A
Anonymous
Guest
Is anyone using them? And if not, why not ?
BF
BF
-
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BF I have always used a marine radio and a handheld and one in the truck. Less crowded than CB, about the same power levels as Ham radio, good range and they are pretty cheep.
Installation makes it work or not work though, it's one of those things thet ya dont get right just cause ya want it right. It has to meet standards of installation and tuning. Neatness and position counts tremendously.
Stay away from anything Rado Shack. For coax, find a shop that sells the highest quality "Belden" brand double insulated coax you can get. Same for marine antenna, get the best you can find. Its 50% radio, 50% antenna, 50% installation and 50% neatness. Point being any one of them can kill 50% of how well it works out.
Your going to find dead spots where it wont talk just like Call Phones and CB so it wont eliminate dead zones, but you can minimize them with good installation.
I'm high on them.
Scotty
Installation makes it work or not work though, it's one of those things thet ya dont get right just cause ya want it right. It has to meet standards of installation and tuning. Neatness and position counts tremendously.
Stay away from anything Rado Shack. For coax, find a shop that sells the highest quality "Belden" brand double insulated coax you can get. Same for marine antenna, get the best you can find. Its 50% radio, 50% antenna, 50% installation and 50% neatness. Point being any one of them can kill 50% of how well it works out.
Your going to find dead spots where it wont talk just like Call Phones and CB so it wont eliminate dead zones, but you can minimize them with good installation.
I'm high on them.
Scotty
basketcase0302
Well-known member
BF,
Had the VHF on the boat since day one, (also consider it part of my hurricane gear). CB radio just won't "reach-out" down here in the woods, (plus, you can never find any English speaking on them down here)!
I've "reached-out" 30-45 miles with it before from Big Cypress. And if nothing else the NOAA weather is helpful at times!
Basketcase
Had the VHF on the boat since day one, (also consider it part of my hurricane gear). CB radio just won't "reach-out" down here in the woods, (plus, you can never find any English speaking on them down here)!
I've "reached-out" 30-45 miles with it before from Big Cypress. And if nothing else the NOAA weather is helpful at times!
Basketcase
A
Anonymous
Guest
I agree, I think a good VHF radio is one of the most important pieces of equipment you can own. I have a little Icom myself. Having NOAA Weather is a big plus, and they're indispensible in an emergency.
Whitebear is kind of going in the direction I wanted with this thread .... where to mount one, how to install it, where is the best place to mount the antenna, what's the best type of antenna ..... things like that.
BF
Whitebear is kind of going in the direction I wanted with this thread .... where to mount one, how to install it, where is the best place to mount the antenna, what's the best type of antenna ..... things like that.
BF
Icom is one of the best of the import radios. They have a great rep. They also make the sets sold under sveral other names.
Uniden is anolther one thats likely the best bang for the buck.
In this day of SMT assembly and electronics there won't be much technical difference in units cause they will all pretty much use the same chips. Most will have Wx A, or the whole range of 5 Wx channels. Features like a PA are worth having as is a foreward/refected power meter. Though analog meters are being ditched in most radios now days.
To work the best, your antenna will have to compete with your white light for the highest point on the boat. Both white lights and antennas take a beathing up there, but that is the best location.I have seen citations issued because folks had the antenna outside going up at the top of the cage and whe whitelight inside the cage. It's is of course an idiots game but they got the power to write so the law says on the highest part of the boat and inside the cage isn't the highest part of the boat. Small minds but oh well.
Remember most folks dont run radio suppressing ignition wires on their airboat engines so if you add a radio you may need to change the plug wires. The double insulated coax will drop the rf static that the coil and generator create as well as the real static generated by the charge build up from hull moving through the water. If theres still a whine or you actually have a generator instead of an alternator you may need a noise suppressor on it.
Use at least a #10 wire for your power. It works best if it is the only wire to the battery and not routed through other switches and connections. Same for the radio's negative or ground wire. Bigger is better.
Lots of folks mount their radio under the operators seat cause it shields it from rain and impacts. Sure isn't very convenient to change channels or any settings in this position. If an insturment panel is being made from scratch I like it right in the panel. I don't think Id hang it off of the outside of the panel, thats looking to get drug off by a tree or whatever.
Back when I was flying I had a SoftCom intercom unit that I could run the radio with a PTT (push to talk) button on the rudder stick and a headset for me and passenger so we could talk with eachother or I could use the radio. We could both listen to the radio but only my mic would be transferred to the radio if I pushed the PTT button. With well padded or noise canceling headsets it all worked great on the airboat.
Some of the antennas or maybe even all of them need to be tuned to the individual installation. This requires a forward/reflected power meter or a good field strength meter. Trimming the antenna is tricky since if ya go too far its difficult to add that last little piece ya cut off back on. Some have slip fittings so you dont have to be exact with the cutting you can cut for the best length when in the center of the coupling then adjust the slip to peak that last little bit of power. Reflected power should always be 1:1 but some of the shorter matched antennas will never meet that. 1.5:1 is about the best ya can do with some of them.
Remember on a boat you don't have an actual ground, so you can't use a car type antenna. Everything has to be grounded together with the largest wire. I like #10 multistrand for the grounds. If you have a metal hull use the hull as the common ground point, if not you may have to add a metal plate that will be submerged when underway.
Airboats are somewhat unique in that they can be under way and dry as a bone. Theres no real solution. Reception and transmission needs a good ground but proper marine antennas will help 'cause they account for the lack of ground in their design.
Make sure all the metal rigging is bonded to itself and to the common ground. Use the little brained cable pieces just like a car does, even though theres a bolt there and it all measures contenuity on an multimeter, still bond everything with the little braids, and I mean everything! Points often missed are rudders and rudder control sticks all need to be bonded across the moveable joints. Anything metallic should have a ground bonding point put on it. These wont prevent operation, they quieten the background noise so you can hear those weak signals.
Now thats the "short" course hahahahahah
Scotty
Uniden is anolther one thats likely the best bang for the buck.
In this day of SMT assembly and electronics there won't be much technical difference in units cause they will all pretty much use the same chips. Most will have Wx A, or the whole range of 5 Wx channels. Features like a PA are worth having as is a foreward/refected power meter. Though analog meters are being ditched in most radios now days.
To work the best, your antenna will have to compete with your white light for the highest point on the boat. Both white lights and antennas take a beathing up there, but that is the best location.I have seen citations issued because folks had the antenna outside going up at the top of the cage and whe whitelight inside the cage. It's is of course an idiots game but they got the power to write so the law says on the highest part of the boat and inside the cage isn't the highest part of the boat. Small minds but oh well.
Remember most folks dont run radio suppressing ignition wires on their airboat engines so if you add a radio you may need to change the plug wires. The double insulated coax will drop the rf static that the coil and generator create as well as the real static generated by the charge build up from hull moving through the water. If theres still a whine or you actually have a generator instead of an alternator you may need a noise suppressor on it.
Use at least a #10 wire for your power. It works best if it is the only wire to the battery and not routed through other switches and connections. Same for the radio's negative or ground wire. Bigger is better.
Lots of folks mount their radio under the operators seat cause it shields it from rain and impacts. Sure isn't very convenient to change channels or any settings in this position. If an insturment panel is being made from scratch I like it right in the panel. I don't think Id hang it off of the outside of the panel, thats looking to get drug off by a tree or whatever.
Back when I was flying I had a SoftCom intercom unit that I could run the radio with a PTT (push to talk) button on the rudder stick and a headset for me and passenger so we could talk with eachother or I could use the radio. We could both listen to the radio but only my mic would be transferred to the radio if I pushed the PTT button. With well padded or noise canceling headsets it all worked great on the airboat.
Some of the antennas or maybe even all of them need to be tuned to the individual installation. This requires a forward/reflected power meter or a good field strength meter. Trimming the antenna is tricky since if ya go too far its difficult to add that last little piece ya cut off back on. Some have slip fittings so you dont have to be exact with the cutting you can cut for the best length when in the center of the coupling then adjust the slip to peak that last little bit of power. Reflected power should always be 1:1 but some of the shorter matched antennas will never meet that. 1.5:1 is about the best ya can do with some of them.
Remember on a boat you don't have an actual ground, so you can't use a car type antenna. Everything has to be grounded together with the largest wire. I like #10 multistrand for the grounds. If you have a metal hull use the hull as the common ground point, if not you may have to add a metal plate that will be submerged when underway.
Airboats are somewhat unique in that they can be under way and dry as a bone. Theres no real solution. Reception and transmission needs a good ground but proper marine antennas will help 'cause they account for the lack of ground in their design.
Make sure all the metal rigging is bonded to itself and to the common ground. Use the little brained cable pieces just like a car does, even though theres a bolt there and it all measures contenuity on an multimeter, still bond everything with the little braids, and I mean everything! Points often missed are rudders and rudder control sticks all need to be bonded across the moveable joints. Anything metallic should have a ground bonding point put on it. These wont prevent operation, they quieten the background noise so you can hear those weak signals.
Now thats the "short" course hahahahahah
Scotty
A
Anonymous
Guest
Great information, Scotty ...
On grounding, obviously a fiberglass hull presents it's own set of problems with that. I'll be rewireing shortly and I'm thinking of running a very heavy shielded wire both forward and aft in the boat, grounded to both the rigging and battery negative, and terminating in a buss, so that I will only have short runs to make from nav-lights and such to find a solid ground. That will let me run a single, switched wire to control anything I have on either end of the boat. Should make troubleshooting a lot simpler too.
I like the idea of a folding whip for the radio, mounted on the side of the cage, but extending several inches above it. Your lesson on grounding is well taken .... it'll be attached to the aft ground buss also.
On grounding, obviously a fiberglass hull presents it's own set of problems with that. I'll be rewireing shortly and I'm thinking of running a very heavy shielded wire both forward and aft in the boat, grounded to both the rigging and battery negative, and terminating in a buss, so that I will only have short runs to make from nav-lights and such to find a solid ground. That will let me run a single, switched wire to control anything I have on either end of the boat. Should make troubleshooting a lot simpler too.
I like the idea of a folding whip for the radio, mounted on the side of the cage, but extending several inches above it. Your lesson on grounding is well taken .... it'll be attached to the aft ground buss also.
I like ground buss. If you can find a 1" by something copper bar to run it can be drilled and tapped and ya dont have to have nuts on the other side.just a star lock washer and a dot of loctite. Makes things very neat.
I didnt mention it above but old school folks put switches in the ground side of things. Thats a bad idea cause it leaves hot wires run all over the place. Always switch the (+) side of the power. That way if the wires get shorted or theres an impact there is no hot light or radio or whatever to start a fire.
Scotty
I didnt mention it above but old school folks put switches in the ground side of things. Thats a bad idea cause it leaves hot wires run all over the place. Always switch the (+) side of the power. That way if the wires get shorted or theres an impact there is no hot light or radio or whatever to start a fire.
Scotty
Jdotson
It's not as daunting a task as it sounds, it's just detailed work. About the same tech level of overhauling an engine. Nothing super human. Handhelds dont have the same power output as the fixed units. Handhelds are great for boat to boat and around camp, especially on their low power setting they are great for immediate local chat and coordination.
All the labor of making it work right though, is worth it the first time you pick up the mic and holler for help and get an immediate response from someone 50 miles away and they call locals out to you in just minutes. I have never needed mine in that capacity but to me it sure is a big piece of mind to have it just in case. Theres still a LOT of places cell phones won't work.
It's not as daunting a task as it sounds, it's just detailed work. About the same tech level of overhauling an engine. Nothing super human. Handhelds dont have the same power output as the fixed units. Handhelds are great for boat to boat and around camp, especially on their low power setting they are great for immediate local chat and coordination.
All the labor of making it work right though, is worth it the first time you pick up the mic and holler for help and get an immediate response from someone 50 miles away and they call locals out to you in just minutes. I have never needed mine in that capacity but to me it sure is a big piece of mind to have it just in case. Theres still a LOT of places cell phones won't work.
A
Anonymous
Guest
Swamp, I got one of those bridges too (Hwy. 220) ..... if you go above it on low tide, you better have someplace in mind to hang-out if you stay too long. Did that once ..... 
.
.I glad you brought this up. I've been trying to find out how many feet of coax you can add from the radio to the antenna?
I'm building a bar on my dock and would like to have one there, and put the antenna up as high as possible. Do you think the cable that comes with the unit would be high enough? and how many feet is standard? If I use the standard length
does anyone know how fair I could talk and listen? I would like to cover around a 15 mile area.
I've have CB with linear and do know some about them, but I think I would like the VHF instead.
Phil
I'm building a bar on my dock and would like to have one there, and put the antenna up as high as possible. Do you think the cable that comes with the unit would be high enough? and how many feet is standard? If I use the standard length
does anyone know how fair I could talk and listen? I would like to cover around a 15 mile area.
I've have CB with linear and do know some about them, but I think I would like the VHF instead.
Phil
Phil,
If you maintain a proper swr you should be fine:
http://www.513repeater.org/elmer/swr/swrindex.html
jim
If you maintain a proper swr you should be fine:
http://www.513repeater.org/elmer/swr/swrindex.html
jim
Daddy Dave
Well-known member
Glad to see this thread thriving. VHF-FM radios are terrific because they offer "stand alone" communication abilities. No need to have a cell tower nearby or to have a NEXTEL priority during crazy times. My unit is a waterproof Lowrance mounted on the outside of the driver seat framing so the knobs are reachable. The antenna that works the best for me is a Shakespere base load with ss48" whip. It's tunable and works pretty fair. The rachet mount is located on the cage center line and is below the top cage bands so it can be lowered when going under the Hoover Bridge or running through thick woods. There is no marine reg that requires the 360 all around light to the the highest piece of equipment on any vessel.
A
Anonymous
Guest
I love the Shakespere 48" ..... my flag is on the right side of the cage, and the VHF antenna is on the left side, nearer the radio.
I had a radio guy tell me that a carbon fiber prop spinning nearby might make my radio a lot more directional ..... that the prop might block a signal from the direction between the prop and the antenna. I'll post that if it happens, but I doubt it.
BF
I had a radio guy tell me that a carbon fiber prop spinning nearby might make my radio a lot more directional ..... that the prop might block a signal from the direction between the prop and the antenna. I'll post that if it happens, but I doubt it.
BF
It can have an SWR effect plus its conceivable it might generate some static, however as long as your antenna is ABOVE the prop any directivity it adds will be an increase in range not a decrease in it. I would suspect the metal tips and leading edge to have more effect than the whole rest of the prop though. Would be interesting to to some field strength analysis with it. If ya havent done it by April I'll bring some goodies by and well do a chart on it with prop running and not running.
On the second thought, if your cage is properly ground bonded I would be rather suspect of any claims about the prop makeing any difference, but we can get some definitive info for ya.
Scotty
On the second thought, if your cage is properly ground bonded I would be rather suspect of any claims about the prop makeing any difference, but we can get some definitive info for ya.
Scotty
A
Anonymous
Guest
Thanks Scotty ...... sounds like a plan.
I think the effect, if any, would be very thinly dirrectional, and may even be pretty transient depending on RPM. Worth looking into I suppose, but I'm not at all concerned.
BF
I think the effect, if any, would be very thinly dirrectional, and may even be pretty transient depending on RPM. Worth looking into I suppose, but I'm not at all concerned.
BF