and while they've not been quite as low in my book, they are quickly making good points from my point of view.

He echoes some of the stuff Big Daddy mentions, and goes a little further too. And this is info straight from the boss horse's mouth! (No disrespect to Capt. Moore, of course) I think there are some clues here as to what is in the report.

below is his reply and below that my original note to him:


From: "Moore, Richard" <richard.moore@MyFWC.com>
Date: Wed, 17 Aug 2005 13:24:31 -0400
To: Matt Hasty <matt_hasty@mac.com>
Cc: "
Subject: RE: thanks for the phone call
Matt,
First on the airboat issue, I don't think the legislature would stand for a ban of airboats in Florida, and that it what it would ultimately take for something that drastic to happen. It is critical, though, that airboaters work hard to reduce sound levels. There is no "silver bullet" to solve the problem, but I and many others are convinced that there are several incremental steps that can be taken to reduce, if not eliminate, the dissatisfaction expressed nearly every day by waterfront homeowners and traditional boaters in Florida. Putting on good quality, quiet mufflers is a good first step. Traveling at slower speeds, especially around homes will also help. Finally, avoiding the temptation to run dry, power load, and stomp on the throttle to get on plane all make a big difference in the overall sound levels generated by airboats.

We need individuals who are avid airboaters to help convince other airboaters to modify behavior some. This will help reduce the airboat sound conflict and make everyone's lives better.

As far as getting in touch with a recruiter, I have copied Officer Kathleen Kelley who works as our recruiter (among other duties) in your area. I suspect she will initiate contact with you to follow up on your request.

Thanks for your support.

Captain Richard Moore
Boating Law Administrator
FWC Division of Law Enforcement

-----Original Message-----
From: Matt Hasty [mailto:matt_hasty@mac.com]
Sent: Wednesday, August 17, 2005 11:35 AM
To: Moore, Richard
Subject: thanks for the phone call

Capt. Moore -
Just a note to say how very impressed I am that you answered your own phone, and had the answer to my question right at hand. I am a very responsible boater, and this noise issue seems to have a veiled goal of banning airboats altogether. Speaking to you today, not only put my own mind at ease, but many of my airboating friends too.

I wish I could have gone into much more detail about my thoughts of applying for an enforcement position. I do have one quick qustion you may be able to answer:
How well do you think a 44 year old man would do in your program?

If you have any recruiters I would love to talk to them. Please forward this message to them. Every time I see an officer out in the field, I make a point to ask him or her how they like their job. I get a wide array of answers. Mostly positive though :)

thanks again. I'm always impressed by a true class act.

matt.
 
Hello . Fellow swamp heads and swamp -et s .I will make some poeple mad but 90 db 50 ft not going to change. It will be inforce some areas more than others. Fwc been pretty cool here . they are nice and do understand our deal But i lived in a county that already has done here what they are going to do to yall .Just a thought .OK This is big deal for us . show up that morning at fwc at St pete be polite and nice .And say we are here to see the report that effects only us peers , one woman change the school . what do a thousand tax paying boat owners do. It will cost what 100 bucks now ,it will cost you a lot more later .Being respectful.is cridicul . Just a fart in the wind but the smell will linger .Make it a meet and greet . :shock:not much traffic were it is sort of a dead end .
 
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