• If you log in, the ads disappear in the forum and gallery. If you need help logging in or getting registered, send request to: webmaster@southernairboat.com

SPRAG CLUTCHES

cntry141iq

Silent Prop
R. I. P.
I was lookin around today and ran across this article. I am sure these guys have no clue what they are talking about ... but what if they did hmmm makes you wonder huh...

sprag clutch article:
One of the most dangerous designs we have seen is a PSRU that contains a sprag-clutch with a magic-sounding name ("LCD", or "Linear Coupling Device"). Surreal properties are claimed for this magic device, specifically, that "...it isolates all the engine shock and torsional excitation from the gearbox". That’s a curious claim in view of the fact that the clutch is downstream of the input gear in the examples we have seen (located in the output shaft in one case, and in the idler shaft in another).

It’s even more curious that the purveyor of this PSRU alleges that "...the magic device can couple and decouple as fast as 75 times per second, which breaks the resonance feedback loop". However, the manufacturer of this "device", which is no more than a commercial sprag clutch, states in their engineering data that the maximum rate ever achieved with this clutch is 20 Hz.

We have already shown through some fundamentally simple calculations (Vibration Basics) that the destructive loads are applied at frequencies ranging from 240 Hz to 320 Hz. (three to four times faster than the max CLAIMED rate of the wondrous "device", and more than 10 times its ACTUAL rate).

IF a one-way clutch which actually HAD a maximum rate of 75 Hz were driven by an 8-cylinder engine, it would become a solid coupling above 1125 RPM, barely above idle. So it is clear that, even if this "device" COULD couple and uncouple at 75 HZ, it would be completely inert at the frequencies which excite the destructive vibrations.

The design of this particular PSRU caused the first mode resonant frequency of the propulsion system I examined (a V8 engine, this PSRU, and a composite propeller) to be about 3700 RPM (right at the bottom of the cruise range). At max takeoff RPM (4700) the system was not even close to crossover RPM (5230). Imagine the forces at work to destroy that system.

There are other severe problems with this sprag-clutch approach, however. The PSRU vendor claims that the clutch decouples the propeller from feeding back vibratory energy into the system. It purportedly does this by disengaging the engine from the PSRU during the part of the torque cycle in which the instantaneous engine torque is low (a torque "valley"). So far, so good.

But when the next cylinder of the engine fires, the PSRU input shaft accelerates freely (it is not driving any load because the magic-clutch has decoupled). When the shaft speeds match, the output shaft is still at a relatively constant speed while the input shaft is accelerating rapidly. Suddenly, BANG, the clutch re-engages, imposing an extremely high shock load on the gearbox and propeller because the re-engagement of the clutch picks up the entire engine output over a period of a few microseconds. These high shock loads will fracture the clutch outer race in a relatively short time.

Further, even if the clutch did reduce the gain of the resonance feedback loop, it does nothing to isolate the gears or the propeller from the torsional excitation (engine peaks times transmissibility) the engine produces.

Worse yet is the fact that with a one-way clutch in the PSRU, when the pilot reduces the engine power in flight (for a quick descent from altitude, for example) the propeller becomes freewheeling. Thus, if the airspeed remains high during the descent, the propeller can easily overspeed and shed a blade. Compounding the problem, the pilot is unlikely to detect the overspeed until a disaster happens, because both the sound of the engine and the reading of the tachometer confirm to him that RPM is decreasing.

The vendor of the PSRU-with-sprag-clutch adamantly denied that the propeller will freewheel when power is reduced. Then, to validate his design, he produced an engineering analysis of his PSRU by a university professor. That study states unequivocally that the propeller will freewheel when power is reduced. When questioned about that discrepancy, the vendor responded: "The professor does not know what he’s talking about". Amazing?

A client of ours proved in flight tests that the propeller on this PSRU does freewheel when power is reduced, exactly as stated here. He also found, to his chagrin, that when it freewheels in the landing flare, it removes the expected propeller drag and greatly extends the rollout.

Note that helicopter gearboxes use a sprag (one-way) clutch between the engine and the rotor drive gearbox. The purpose of that clutch is to automatically disconnect the rotor system from the engine in case of an engine failure. That allows the rotor system to be propelled by the sinking of the helicopter through the air, thereby allowing the pilot to maintain control of the aircraft during the descent and to use the energy stored in the rotor system to decelerate the aircraft to a successful landing. It’s called "autorotation".

We have used a pair of sprag clutches in the input coupling to our double-engine gearbox (the Mark-14) for the purpose of automatically disconnecting a failed engine from the prop and allowing the remaining good engine to continue to power the prop.

continued ...

(1) Perhaps the most important point to be made by this presentation is that PSRU’s, propellers, and engine mounts are complex devices. PSRU’s for conversions are the incarnation of EXPERIMENTAL. There is no significant body of accumulated experience behind most of them. Treat them as such.

(2) TEST STAND OPERATION IS NOT THE SAME AS FLIGHT.

(3) Do not be misled by the false belief that "if you cannot FEEL vibration, then none exists". Destructive vibration can occur at frequencies far beyond the range humans can detect.

(4) The life expectancy of your PSRU and propeller (and by extension, you, your passengers and your aircraft) depends on a complex mixture of factors including the dimensions, stiffnesses, materials, heat-treatments, and quality control of critical components, the metallurgical goodness of the gear material (AGMA GRADE), the accuracy (AGMA QUALITY) of the gears, the reduction ratio, the Jm of the propeller, the talent of the designer(s), and other factors.

(5) Be SUSPICIOUS of (a) any PSRU that allows the use of a light flywheel, (b) of any PSRU that has a torsionally-rigid coupling between the engine crankshaft and the PRSU drive gear, or (c) of any PSRU that which can be bought without a drive coupling system engineered for THAT PSRU and YOUR engine.

(6) RUN (don’t walk) away from anything with a one-way clutch in the propeller drive system, or with magical (unexplainable) properties. Be careful and be cynical.

(7) Before buying a PSRU, have the seller satisfy you (with data, not allegations) that the SYSTEM will operate correctly with your selection of engine, propeller, and gear ratio. Don’t be satisfied with marketing drivel.

(8) Remember that, unlike the experimental world, TBO numbers in the real world are established on the basis of substantial experience and documented evidence, both practical and scientific. Far too many TBO's in experimental aviation are no more than the product of some peddler's wishful thinking.

(9) Ask to talk to the designer. Don’t be afraid to ask him the relevant questions (see FAQ's). Maybe the designer knows about gears but didn’t do the vibration analysis. Maybe the designer has no engineering knowledge at all, but has money enough to buy CAD software and CNC machining equipment, and can talk faster than you. Maybe the "...thousand hours this PSRU has in service" came from 10 hours each on 100 airboats. Ask about previous litigations involving their products. Speak to actual customers.

(10) Don’t accept one of the countless variations on the theme:

THIS PRODUCT WAS DESIGNED BY THE (best, most experienced, most aviation-knowledgeable) EXPERT IN (the world, the USA, Germany, Uganda) BUT HE (is too busy, is undercover for the CIA, has been abducted by aliens, only speaks Swahili) AND CAN’T TALK TO YOU.

(11) Be cautious of most race-car experts. There are a FEW brilliant race-engine guys out there, but their perspective is often quite different than yours. Remember, long life for a typical ski-boat engine is 100 hours. Long life for a Nextel (Winston) Cup or Busch engine is 3 hours. (Some race-car guys think long life is 15 seconds, measured in 5-second chunks.)

REMEMBER: Many Lycomings and Continentals live thousands of hours at 75% power without a failure. In fact, much of the grief with "LycoNentals" comes from disuse.

(12) While it is well recognized that the Federal Aviation Regulations defining design and testing standards (PARTS 23, 33 & 35) do not apply to experimental aircraft, nevertheless those regulations provide a rich source of MINIMUM DESIGN STANDARDS which a prudent aircraft designer would be well advised to study, especially with regard to structural and reliability issues.

So I wonder ... I always thought I wanted one of those things but maybe not now. cause for a pause??
 
Cntry, good post.

The Helo's I flew (and I'm guessing that this piece hasn't changed) all had sprag clutches on the short shaft between the T-53 (Huey) or T-57 (Chinook) gas turbine engine and the main transmission so that if the engine ever stuck or stopped running, the rotor head would still be free to turn.

That was essential so that you could put the ship in autorotation ..... you'd slam the collective to the bottom and literally fall from the sky, but use the air that was rushing upward to keep the rotorhead turning, give you time to pick a spot to land, and then as you approached a landing spot you'd start pulling pitch back into the rotors using the stored energy you had in the blades. Done right, you could sit one down as pretty as you please, and those sprag clutches were good for well over 2500 hp.

This article doesn't add up for me.

olf
 
Are there many of those sprag , or one way clutches in the world of airboating? The over speeding prop issiew seems possible but not likely
on an air plane, but not likely at all on an air boat.
On a plane an over speeding prop could only happen in a
dive where gravity would supply the forward speed to drive
the prop. It seems the engine would slow down much quicker
due to the lack of inertia. But the speed of the prop would
decrease as soon as there was no more driving force. The decreasing
forward motion of a boat would not drive the prop, however
it seems that it might reduce the wind drag that would normaly
stop the rotation, otherwise we might be talking about that
perpetuial motion machine we've all been looking for.
Just some stray thoughts in my idibiti can't spell mind.
 
Hey cntry. remember that little yellow mazda rotary powered airboat from b.s. hill it has a prag clutch and has been running for over 7 years with not one problem.
 
I think that rotary was origanly Normans he built them chain drives with the sprags many years ago. Funny I haven't heard of any breaking or having any problems. I know one has a BBC with a four blade for about 6 years now no problems yet. I guess I had better tell him it's gona break and he better get rid of it.
 
It shouldn't be that tough to add a sprag to the gearboxes that are out there now. It would probably require a little larger casting around the output end, but the gear centers wouldn't change at all.

It sure would make low speed handling easier for you guys running the big inch / big pitch props. Set up right you could idle up to a dock or ramp and just blip the throttle a little if you needed more push.

olf
 
Remember that clutch box I was running a few years ago. That thing was more fun then anything else I ever drove well if these props get any bigger were gona need them. That old clutch box is sitting on a shelf it may just get dusted off soon. Man I had a blast holding the gas at 5,000RPM and dropping the clutch and away you go.
 
With the props you're running today (Superwides) I don't think I'd try that now. Either the prop hub or the big end of a blade would likely let go. Too much torque accelerating huge bite from those blades.

olf
 
I remember when I was running the clutch box the Rotator really impressed me. I even ran a 4 blade Power Shift and was revving my motor up to 6,000RPM's while the PS prop sat still the I would just dump the clutch. I never broke anything and to top it all off I would squirt it with 250HP of nitrous. If anything should have broke my gearbox that was it. After that when I tore it apart and saw no damage at all. I switched to Rotators plus the fact their $500 to $600 cheaper. Man that was some fun a 600HP plus motor held around 6,000RPM with a four blade 80" Power Shift I would just dump the clutch and grab the N2O and away you go. That combo was so much fun to drive plus I could sit still near a ramp or dock. That clutch box is sitting on a shelf maybe it's time to dust it off.
 
Still can't see a sprag being a good idea on a ride boat.

When you let off the gas, don't you want the prop speed to drop to help you slow down?

I guess you could add a brake....
 
Red, with a sprag clutch the prop probably wouldn't ever really stop turning when the engine was running, but it would turn very slowly on residual friction and you could probably hold it at idle.

It's never disconnected from the power like a conventional clutch, but it comes alive when you increase the torque applied to it. As long as you're in the throttle it stays locked up.

They're pretty cool. If Rotator ever builds a sprag gearbox I'll buy one.

olf
 
What you're referring to would accurately be called a centrifugal clutch. They are found on chainsaws, go-karts and 4 wheelers.

A sprag is a one-way roller clutch, also known as an overrunning clutch. It can freewheel in one direction, but locks up in the other direction. They are used in high-quality ratchets (socket wrench) and are also the reason your car with an automatic transmission won't roll backward down a hill when it is in gear.

So which one are these gear boxes actually using?
 
No sir, with all due respect, I know what a centirfugal clutch is. A sprag clutch isn't dependent on rpm ...... only applied torgue, to operate.

Apply power, it locks. Remove power, it releases. RPM has nothing to do with it's operation.

olf
 
Perhaps I mis-read your post the first time, but I was confused by this:

Red, with a sprag clutch the prop probably wouldn't ever really stop turning when the engine was running, but it would turn very slowly on residual friction and you could probably hold it at idle.

To me it sounded like you meant a centrifugal clutch, because, as you said

A sprag clutch isn't dependent on rpm ...... only applied torgue, to operate.

I should have known that you knew the difference, apologies
 
No problem ....... these keyboards create a lot of misunderstanding.
If we'd been talking about this both of us would have been on the same page.

Sprags normally run in an oil bath, so the residual I was referring to is mostly a product of turbulance in the lubricant. That's why I said the prop would probably turn slowly at idle, but that you could most likely also hold it and keep it from turning if the engine was at idle.

olf
 
Olf art the sprag clutch on my freinds rotary engine is lubricated but does not run in an oil bath if you tried to hold it it would kill the engine or remove appendages i know this because we tir the prop during transport to keep it from free wheeling while not being pressure fed lubricant. at idle the prop is turning engine rpm divided by gear ratio which is 3.17 to 1 or around 375 rpm from an 1100 engine rpm. the main advantage of the sprag clutch is it eliminates the back-lash from the prop transfered through the gear box mostly between power pulses at idle when running at cruise or above you would never know the clutch is there. Thunder its not one of normans set-ups this one is made from the upper rotor reduction housing from a bell p-47 helicopter
 
Scooter, that sounds like a pretty cool set up ..... if I read your post right what it does is just take the snatch out of a gearbox. Smooth it out.

That would be a big improvement all by itself because it would save a lot of wear and tear on the engine too.

olf
 
Youre correct olf it eliminates back lash and alot of chatter found in gear boxes they use them alot in experimental aircraft psru's so they can use inexpensive planetary gear mostly sourced from ford c-6 automatic trans the problem with usung planetary gears is they were designed to only transmitt power in one direction (the tourqe converter prevents backlash in automatics) so they need a sprag clutch to keep them from destroying the gears when the prop kicks backs between power pulses
 
Is anyone using anything like this? It would be nice to take some of the abuse of the drive train, but it would be a great benefit if the prop would slow or stop at idle. I operate mostly in creeks and sometimes it is a real aggravation when you cant stop without killing the engine. I want to convert to a gearbox and that would compound the problem greatly.
 
Back
Top