-
If you log in, the ads disappear in the forum and gallery. If you need help logging in or getting registered, send request to: webmaster@southernairboat.com
powershift props
- Thread starter landon
- Start date
Airboatcapt2
Well-known member
I know alot of people are worried!
ShadowGrass Shooter
Well-known member
Is there a problem or anything sharable on this forum? I have a Powershift coming on my 572 in April and you guys have me worried. Any input would be great..........
basketcase0302
Well-known member
Landon,
I had the Water Walker,(Powershift) 2B Sirius series on my boat when we got it last year. Didn't have any problems with it for the 10-20 hours run time before changing to a 3B Sirius series, (no problems there either). Then went to C.R. with Sensenich. Hope this helps.
Basketcase/Jeff
I had the Water Walker,(Powershift) 2B Sirius series on my boat when we got it last year. Didn't have any problems with it for the 10-20 hours run time before changing to a 3B Sirius series, (no problems there either). Then went to C.R. with Sensenich. Hope this helps.
Basketcase/Jeff
marshmaster pat
Well-known member
BE VERY CAREFUL OF WHAT WE POST> IM people if you want specific answers.
We don't need rick getting sued as well for things posted here.
Skeeter - That is one scarey thing to have happen to a airboat. Been there and shudder to think about it happening again. Seen the results on too many occasions with wooden props.
That is alot of blade on those Maximus and Sirius props. I cannot imagine the centripical forces they generate. I know that I have had and seen power shift props take abuse that would have trashed any normal wooden prop. At the speeds the prop was turning in most cases, the entire back of the boat would have been destroyed. All of them are still running. But those were PS Plus, PS plus stubbies, and signature blades. Those maximus and sirius is alot of mass. Will be interesting to see what lawyers and engineers come to a conclusion on.
Skeeter - Hope the fellow and all aboard were all right.
We don't need rick getting sued as well for things posted here.
Skeeter - That is one scarey thing to have happen to a airboat. Been there and shudder to think about it happening again. Seen the results on too many occasions with wooden props.
That is alot of blade on those Maximus and Sirius props. I cannot imagine the centripical forces they generate. I know that I have had and seen power shift props take abuse that would have trashed any normal wooden prop. At the speeds the prop was turning in most cases, the entire back of the boat would have been destroyed. All of them are still running. But those were PS Plus, PS plus stubbies, and signature blades. Those maximus and sirius is alot of mass. Will be interesting to see what lawyers and engineers come to a conclusion on.
Skeeter - Hope the fellow and all aboard were all right.
ShadowGrass Shooter
Well-known member
Man am I glad I looked into this when I did (thanks for the heads up Faron) Any company who backs out of basic warranty issues will see an abandonment of their product in the marketplace over time.
Without making specific accusations, I would suggest that anyone thinking of spending thousands of dollars on a composite prop go and talk to several of the manufacturers who are installing hundreds of props a year. The liabilities are simply to great for them to make a mistake on prop manufacturers.
Good Luck.
Without making specific accusations, I would suggest that anyone thinking of spending thousands of dollars on a composite prop go and talk to several of the manufacturers who are installing hundreds of props a year. The liabilities are simply to great for them to make a mistake on prop manufacturers.
Good Luck.
Folks, just a thought. It is really hard to determine the cause of failure when a prop fails. The mode of failure is often destroyed by the failure it self. Airboat engines are becoming so powerful that the load on ever component is so intense. Law suits are not always about right or wrong or the correct design. Often they are about not wanting to be responsible. When we want hi-powered boats we have a large part of the responsiblity. just as if it was a race car. Please don't be too quick to judge.
i dont think the people at power shift have any problem talking to owner of their props nor do i think they have a problem with any warranty issues with any of their props, i have had nothing but great customer service from these people, not to mention my ps sirius has about 260 hours on it with no problem
froggigger1
Well-known member
can anyone tell me if they have had any harmonic problems with any of the composite props on aircraft engines a friend of mine thinks they may be responsible for breaking some cranks on some motors he has built or worked on. he has gone back to putting counterweights back on the cranks hoping it will do some good with the harmonic problems.
Daddy Dave
Well-known member
This looks to be a thread with a short life span. Here we go with the unfounded attacks all over again. I sure hope SA does not go the route of "I heard, he said, he said, I heard."
My personal experience with PowerShift / Water Walker has been exceptional. My first Powershift lasted through a metal works collapse and still powered a full boat from the very back corner of Gardner's back to Camp Mack with no additional material being thrown off. Try that with something wooden.
Many among our ranks love to do snap turns - burrying the bow in a full powered reversal. This is simply showboating. think of the dynamics at work. SA is full of folks setting the mark higher every month - this motor at 500 plus hp, this hull lighter and lighter, this new maneuver and that one, let's not forget the folks who insist on turning their blades 25% faster than factory specs. (To heck with 2,750, I turn mine 3,300 to get on top of my cam....)
We all need to think this one through very carefully.
PS / WW has been the innovator in synthetic tunable propellers for our chosen vessels. Is it possible for anyone to "Redneck" proof such a component? Nope. We'll find a way to add more torque and apply it in ways that were never intended - with predictable results.
Used to be even a 1/2" nut through the cage meant a new wooden stick. Look closely these days and there is ample evidence that many synthetic props have suffered inpacts of one sort or another and are still in place, still being turned often far above reasonable ranges.
From my personal experience, this company makes very reliable products that stand up to much use and abuse. They also support airboating in more regulatory meetings and governmental hearings than all other synthetic propeller manufacturers combined. There are several great synthetic prop manufacturers - of which PS / WW is definately one.
My personal experience with PowerShift / Water Walker has been exceptional. My first Powershift lasted through a metal works collapse and still powered a full boat from the very back corner of Gardner's back to Camp Mack with no additional material being thrown off. Try that with something wooden.
Many among our ranks love to do snap turns - burrying the bow in a full powered reversal. This is simply showboating. think of the dynamics at work. SA is full of folks setting the mark higher every month - this motor at 500 plus hp, this hull lighter and lighter, this new maneuver and that one, let's not forget the folks who insist on turning their blades 25% faster than factory specs. (To heck with 2,750, I turn mine 3,300 to get on top of my cam....)
We all need to think this one through very carefully.
PS / WW has been the innovator in synthetic tunable propellers for our chosen vessels. Is it possible for anyone to "Redneck" proof such a component? Nope. We'll find a way to add more torque and apply it in ways that were never intended - with predictable results.
Used to be even a 1/2" nut through the cage meant a new wooden stick. Look closely these days and there is ample evidence that many synthetic props have suffered inpacts of one sort or another and are still in place, still being turned often far above reasonable ranges.
From my personal experience, this company makes very reliable products that stand up to much use and abuse. They also support airboating in more regulatory meetings and governmental hearings than all other synthetic propeller manufacturers combined. There are several great synthetic prop manufacturers - of which PS / WW is definately one.
Rich Andrews
Well-known member
IMO.....if there are problems with ANY of the props out there, one should be made aware of it. I don't care who thinks what about who...but if I am swinging a prop that MAY have an inherent problem, I want to know about it. It's a safety issue to me not a LAWSUIT.
Froggiger from what I understand all engines produce bad harmonics some were in there rpm range. DD are the worst ,gear drives are next ,belt drives are least to pass on the harmonics to the prop. metal props can't stand to many harmonics, composites are better and wood props can handle the most . My 2cents.
A
Anonymous
Guest
Big Daddy ..... Thank you. Very well said.
Stan ..... right again. Those ol' paddles don't push like some of the newer stuff, but wood is also very forgiving when you treat it like it's supposed to be.
BF
Stan ..... right again. Those ol' paddles don't push like some of the newer stuff, but wood is also very forgiving when you treat it like it's supposed to be.
BF
Waterthunder
Well-known member
The new soft drive geardrives really work I have converted three or so and it’s amazing how much the rigging quits shaking.
Well here is the kiss of death for sure LOL my response.
Actually BD hit it about right it usually is not anything like it started out to be. I know many who turn props faster than they are meant to run. There typically is a little leeway on that but no one ever checks with thye manufacturer before pushing the envelope. These things are not bullet proof they have limitations.
HARMONICS will kill anything if it all gets right at the right time.
doing donuts is very hard on a prop it causes some insane load shifts on the props. It is a manuver we may have to do so it is good to do it for practice but keep in mind you are straining everything to the limits.
many people sue some for valid reasons many for just greed. It is one reason more things are not available to us .. the product liability insurance rates are insane.
Just give this time to be sorted out and see what the truth is and then make a decision.
Actually BD hit it about right it usually is not anything like it started out to be. I know many who turn props faster than they are meant to run. There typically is a little leeway on that but no one ever checks with thye manufacturer before pushing the envelope. These things are not bullet proof they have limitations.
HARMONICS will kill anything if it all gets right at the right time.
doing donuts is very hard on a prop it causes some insane load shifts on the props. It is a manuver we may have to do so it is good to do it for practice but keep in mind you are straining everything to the limits.
many people sue some for valid reasons many for just greed. It is one reason more things are not available to us .. the product liability insurance rates are insane.
Just give this time to be sorted out and see what the truth is and then make a decision.
Waterthunder
Well-known member
Some good PC work County. Country141 is also known as the (Thread Killer).
Rich Andrews
Well-known member
skeeter, what kind of set up are you running? Sorry to hear about the misfortune. Glad nobody was hurt.
marshmaster pat
Well-known member
Skeeter - Good to hear that all were well. Didn't mean to make my post imply that I have had a composite prop go, just wooden ones and that was enough.
I have seen Power shift Plus blades eat the top of small 16 qt. ice chests. Amazing what plastic can break when it hits wire as several hundred MPH.
Saw one PSPlus where the rudder rod broke at the base, when the throttle let off the rudder swung forward. Snap Crackle Pop when things on that boat. One of two blades were good, even though both hit things.
I let a roll of survey tape (flagging) roll back into the danger zone. It was caught by the blade, pulled the tape roll into the prop and sent it intact against the cage. Cut the roll of tape completely in two against the cage wire and made a instant ticker tape cloud. That was a mess picking up.
Have seen several bolt impressions on composites SS edge, two were good enough to tell the thread size and one had hex head impressions as well. I know I cracked a wooden prop that way, but the composites are fine.
Have a photo of a sensenich that ate a craftsman screwdriver. Hole in the prop and oil cooler. That prop drove the boat back home on plane at 2100.
I had a SS ring clamp off a KC light set come off one night. Turning 2700+ and that ring went through the blade about 3-4 inches from end. Blade was reburbished and still turning.
With the stupid abuse I had allowed to happen at times, I know others are out there doing it as well. Also like people say, over reving props, standing on the nose 180s, loose prop bolts, and so many other issues can make problems that are not easily seen.
Think about those bigger blades, they are wide and heavy and according to the maker designed for low end torque and slow turning. However, if I am used to snap from a motor and install these on a 500+ CI motor that creates 500+ HP, and try to make it snap, it is the laws of physics fighting me. If someone beefs up the motor more to try to make a mega blade perform with snap like their old whirlwind did on their little boat, who is to blame. If we regularly turn them faster than they are made to do, we should expect them to fail. Not if, but when they will fail. Sort of like drag racing all the time with your Ford Powerstroke or Dodge Cummins. Not if, but when they will fail.
Just trying to make people think.
We don't see Firestone street tires on the nitrous funny cars for a reason, they are not made to handle it.
You don't do 2+ G maneuvers in a Cessna without expecting the wings to fold back.
You don't drive the wife's mini van at 120 all day without expecting a rollover or motor to pop.
I know I am guilty of making or acting like an airboat is made to go anywhere I point it. It typically will, but it will not last forever that way either.
Cntry - Good post, I am not the biggest fan of PS/WW, but they have done more for the airboating community than anyone else for a long time. Think about what it was like with the old wooden blades, I sure don't want to go back.
I have seen Power shift Plus blades eat the top of small 16 qt. ice chests. Amazing what plastic can break when it hits wire as several hundred MPH.
Saw one PSPlus where the rudder rod broke at the base, when the throttle let off the rudder swung forward. Snap Crackle Pop when things on that boat. One of two blades were good, even though both hit things.
I let a roll of survey tape (flagging) roll back into the danger zone. It was caught by the blade, pulled the tape roll into the prop and sent it intact against the cage. Cut the roll of tape completely in two against the cage wire and made a instant ticker tape cloud. That was a mess picking up.
Have seen several bolt impressions on composites SS edge, two were good enough to tell the thread size and one had hex head impressions as well. I know I cracked a wooden prop that way, but the composites are fine.
Have a photo of a sensenich that ate a craftsman screwdriver. Hole in the prop and oil cooler. That prop drove the boat back home on plane at 2100.
I had a SS ring clamp off a KC light set come off one night. Turning 2700+ and that ring went through the blade about 3-4 inches from end. Blade was reburbished and still turning.
With the stupid abuse I had allowed to happen at times, I know others are out there doing it as well. Also like people say, over reving props, standing on the nose 180s, loose prop bolts, and so many other issues can make problems that are not easily seen.
Think about those bigger blades, they are wide and heavy and according to the maker designed for low end torque and slow turning. However, if I am used to snap from a motor and install these on a 500+ CI motor that creates 500+ HP, and try to make it snap, it is the laws of physics fighting me. If someone beefs up the motor more to try to make a mega blade perform with snap like their old whirlwind did on their little boat, who is to blame. If we regularly turn them faster than they are made to do, we should expect them to fail. Not if, but when they will fail. Sort of like drag racing all the time with your Ford Powerstroke or Dodge Cummins. Not if, but when they will fail.
Just trying to make people think.
We don't see Firestone street tires on the nitrous funny cars for a reason, they are not made to handle it.
You don't do 2+ G maneuvers in a Cessna without expecting the wings to fold back.
You don't drive the wife's mini van at 120 all day without expecting a rollover or motor to pop.
I know I am guilty of making or acting like an airboat is made to go anywhere I point it. It typically will, but it will not last forever that way either.
Cntry - Good post, I am not the biggest fan of PS/WW, but they have done more for the airboating community than anyone else for a long time. Think about what it was like with the old wooden blades, I sure don't want to go back.