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Looks Like I'ma gonna be a Caddy Guy - Now What?

Slidin Gator

Well-known member
1 eye,
What sensor are you talking about? O2, Cam, Crank, all of the above?
I was referring to the o2 sensor. There is bosch and NTK, NTK is supposedly the better sensor. This is for a holley efi. Not sure about a stock harness if that is what you're running.

I ran a bosch for several years and did not realize my head had cracked. I a very rough better in the gulf it went out, I believe because of the moister in the exhaust. Either one may have gone bad in that situation. The NTK is what is recommended for forced induction and it handle the higher exhaust temp better.

Damn OEG, Those NTK O2 sensors better be worth it, $650 for a pair of them🐀🐀🐀's!

Here is the bill of materials I am coming up with for the Holley Dominator EFI system. I am going with the Dominator as all the lower cost solutions only support a single O2 sensor. It does not make any sense to me to just "Assume" one bank is running just like the monitored one👨‍🚒 I guess that was Holley's plan to push folks to the higher price hardware:unsure:

Holley Dominator EFI BOM.jpg

If anyone can buy this for cheaper I am ALL🦻's.

I'm sure I'm missing another $1000 worth of stuff, starting with a fuel pump. I don't think I will buy the relay kits from Holley (radiator fan, fuel pump, electric auxiliary/cool down water pump etc.).

I will be running a belt driven water pump, but I am thinking of adding an in line electric water pump to circulate coolant after hot shut downs. In the dog hunting game, it is normal to run hard and then need to shut down quick (to listen for the dogs or keep from chopping them up in the prop). It would be ideal to maintain cooling fans and coolant circulation until cool down is complete. If anyone has done something similar, please chime in.
 

keys2pines

Well-known member
I will be running a belt driven water pump, but I am thinking of adding an in line electric water pump to circulate coolant after hot shut downs. In the dog hunting game, it is normal to run hard and then need to shut down quick (to listen for the dogs or keep from chopping them up in the prop). It would be ideal to maintain cooling fans and coolant circulation until cool down is complete. If anyone has done something similar, please chime in.
Not for an airboat, but on my turbo Camaro I had electric fans and a CSR electric water pump. After a run I could sit in the staging lane, turn the key on, and the car would cool all the way down to the bottom of the temp gauge rather quickly.
 

One Eyed Gator

Well-known member
Damn OEG, Those NTK O2 sensors better be worth it, $650 for a pair of them🐀🐀🐀's!

Here is the bill of materials I am coming up with for the Holley Dominator EFI system. I am going with the Dominator as all the lower cost solutions only support a single O2 sensor. It does not make any sense to me to just "Assume" one bank is running just like the monitored one👨‍🚒 I guess that was Holley's plan to push folks to the higher price hardware:unsure:

View attachment 97165

If anyone can buy this for cheaper I am ALL🦻's.

I'm sure I'm missing another $1000 worth of stuff, starting with a fuel pump. I don't think I will buy the relay kits from Holley (radiator fan, fuel pump, electric auxiliary/cool down water pump etc.).

I will be running a belt driven water pump, but I am thinking of adding an in line electric water pump to circulate coolant after hot shut downs. In the dog hunting game, it is normal to run hard and then need to shut down quick (to listen for the dogs or keep from chopping them up in the prop). It would be ideal to maintain cooling fans and coolant circulation until cool down is complete. If anyone has done something similar, please chime in.
Wow things have certain increased in cost also when I bought the system I did, 1 sensor came with it.
 

Slidin Gator

Well-known member
Wow things have certain increased in cost also when I bought the system I did, 1 sensor came with it.
They supply the Bosh O2 sensor with it, a second would be $184, the NTK is another $120. I guess I will have a spare Bosh to seal up and put in the parts box.
 

Slidin Gator

Well-known member
Called and talked to Holley to make sure the list was complete, of course he added to it. One Aux cable covers input (like the second O2 sensor). You have to buy another cable assembly to get all the extra output. Then he suggested plugs for the unused ports (J3&4). So here is the revised BOM.

Holley Dominator EFI BOM.jpg

This video has a good explanation of the differences between the 3 different multiport EFI solutions that Holley offers.

 

Slidin Gator

Well-known member
I've been standing by until July for my Discover credit card to start their 3-month 5% cash back deal for PayPal purchases, figured I could use a discount. Looked up my bill of materials today, Holley just increased pricing 5% across the board!

SOME OF AN ITCH!:cry:

Tell me we ain't getting played o_O

I guess I best get on with it. 💸

Just one question for the hive, 48 lb/hr injectors match up well with my 600 Hp max plans on 93 pump gas. But 62 lb/hr is what I would need to size for E85. I have no plans to put on any power adders, but I would like to have the ability to run Ethanol if possible (See my classified add, can't give it away).

I'm looking for any experience input getting a decent idle on gas with oversized injectors.
 

SWAMPHUNTER45

Well-known member
May as well burn it SG !

I just can’t wait to see that boat with the Cadillac crest affixed on that engine shroud.

Maybe you should name the rig “Reborn”
 

Slidin Gator

Well-known member
I just can’t wait to see that boat with the Cadillac crest affixed on that engine shroud.


Being the Caddy man, you are gonna have to send me some classic Cady emblems, a pair would be great for the coil covers. Otherwise, I might go with this one (dead spider included) just to troll ya😈



Cutlass.jpg


Maybe you should name the rig “Reborn”


Over my lifetime I think I've pretty much worn out the name "Phoenix", it seems like I always start with old stuff. Sometimes it takes me years to name something. Sometimes I never name it.

Cadulater
 

Slidin Gator

Well-known member
I spent more time on the phone with Holley today, made some adjustments to the parts list and pulled the trigger. The final BOM as ordered is below. For starters I was looking for larger injectors suitable for E85. The guy at Holley I talked to (Ethan) did a great job steering me in the right direction. First I told him I was looking for E85 to 650 Hp on a 418 LS3 turning to 5,800.

First he asked what intake manifold I would be using and I told him the 2008/2009 Escalade/Truck intake. He said the EV1 injectors in my previous BOM were too tall for this intake and I would be better off with EV6. Next he said to use 0.6 lb/(hr*hp) as the fuel requirement for E85 (48 lb/hr per injector at 650 Hp). But, you don't want them running flat out, so 80% duty cycle puts them at 60 + lb/hr minimum for E85 injector sizing, 70-80 lb/hr range preferred. Make sure to tell them Marine/Airboat application, Holley uses a 5% multiplier for marine duty cycle.

https://documents.holley.com/techlibrary_selecting_a_fuel_injector.pdf

Then I asked about idle control and issues, he said the Holley software allows for fuel pulse phasing based on crank/cam timing. So instead of spraying fuel continuously (with PWM), the fuel pulses can be synchronized with the intake valve to optimize idle. So cool, 76 lb is big enough to support E85 and still controllable at idle on gas.

Then I asked about High vs. Low impedance injectors for this application. The word impedance throws a lot of folks off, but basically means high or low resistance, the low impedance injector requires more power vs. the high impedance unit. High impedance is the standard for typical automotive applications. But, this limits how much power can flow through the solenoid, limiting how much fuel it can control. As the fuel flow rate increases, the solenoid needs more power to control. To support this on race applications they came up with the low impedance injector that can draw more power and support higher fuel flow. But, higher power draw does impact the PWM (pulse width modulated) drivers on the ECU.

As a point of reliability, my initial thinking was it is a tradeoff between lower power injectors that might clog and lower flow vs. the potential for an injector driver failure on the Dominator ECU. Honestly, If I was going to setup for low impedance, high power injectors I would probably use one Holley's injector driver so I didn't burn up my potted ECU due to running too hard in the sun.

The injectors he recommended are 76 lb/hr, High impedance, EV6 - Pico style that can support higher flow due to a difference in design. They are rated at this flow at 60 PSI. This is a key point, fuel pressure. I am designing for reliability, which means a clogged fuel filter. I will be including a fuel pressure sensor to monitor fuel pressure and use that to inform my tunes. If I set my system up for 55-60 PSI fuel pressure, these injectors will support full power on 93 gas and well under 40 PSI. This gives me margin, that's what I want.

Also note the FM at the end of the injector set part number. They offer 2 variations on this set of injectors.
* 522-768X = set of 8 injectors for $387, factory spec 5%.
* 522-768XFM = set of 8 injectors, $525, flow matched to 2%.
Search The Holley Website

For all the other money I'm spending, yep, $150 for flow matched injectors seems valid. I'm not going to be monitoring each individual cylinder, so whatever each O2 tells me the bank is doing, I want to assume all 4 are similar.

The last problem was the harness, my previous BOM listed a full ECU/Harness kit, but that was for the EV1 injectors. Ethan resolved that with a new ECU and harness part number to match the shorter EV6 injectors. Finally, he asked what MAP sensor I would be using, I told him stock, turns out Holley's harness is set up for a Holley MAP, so had to add another adapter.

Finally (this is where I was surprised), the grand total I came up with was less than what I had lined up previously. Then he gave me the car dealer sales push, he could give me a discount to purchase the whole setup now. Good thing I was ready to buy.

Long story short, call Holley, don't screw around with Summit, JEGs etc. If you want to buy their stuff, call them, figure out what you need, negotiate for a 10% discount for a full setup and buy it.

Here is the final BOM on order (unfortunately the ECU is back ordered until October, good thing I don't need it quick!).

Holley Dominator Final BOM.jpg
 
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FISHSTICKER

Well-known member
Can't wait for you to get this pony saddled up. You have someone with the brains to figure all this Holly tuning out or you going to learned it you self?
 

Slidin Gator

Well-known member
Can't wait for you to get this pony saddled up. You have someone with the brains to figure all this Holly tuning out or you going to learned it you self?
Several tuners locally that know the system well. I’m gonna use professional help to get going until I learn the setup. My plan is to break the motor in and get it tuned in on the dyno at the shop that built the long block, hopefully later this year.
 

Slidin Gator

Well-known member
Welp, Santa Claus showed up, he's bald and drives a UPS truck, gotta love Christmas in August 🥳

So in the words of my ole buddy Dean when I told him my new wife was pregnant:
Well son, you done fixed yourself good this time

Lotsa wire vs. my other toys, this all probably leads to me being one of those dickwads carrying around a laptop to tweak and twiddle. The wire harnesses look professional for sure. This should keep me busy for a while for sure.

IMG_0268.jpg


IMG_0277.jpg
 

Slidin Gator

Well-known member
The Tooth Fairy came today with the last of the essentials, the ECU. Damn thing is heavy, something like 3-1/2 lbs. I'm sure I can handle the weight!

Welp, no rest for the weary, time to get back on this project for sure.

Holley Dominator #1.jpg


Holley Dominator #2.jpg

Holley Dominator #3.jpg
 

Slidin Gator

Well-known member
How many years before you get it running?
Sounding like every damn project manager I ever worked with, all schedule this, time is money that 🤬

The local motorcycle shop used to sell T shirts with their name and "We'll fix it, even if it takes every last nickel you got". Same thing with time, she will get done even if she takes every last minute I got:)

So getting started, putting on the oil pan, anyone know what these ports are for (L92 block)? The oil pan goes around them, so they are on the outside, the dipstick has a separate port through the block at an angle.

Oil Fitting Hole #1.jpg


Oil Fitting Hole #2.jpg
 

Slidin Gator

Well-known member
My next question was what is this sensor on the LS3 oil pan? Some googling and I found this is an oil level switch, sounds like a useful input to the ECU, what I do with it is TBD, but I'm thinking of a simple dummy light setup. This seems like a yellow light, don't let off fast, but find somewhere to shut down.

Oil Level Switch #1.jpg

Oil Level Switch #2.jpg

Oil Level Switch #3.jpg
 

Slidin Gator

Well-known member
The last item is the oil pressure regulating valve. The L92 truck engine has a pressure relief valve built into the oil pan.

L92 Oil Pressure Relief.jpg


The LS3 Oil pan does not have any oil pressure control devices.


LS3 Pan.jpg


I don't want to have to pull the pan to service the oil pressure relief valve, so the LS3 pan is the solution. But now I have to figure out an external relief solution and thinking it has something to do with this cross over block.


IMG_1338.jpg
 
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