A
Anonymous
Guest
my father and i both have been tolrd both that in our lyc. 0540 we need to run aircraft m/o 50 weight is that true or does all 50 weight work
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marshmaster pat
Well-known member
Automotive oil will not stand up to the heat that aircraft engines make.
Use either an aircraft mineral oil or an ashless dispersent, 50W.
Use either an aircraft mineral oil or an ashless dispersent, 50W.
rick
Administrator
Here's a link that describes aircraft oils pretty good:
http://www.swaviator.com/html/issueja02/Hangar7802.html
http://www.swaviator.com/html/issueja02/Hangar7802.html
Waterthunder
Well-known member
Good info Rick. I don't know which one I hear more debates about. Aviation oil versus automotive oil or the old aviation fuel verses racing fuel. I have always run the Valvoline straight 50 or 60 weight oil in aircraft motors and all my automotive race motors. I learned allot about multi viscosity oils when I was building off shore APBA racing engines. Don't like multi viscosity oils and I will not use them. When a motor would be forced to finish a race while over heating you wouldn't believe what happened to all of the synthetic and multi viscosity oils it was terrifying how they broke down and separated. But the old cheap single viscosity valvoline remained an oil and did its job. I could see an issue with these oils in an aircraft motor due to the heat and air-cooled factor. However I know a straight weight racing Valvoline will work because it will not break down.
We use either Mobil 1 & Mobil Delvac 1 in JD tractor, Kubota rtv, Dmaxgmc, 93 Suburban, 98 Jeep Cherokee, Honda crv, JD Gator & the Lawnmower.
Also used aero syn in the Cessna 421 with the big Continentals we used to operate but they quit making that stuff & we went back to reg oil.
The 93 Sub has been run with busted hose 2wice & w/o water pump once over a hundred miles & I still believe Delvac 1 saved the engine. With 200k mi it still uses abt a qt per 5k miles. We chg oil in gas engines at 20k mi & diesel at 15k.
Notice too there is no Airboat yet in the bunch but we will be dissappointed to say the least if our oil habit must be altered for a Lycoming Boat which may be the way we'll go. May be. Don't know yet if it will last very long chugging along slow for hours like I like todo.
Looking more like a Mercedes 5cyl diesel all the time?
Thanx, Gben
Also used aero syn in the Cessna 421 with the big Continentals we used to operate but they quit making that stuff & we went back to reg oil.
The 93 Sub has been run with busted hose 2wice & w/o water pump once over a hundred miles & I still believe Delvac 1 saved the engine. With 200k mi it still uses abt a qt per 5k miles. We chg oil in gas engines at 20k mi & diesel at 15k.
Notice too there is no Airboat yet in the bunch but we will be dissappointed to say the least if our oil habit must be altered for a Lycoming Boat which may be the way we'll go. May be. Don't know yet if it will last very long chugging along slow for hours like I like todo.
Looking more like a Mercedes 5cyl diesel all the time?
Thanx, Gben
basketcase0302
Well-known member
Waterthunder,
Agreed!
I've ran Valvoline 50 wt.(not multi vicosity) here in south Florida for over 20 years in the most extreme of conditions,(at idle for hours in 98 degree temperature +95% humidity).
Straight Valvoline 50 wt. after 20,000 miles on the daily driver will appear clear and still hold its vicosity!
Just my 2 cents again!
Jeff
Agreed!
I've ran Valvoline 50 wt.(not multi vicosity) here in south Florida for over 20 years in the most extreme of conditions,(at idle for hours in 98 degree temperature +95% humidity).
Straight Valvoline 50 wt. after 20,000 miles on the daily driver will appear clear and still hold its vicosity!
Just my 2 cents again!
Jeff
Waterthunder
Well-known member
Synthetic oils work great in a reasonable application and they will save your motor in most cases if you loose oil pressure. However if you really over heat and cook a motor with Mobil 1 or any other synthetic. When you tear down that motor apart you will not believe what the oil turns into. Grant it no idiot should ever reach that point but I found people do and on a regular basis. A synthetic oil completely separates you get a tar sludge in the bottom of the pan and a clear water like substance floating on top. And you can’t imagine the stench. The biggest reason I don't like synthetics is because any motor with .0015 or more rod and main bearing bearing clearance it's very hard to get good oil pressure with a low viscosity oil especially a synthetic. So I use regular oil and change it regularly no problems yet.
marshmaster pat
Well-known member
Waterthunder - Ignorance on my part here, so I have to ask. Will most automotive engines reach 400 degrees temperature on the heads?
I know that when we had CHT gauges on that 0-540 we did reach that a time or two. Temperature at 350 to 375 was not uncommon and when we hammered on it hard in thick marsh it would push near 400. I know that lots of aircraft engines run steady at 325 to 375 CHT for 50 hours between oil changes.
I know of one occasion where temps on one reached around 500 when the lean out control got fiddled with and set wrong, way too lean. It separated a jug from the cylinder sleeve, but nothing else was wrong.
The only fluid running through that was oil. I was told only aircraft grade oil hold up to 375 for hours at a time.
I know that when we had CHT gauges on that 0-540 we did reach that a time or two. Temperature at 350 to 375 was not uncommon and when we hammered on it hard in thick marsh it would push near 400. I know that lots of aircraft engines run steady at 325 to 375 CHT for 50 hours between oil changes.
I know of one occasion where temps on one reached around 500 when the lean out control got fiddled with and set wrong, way too lean. It separated a jug from the cylinder sleeve, but nothing else was wrong.
The only fluid running through that was oil. I was told only aircraft grade oil hold up to 375 for hours at a time.
Thanx KC for the thread & thunder for answers I've been looking for.
Many of the racing folks that we see at Barberville & other places have been there done that stuff & one is not going to pry the Valvoline heavy out of their hands. And for good reason, it works in the hot & heavy.
I am not one togo the risky & go with tried & proven most always.
But one more dum ques, Is everyone using avgas with the a/c engines or is their an alternative?
Thanx, Gben
Many of the racing folks that we see at Barberville & other places have been there done that stuff & one is not going to pry the Valvoline heavy out of their hands. And for good reason, it works in the hot & heavy.
I am not one togo the risky & go with tried & proven most always.
But one more dum ques, Is everyone using avgas with the a/c engines or is their an alternative?
Thanx, Gben
A
Anonymous
Guest
After breaking in my 0-540, I looked up the Shell semi syn...20w-50w.....on Shells web page, it compaired the regular 50w, including the boiling point......when I put the semi syn 20/50, my oil temp. dropped 20 deg......The stuff aint cheap.....$48.00 a case at consolidated oil here in Ft Lauderdale.....
I have 11 years running now, on my airboat, running the crap out of it.....no cylinder problems......
I have 11 years running now, on my airboat, running the crap out of it.....no cylinder problems......
marshmaster pat
Well-known member
Davie - From what I have read that Shell Multi is a good oil and was developed especially for aircraft engines, air cooled, high temperature operations. Lots of plane owners on the Lycoming discussion groups have reported the same thing happened. Temperatures for normal operation dropped 10 to 30 degrees. It is supposed to be good stuff, but you are the first airboater I have heard that is running it.
Another thing they post is that after breaking in with mineral oil for about 50 hours, switch to the shell multi grade, and it seems to set the rings alittle better as consumption almost stops. Then lots of them are switching to the 50 ashless because of the cost.
I have looked at it but have not found it that cheap over here. I change oil every 25 hours of running cross country and that multi grade was near $4.25 a quart last time I checked. Standard 50W is $2.95. I am cheap, so guess what I use.
I was always concerned that running hard with high CHT and oil temps at near max for extended periods, what those non aircraft oils would do.
Another thing they post is that after breaking in with mineral oil for about 50 hours, switch to the shell multi grade, and it seems to set the rings alittle better as consumption almost stops. Then lots of them are switching to the 50 ashless because of the cost.
I have looked at it but have not found it that cheap over here. I change oil every 25 hours of running cross country and that multi grade was near $4.25 a quart last time I checked. Standard 50W is $2.95. I am cheap, so guess what I use.
I was always concerned that running hard with high CHT and oil temps at near max for extended periods, what those non aircraft oils would do.
Pat,
I think I have mentioned before that my son has a highly modified AEIO540 (parallel valve) in his airshow airplane. His engines are made from all new parts and have a lot of labor and aftermarket parts in them. Needless to say they are expen$ive. He runs full throttle and max rpm for the show.
He uses Aeroshell 100 ashless dispersant oil (after break in) which is straight 50W. He has tried the multigrade, but I don't remember what his comment was about it. Lycon in Visalia CA builds his engines and they would be a good source of information for advice about oil for a 540.
Jim
I think I have mentioned before that my son has a highly modified AEIO540 (parallel valve) in his airshow airplane. His engines are made from all new parts and have a lot of labor and aftermarket parts in them. Needless to say they are expen$ive. He runs full throttle and max rpm for the show.
He uses Aeroshell 100 ashless dispersant oil (after break in) which is straight 50W. He has tried the multigrade, but I don't remember what his comment was about it. Lycon in Visalia CA builds his engines and they would be a good source of information for advice about oil for a 540.
Jim
Waterthunder
Well-known member
I’m sure most will disagree with this but car motors reach far higher exhaust temperatures and their components also run much hotter. Because they are water cooled they can run much leaner and more efficiently and have the ability to run closer to the temperature that parts fail because the have a cooling system to control the heat. Combustion chamber temps exceed 750 degrees and on nitrous motors EGT’s regularly exceed 1,200 Deg in a hot rodded Power Stroke Diesel the EGT’s can reach 1,500 Degrees but like in aircraft motors you must run extra diesel fuel to prevent damage. These conditions would turn an air-cooled motor into a melted blob of metal. This is the main reason air-cooled motors must run rich and inefficiently because the excess unburned fuel helps cool the motor.
This is a picture of an engine instrument panel in a twin at cruise. The left engine is lean of peak egt and the right is rich of peak egt (notice the difference in fuel flows). They are producing the same power, with the left needing more throttle to do so. The egt's are close. (1585 and 1595)
The entire article can be found here:
http://www.avweb.com/news/columns/182084-1.html
Lean of peak operation is not recommended for carbureted engines.
edit: Waterthunder, I am not disagreeing with what you say as far as excess fuel is needed to cool an aircooled engine at high power settings. The egt's and cht's are pretty high in these engines though.
Jim
The entire article can be found here:
http://www.avweb.com/news/columns/182084-1.html
Lean of peak operation is not recommended for carbureted engines.
edit: Waterthunder, I am not disagreeing with what you say as far as excess fuel is needed to cool an aircooled engine at high power settings. The egt's and cht's are pretty high in these engines though.
Jim
Waterthunder
Well-known member
Great technical article most people don’t realize when you make more power and generate more heat in an air cooled motor you need more fuel to cool it. However if you back off the throttle ever so slightly your EGT drops enough you can start leaning out your fuel mixture and still run cooler EGT’s and almost make the same power. I really only know about jetting practices at sea level or I should say ground level. When I ran Pro Mod or any other competitive class I always had to calculate the corrected altitude (to find out how much oxygen was available) at the track we were racing because of the various altitudes of different tracks. No way can you Jet a nitrous car for Gainesville Florida the run it at Norwalk Ohio you would end up over a 100HP down and have a lazy fat pig of a motor. If you did it the other way run a Norwalk tune up at Gainesville you would grenade your motor by half track. I grasp the lean fuel practice theory for planes in flight but fortunately don’t have to utilize them in a boat that will never see over a 1,000 above sea level. It’s hard enough to make reliable horse power in an airboat at sea level. I defiantly hope to never find myself above sea level in an airboat because I know it’s going to hurt.
Waterthunder
Well-known member
I beg to differ you are an expert on finding ton’s of useful information. Which is a rarity in today’s world because most people are great at finding useless information.
I did a little more research on aircraft engine oils, they are controlled by a mil spec, they do NOT have detergents in them. Some are AD which is ashless dispersent.
Shell oil reccommends that their aircraft oil NOT be used in an automotive engine even if it is converted for aircraft use.
Jim
Shell oil reccommends that their aircraft oil NOT be used in an automotive engine even if it is converted for aircraft use.
Jim