Hey guys, I am in the market for a new prop, I had the Sirius prop, it cracked on me and now I have a 4 blade Falcon on a 2.3 to 1 belt drive with a 454, my question is which prop do you think I should go with. I loved the Sirius but I am not going back, and I do not like the falcon thats on there now. I talked with whirlwind and sensenich both but just can't make my mind up. Any help at all would be greatly appreciated.
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WhirlWind or Sensenich
- Thread starter JSlick
- Start date
froggigger1
Well-known member
wE STARTED RUNNING THE SEINSICH Q SERIES ON OUR AIR CRAFT MOTORS AND THEY ARE QUIET AND PUSH GOOD BUT I DONT KNOW IF YOU CAN GET ONE FOR YOUR APPLICATION. GOOD LUCK
SwampMatt
Well-known member
New Years eve at the Milk Bus, Jdotson bumped into one of them oak trees and his SENSENICH prop did a good job of chewing up the limb and part of the cage. I'll never forget the sound it made - it was not a good thing.
A little bending of the cage, and cutting about 5 or 6 inches off the tips of each blade with a CHAINSAW and he says it performed fine. It got him home.... and maybe then some.
Made a believer out of me! I've got a wood prop, but when I upgrade, I'm going with Sensenich.
And I really like the sound (or lack of it) in their curved leading edge blades.
matt.
A little bending of the cage, and cutting about 5 or 6 inches off the tips of each blade with a CHAINSAW and he says it performed fine. It got him home.... and maybe then some.
Made a believer out of me! I've got a wood prop, but when I upgrade, I'm going with Sensenich.
And I really like the sound (or lack of it) in their curved leading edge blades.
matt.
Waterthunder
Well-known member
To me it's not even a comparison. The Sensinech with out a doubt is the best built, best performing prop out there they also stand behind their stuff better than anybody else. And if you want quite they are the only people incorporating sound into their designs. I have ran all of them ON A BOAT and the Whirl Wind did not perform near as well.
I was wondering about the Whirlwind compared to the Sensenich as well. It's nice to see Sensenich finally updated thier website. http://www.sensenichprop.com/sen_html/a ... -faq-5.pdf
It wasn't that easy to find information on thier composites before, Whirlwind definatly had better advertising. It would still be nice to be able to find suggested retail price on them. I'll trust your opinion Waterthunder! 8)
It wasn't that easy to find information on thier composites before, Whirlwind definatly had better advertising. It would still be nice to be able to find suggested retail price on them. I'll trust your opinion Waterthunder! 8)
cntry and I tested both props (sensinich and whrilwind )and they equaled in performance wasn't a nickels differance between them on a 2.09 or a 2.68 gear box .
Now if you were to go to a 2.68 box or a 3.12 like cntry then I would go with the super wide blade sensenich for lower sound signiture but there again do you want thrust or lower sound.might want to check with cntry he may have a super wide 3 blade 80" sensinich for sell with a 2.68 gear box.
It's the total combination of motor rpm and torque ,gear reduction and propeller what needs to be considered.cntry's boat preformed just as well with a four blade master blaster and a 2.09 gear as it did with a 3 blade super wide sensinich and a 3.12 gear.
Now if you were to go to a 2.68 box or a 3.12 like cntry then I would go with the super wide blade sensenich for lower sound signiture but there again do you want thrust or lower sound.might want to check with cntry he may have a super wide 3 blade 80" sensinich for sell with a 2.68 gear box.
It's the total combination of motor rpm and torque ,gear reduction and propeller what needs to be considered.cntry's boat preformed just as well with a four blade master blaster and a 2.09 gear as it did with a 3 blade super wide sensinich and a 3.12 gear.
I'm looking for low end push, of course sound is an issue, this 4 blade I have now is a whole lot louder than the 3 blade Sirius and it doesn't push no where near like the Sirius, that's what I'm trying to get back to. Not in a position to change to a gear box right now, just trying to find a replacement prop so to speak. Really not concerned about top end, I use the boat for bowfishing and we load the boat down with fish and need that low end push more so than top end. How do the props compare in price? Thanks for all the help so far
Waterthunder
Well-known member
I'm running the ultra wide Q series. I don't want to go to far into this but thrust testing with a stationary boat will cause the Whirl Wind to developed the highest thrust numbers look closely at the blade design and you can see why. I was amazed when Felber just looked at one and told what would happen on a stationary thrust test and then how it would run in a boat, He knew it I had to test it to find out. However when the props are moving thru the air say at 30MPH everything is different. I can do thrust tests with five different props and three different gearbox ratios and the numbers are so close there really isn't a difference. However when I test the same combinations on a boat running dry, cruising, racing and riding they all are completely different. Please never buy a prop on stationary thrust numbers if you do your not buying the best performing prop.
Waterthunder":3lzle5o6 said:
I think I can understand and agree with that. I would think that in a static situation you would end up with turbulent airflow over the propeller blade. Like the wing of an airplane in a stall. With forward motion you would have smoother or "laminar" airflow over the propeller blades airfoil. 8)
I had a 68 inch Super Snapper Whirlwind on my 0360. I had to send it back for a 70 inch. Seems like the ol Florida wooden prop beat em both. I now have a 3 blade Sensenich on an LS1. Its great, and their manufacturing facility is about 5 minutes from my house. So whenever I need more prop, I just stop by. If yall are ever in Plant City go by there and take the tour. The place is always moving, and innovating. I asked them about an upgrade to a wide blade (Q series??) and they told me to contact my boat manufacturer. I had one dealing with each company and both had great service.
Stan and I have done a lot of static testing. It may not be the best method for getting "true thrust/performance" numbers but it is better than what most folks get from the seat of their pants.
Most folks do not set and run and reset and rerun trying to get a prop adjusted properly. Most folks have no idea how much power they make or at what rpm range they make it in. They buy a motor and someone say's yep that baby makes 650 hp and 1000 lbs of torque, me and bubba added up the numbers on the parts box ads ourselves yup we did. I am amazed at the numbers from the aircraft guys, everyones engine makes the same, there are very few dyno's around for an a/c engine that i am aware of and most folks won't even dyno a car motor they put on their boat. They will spend a darn fortune buying different ratioo boxes and belts and props and bad mouth other props when they get lucky and accidentally get one of them set where it needed to be set at.
THUNDER does set run reset rerun until he gets what he wants. I won't go into how he knows what it is doing becuase he and I have talked alot about it and we both have sworn secrecy about specific results and methods.Ya'll gotta remember though he is looking for 400' runs and look at his boat and see if it looks like yours .... NOT.
Static testing the way STAN and I did it does yeild some valid information. It does not give you the "TRUE THRUST/POWER" that a given prop is capable of producing. It does give you a comparison of different props on your particular boat at a particular time. Now when STAN and I did our tests we hooked up the thrust meter, sound meter, tachometer and engine analyzer to a computer which recorded the data. We were able to look at the elapsed time for thrust/power increases, able to look at how long the changes took to occur and the load on the engine doing it.
Static testing if done properly is perfectly safe, HOWEVER you need to be sure your trailer can handle it if you do it on the trailer. We supported the trailer to keep the thrust linear. Some folks are sacred to run at wide open throttle on a trailer well I would rather have it fail in the yard than miles from help when you are stuck in the mud at wide open throttle and the boat is not moving and you have people on the boat with you.
I have been stuck and held wide open throttle for 10 to 15 minutes and only move 10' but I got out of it. I have run dry for miles and miles if you go to kissimmee and run with those boys over there you better be able to also. So wide open on a trailer in the yard is a cake walk compared to the real world for me anyways.
I would love to be able to have access to a wind tunnel for real testing however on mine and STANS budget it aint gonna happen. Airflow is tricky stuff and guessing what it will do is not very reliable. We started testin in the winter time when it was calm winds, clear skies, cool temps. We quit when the wind started blowing off and on because the loads on the prop would change and the results were unreliable. We will test more when the weather gets condusive to it again.
When it comes to sound the clear leader at this time is the sensenitch super wide, however we didnt test any powershift or water walker props because I nor STAN didn't own any of them and nobody offered us one to try. We tested whirlwinds and warpdrives with the sensenitch. We were able to get almost the same thrust from any prop we tested i would say there was not over 10% difference between them. BUT they all had to be set properly to achieve this result. The big variable was sound, but when the quiet one was spun at the same speed as the others it was just as loud as them and no real gain in power. The others would not make power as slow as the sensenitch did. We are planning more tests in the future so no real data is being released.
The effect of airflow is very important. I moved my radiator 5" from where it was and picked up 200 rpms. Aerodynamics will yeild significant improvments in performance.
I was able to hit 95% thrust in less than one second on every prop tested. I don't know how to spell "SNAP" but that seems pretty snappy to me. If I held it wide open the level would climb up a little more. I am not sure how to test while moving across the ground or water because each run will change the media in which you are operating. The wind will change your results big time. A slight movement of the rudder stick changing the attitude of the boat will yeild noticable results in performance on a run. At least on the trailer nothing changes from one to the other. I don't know for sure but I beleive most folks "seat of the pants" can't measure in sub second increments. Most people will react more to the sound a rig makes as a judgment of power, myself included until I saw what the computer said. Maybe we could build a test track out of polymer inside an airconditioned building large enough to not affect the air flow on the prop and keep the temp and humidity constant and let a machine drive the throttle so it was applied the same each time but that seems expensive to me. So for the time being I will stick to static trailer tests for the initial setup and fine tune it after I run it and yes I usually have a torque wrench in my boat and a protractor, at least in my truck for sure. Is it perfect nope but it beats guessing.
I believe the prop manufacturers are looking for ways to quiet down the props and still yeild acceptable levels of power. I know I have talked to some personally who are. The technology of props is not new, even sensenitch's stuff is not new it is different from the others right now but it is old technology and the others are payin attention and changes are coming. I beleive we will have some new choices soon. In this day of computer design and testing changes come faster than they used to. the biggie though is things cost more these days and most folks don't want to pay for the technology. Look at the fuss over mufflers even though it has been proven even on a/c engines that if properly designed the exhuast system is a source of cheap horespower gains. but that is a different story for another thread by folks smarter than me.
I will say that for thrust/performance I seem to remeber some folks in arkansas who came up with the same 10% difference. Ya'll do the math now if sound is your game HMMM things get more interesting.
by the way on my boat I just sold I was running the super wide at just past the maximum mark on it. I have bought a bigger one for my new boat. Yep my little ole wore out junkyard motor was turnin it right up there with the 502's and 572's go figure huh. I wasn't turning it as fast as they do but I got plenty of power and less noise than they did. EACH BOAT is unique and must be setup properly to perfrom properly one size does not fit all. sorry for the length of this one i was gonna be short but oh well.
Most folks do not set and run and reset and rerun trying to get a prop adjusted properly. Most folks have no idea how much power they make or at what rpm range they make it in. They buy a motor and someone say's yep that baby makes 650 hp and 1000 lbs of torque, me and bubba added up the numbers on the parts box ads ourselves yup we did. I am amazed at the numbers from the aircraft guys, everyones engine makes the same, there are very few dyno's around for an a/c engine that i am aware of and most folks won't even dyno a car motor they put on their boat. They will spend a darn fortune buying different ratioo boxes and belts and props and bad mouth other props when they get lucky and accidentally get one of them set where it needed to be set at.
THUNDER does set run reset rerun until he gets what he wants. I won't go into how he knows what it is doing becuase he and I have talked alot about it and we both have sworn secrecy about specific results and methods.Ya'll gotta remember though he is looking for 400' runs and look at his boat and see if it looks like yours .... NOT.
Static testing the way STAN and I did it does yeild some valid information. It does not give you the "TRUE THRUST/POWER" that a given prop is capable of producing. It does give you a comparison of different props on your particular boat at a particular time. Now when STAN and I did our tests we hooked up the thrust meter, sound meter, tachometer and engine analyzer to a computer which recorded the data. We were able to look at the elapsed time for thrust/power increases, able to look at how long the changes took to occur and the load on the engine doing it.
Static testing if done properly is perfectly safe, HOWEVER you need to be sure your trailer can handle it if you do it on the trailer. We supported the trailer to keep the thrust linear. Some folks are sacred to run at wide open throttle on a trailer well I would rather have it fail in the yard than miles from help when you are stuck in the mud at wide open throttle and the boat is not moving and you have people on the boat with you.
I have been stuck and held wide open throttle for 10 to 15 minutes and only move 10' but I got out of it. I have run dry for miles and miles if you go to kissimmee and run with those boys over there you better be able to also. So wide open on a trailer in the yard is a cake walk compared to the real world for me anyways.
I would love to be able to have access to a wind tunnel for real testing however on mine and STANS budget it aint gonna happen. Airflow is tricky stuff and guessing what it will do is not very reliable. We started testin in the winter time when it was calm winds, clear skies, cool temps. We quit when the wind started blowing off and on because the loads on the prop would change and the results were unreliable. We will test more when the weather gets condusive to it again.
When it comes to sound the clear leader at this time is the sensenitch super wide, however we didnt test any powershift or water walker props because I nor STAN didn't own any of them and nobody offered us one to try. We tested whirlwinds and warpdrives with the sensenitch. We were able to get almost the same thrust from any prop we tested i would say there was not over 10% difference between them. BUT they all had to be set properly to achieve this result. The big variable was sound, but when the quiet one was spun at the same speed as the others it was just as loud as them and no real gain in power. The others would not make power as slow as the sensenitch did. We are planning more tests in the future so no real data is being released.
The effect of airflow is very important. I moved my radiator 5" from where it was and picked up 200 rpms. Aerodynamics will yeild significant improvments in performance.
I was able to hit 95% thrust in less than one second on every prop tested. I don't know how to spell "SNAP" but that seems pretty snappy to me. If I held it wide open the level would climb up a little more. I am not sure how to test while moving across the ground or water because each run will change the media in which you are operating. The wind will change your results big time. A slight movement of the rudder stick changing the attitude of the boat will yeild noticable results in performance on a run. At least on the trailer nothing changes from one to the other. I don't know for sure but I beleive most folks "seat of the pants" can't measure in sub second increments. Most people will react more to the sound a rig makes as a judgment of power, myself included until I saw what the computer said. Maybe we could build a test track out of polymer inside an airconditioned building large enough to not affect the air flow on the prop and keep the temp and humidity constant and let a machine drive the throttle so it was applied the same each time but that seems expensive to me. So for the time being I will stick to static trailer tests for the initial setup and fine tune it after I run it and yes I usually have a torque wrench in my boat and a protractor, at least in my truck for sure. Is it perfect nope but it beats guessing.
I believe the prop manufacturers are looking for ways to quiet down the props and still yeild acceptable levels of power. I know I have talked to some personally who are. The technology of props is not new, even sensenitch's stuff is not new it is different from the others right now but it is old technology and the others are payin attention and changes are coming. I beleive we will have some new choices soon. In this day of computer design and testing changes come faster than they used to. the biggie though is things cost more these days and most folks don't want to pay for the technology. Look at the fuss over mufflers even though it has been proven even on a/c engines that if properly designed the exhuast system is a source of cheap horespower gains. but that is a different story for another thread by folks smarter than me.
I will say that for thrust/performance I seem to remeber some folks in arkansas who came up with the same 10% difference. Ya'll do the math now if sound is your game HMMM things get more interesting.
by the way on my boat I just sold I was running the super wide at just past the maximum mark on it. I have bought a bigger one for my new boat. Yep my little ole wore out junkyard motor was turnin it right up there with the 502's and 572's go figure huh. I wasn't turning it as fast as they do but I got plenty of power and less noise than they did. EACH BOAT is unique and must be setup properly to perfrom properly one size does not fit all. sorry for the length of this one i was gonna be short but oh well.
Holy crap :shock: Cntry you must be retired or something, that sure is a lot of work there, I don't care who you are 
Usually I just try to talk to folks that have a boat similar to mine that are running a fiber prop. Thanks for the info and thank you for divulging some of your findings!
Usually I just try to talk to folks that have a boat similar to mine that are running a fiber prop. Thanks for the info and thank you for divulging some of your findings!Nope I aint retired but it was a lot of weekends invested in it. But Stan and I wanted to get to the bottom of the BS so we set out to do it.
A
Anonymous
Guest
go with Sensenich! all I can remember is Sensenich props on my dads boat from the wood props to carbon fiber. experience has to count for something.
ShadowGrass Shooter
Well-known member
There was a post on here a while back that stated that if you cut a Sensenich in half and looked inside, and if you did the same with a Whirlwind you would find that the Sensenich had nearly twice as much composite material in the blade. That would be an important consideration to me if I were looking to buy a new prop.
Before I picked up my Diamonback in April, I was thanking Diety that the Powershift problem surfaced (thanks largely to this forum in my view) and I was able to get a full set of Sensenich props on my Counter Rotating 572. I only have 40 hours on 'em but I love the response and thrust coming from the set-up. I have an 80" Q series feeding a faster turning 82" wide blade, both Sensenich.
Before I picked up my Diamonback in April, I was thanking Diety that the Powershift problem surfaced (thanks largely to this forum in my view) and I was able to get a full set of Sensenich props on my Counter Rotating 572. I only have 40 hours on 'em but I love the response and thrust coming from the set-up. I have an 80" Q series feeding a faster turning 82" wide blade, both Sensenich.
froggigger1
Well-known member
I wonder if seinsich makes a hub that will go over the big flange on a o-435 power shift does but I don't know about seinsich I cut the case and put 480 cylinders on it and I am having to run a warp drive I love it but just wanted to try something differt. thanks
basketcase0302
Well-known member
frogigger,
Give em' a call @813-752-3711.
I love my Sensenich :hello1:
Basketcase
Give em' a call @813-752-3711.
I love my Sensenich :hello1:
Basketcase