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Wisconsin Airboat Noise Testing Hearings

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wiairboatcharter

Member
We really need a show of support at the hearing on June 1st at Room 613, GEF #2, 101 south webster street, Madison WI at 10:00am. This will be a very importent hearing as there will be many anti-airboat people in attendance. If anyone needs additional information or needs directions please feel free to contact me at email@wiairboatcharter.com.

Thanks
 
Wisconsin Department of Natural Resources is attempting to change state statutes as related to "boat noise" specifically aimed at the airboat community. We would like Mr Engfer who is spearheading these public hearings to hear arguments as to why this is not an easy enforcment issue. Any and all who have pertinant information on this subject should send comments to william.engfer@dnr.state.wi.us. this would be greatfully appreciated. Les keep our waterways open to all!!

Have a safe and wet Memorial Day weekend!!!
 
It's not airboat noise, it's airboat SOUND! Big difference when you get to the law so start insisting on calling it sound unless it's a complaint.
Get a hold of Ron Miller in Michigan as he is close & very knowledgeable.
If ya'll don't communicate and get organized you will not prevail.
PW
 
That's a good difference between the noise and sound-thanks!

WI airboat- there were hearings on May 25th as well. I didn't find out until that morning about them. I would have hoped that since they were on the MS River that there would have been a good showing of support there for the airboats there at those meetings. The Wisconsin Bowfishing Association (WBA) is hoping to work on this as well. Any assistance that you would like, please let us know, as we too are concerned with this issue.

I am still waiting for Mr. Engfer to contact me back so that he may answer some questions for me. I take it that he is the DNR person in charge of the Hearings? If so, I will have our members email their issues with this proposed change. From what I hear it is being orignated around the Portage area by one or two people. Have you heard anything about that? The way that I read it, they wish to change the method used for testing the dB levels. Is there more to it. ASE J1970 only describes the engine noise, so I am really interested in their new "Method". There will be much confusion on their part I believe thrying to do this. Plus, if they are going to try to enforce noise violations, then the WBA is in the position that they had better do it for everyone out there in every walk of life such as the airports, motorcycles, etc, and you know that just won't happen. They need consistency or nothing at all. I'm really getting sick of these do-gooders!

I have worked on issues in the past with the DNR and the Legislature, so feel free to email me at casser@charter.net for any help.
 
Probably will be considerable opposition against airboats even though most of them have absolutely no idea what they are opposing. Lots of retired folks out there seem to feel that it can only be thier way and to heck with anyone else.
Here's a posting I came across on the Wi Rivers Alliance website.

DNR Deaf to Air Boat Noise?
In February we reported that, thanks to the diligence of our friends along the lower Wisconsin River, the Natural Resources Board directed DNR to uphold the law and hold airboats and hovercraft to the same noise limits as all other motorboats. DNR had insisted that airboats were exempt from the 86 decibel noise limit, and claimed they could not safely measure the noise generated by the giant fans that propel the watercraft. The Board set them straight, and directed them to develop a safe measurement method.

Unfortunately, the method they have proposed is ridiculous, and still lets these noisy, disruptive boats off the hook.

Standard motorboat noise is measured 40 inches from the exhaust pipe, but DNR is proposing to measure airboat noise from a minimum of 300 feet away, using the same 86 decibel standard! In order to apply the standard fairly and consistently, either the measurement distance must be significantly reduced, or the acceptable decibel level at 300 feet must account for sound dissipation between 40 inches and 300 feet. In other words, the acceptable noise level at 300 feet must be proportionately lower than 86 decibels to ensure consistent application of the law.

DNR is holding public hearings and will accept comments until June 9.

Tell DNR to get over their insistence that airboats should get special treatment, and to make sure they're held to the same standards as all other motorboats.

Comments can be sent to:

William Engfer
P.O. Box 7921
Madison, WI 53701
William.Engfer@dnr.state.wi.us

All this from the same people who want to see all dams removed so rivers can go back to a natural flow. To heck with everyone who has invested much of thier life savings on lakeshore property or a business on one of the many reservoirs or flowages here in WI.
Why do we have so many idiots in this country? It's scarey what a bunch of doo gooder tree huggers can get done simply because they band together.
 
I will send a reply to Mr. Engfer.

You MUST stop this discussion about "noise". Noise is something that no one likes. The sound level of a craft, any craft, water or air is something that can be scientifically measured and modified. I trust that this writer is not calling for the immediate grounding of all light airplanes in Wisconsin, but they and airboats all 'sound' the way they do for the same reason .... they are driven forward by a propeller.

The sound standard DNR has proposed for you all is very do-able as written, but you will be able to meet a tougher standard (like ours in Florida in certain areas ...... 90db @ 50') if it becomes necessary. We proved that last weekend at the Quiet Airboat Demo.

For now, get that language changed. That's job #1. Nobody wants noise, and refuse to accept that airboats make any.

feather
 
Keep in mind that what we showcased at the Quiet Airboat Demo is that technology existsto meet airboat performance standards for reduced sound are a reality in VERY SKINNY WATER (4" deep). My vessel was down 25% in RPM's over the same speed in deep water at this test.

To attempt to retro existing boats to these standards as demonstrated would be very costly and not practical. In my opinion, conducting this same test in water deeper than 3' will result in higher dB readings, so please qualify the results we produced.

The point was to show the goal of a quieter airboat is possible. That new boats can be manufactured that can either come very close or at times meet the sound goals and that existing boats can take steps to drop their sound levels lower. (mufflers, solid exhaust, lower RPM's ect)

We must be careful to articulate in the public realm the REAl meaning of the results from the demo. I can assure you that if folks less than sympathetic to our cause gain the numbers we produced on May 20, they will become the POSTER CHILD BENCHMARK numbers to target rather than useful numbers in a series of educational demonstrations.

PW
 
I'm not real sure if I'll make it to Madison for the hearing, which is ok because I'm on record anyway from the LaCrosse hearing, and in writing.

It'll be interesting to see how many negative comments will be made..... kind of reminds me of the mourning dove season fiasco a few years back.(probably the same people!)

One thing I noticed from the last hearing is how there was too much emphasis on exemptions currently in the law (search and rescue, commercial fishing, etc.) and looking for a loophole. That is not the answer to the problem.

Anyway, I'm not getting real excited about this until we see what the DNR will take back to the NR Board. We'll have plenty of warning and time to fight.

Plus it still has to go thru committee and the Legislature.

Whoever goes to Madison, please post a report.



BTW, I'm very happy how Mr. Engfer has been handling this so far. We could have done alot worse with someone else.
 
I'm not happy with Engfer at all. I called last Thursday asking for him to contact me back when he was in the office so that he could explain some of this and I have still not heard anything from him. Glad that some of the folks here were able to help me out with some info.

As with you, I need to hear what they are proposing in the end. I had to laugh when I read the minutes of the NRB meeting in Jan. when this took off. We can make this exemption, and that one- what a joke. And it begins as a sound level issue, then all of the do-gooders let their true feelings be known on how these boats are ruining the flora and fauna!

I'll try to post tomorrow what transpires, but I need to be in MI right after for a big tournament. I have to make sure that Mr. Miller doesn't make it to the top!
 
I'll admit, it took some time for Bill to get back with me at first, but that's the way most DNR employees are in my experience. I'll normally give them a week, then start working up the chain of command if needed. (Besides, it was a holiday weekend, which for gov't might as well mean "week")

What I meant is at least Engfer knows something about airboats, and isn't totally against us.

How would we fare if the person in charge was totally against airboats from the start, and you KNOW there are people in DNR who feel that way. At least I think we're getting a fair shake at it.
 
Thosse of you from Wi will likely agree with me in that we are seeing an increasing trend from the DNR in that they are way to political. What often comes down from Madison is more likely to be what they feel to be in thier best interests, not in the interests of the fish and game or the hunter or angler.
The way I see it is that if you have enough money and political clout you can get what you want from them regardless if it is not in the best interests of what they are in charge of protecting.
Seeing as how the DNR is funded almost entirely by anglers and hunters dollars from license sales and excise tax monies why do they continually seem to be influenced by the greens who in fact put little towards funding the DNR and it's employees?
It's even worse if you are a guide, resorter, or bait dealer cause they do not seem to care as they continually seem to side with the recreational property owners and retired snow birds that wish all the businesses would just go away and leave the lakes to them. Never mind many of us were here first and "paid our dues" by struggling many years just to make ends meet. They instead choose to listen to the fat cats that can afford to build half million dollar lake homes??
The key to getting anything done with the DNR is first to get to the natural resources board and then to let the outdoor media know the facts as well. Don't waste your time with MR Engfer, go right to the natural resources board. They do not work for the DNR!!
The DNR also does not like negative media and will either try to wiggle out of it with spin or will try to keep the media on thier side if possible.

Here is a link to the names and addresses of the Natural Resource Board members http://dnr.wi.gov/org/nrboard/members/
Let them know how you feel and that politics have no place in managing our resources or regulations that pertain to them. The NRB may actually be our only hope in getting reasonable regulations that we can live with
 
wiwoodsman2003":ymee6l9i said:
Thosse of you from Wi will likely agree with me in that we are seeing an increasing trend from the DNR in that they are way to political. What often comes down from Madison is more likely to be what they feel to be in thier best interests, not in the interests of the fish and game or the hunter or angler.
The way I see it is that if you have enough money and political clout you can get what you want from them regardless if it is not in the best interests of what they are in charge of protecting.
Seeing as how the DNR is funded almost entirely by anglers and hunters dollars from license sales and excise tax monies why do they continually seem to be influenced by the greens who in fact put little towards funding the DNR and it's employees?
It's even worse if you are a guide, resorter, or bait dealer cause they do not seem to care as they continually seem to side with the recreational property owners and retired snow birds that wish all the businesses would just go away and leave the lakes to them. Never mind many of us were here first and "paid our dues" by struggling many years just to make ends meet. They instead choose to listen to the fat cats that can afford to build half million dollar lake homes??
The key to getting anything done with the DNR is first to get to the natural resources board and then to let the outdoor media know the facts as well. Don't waste your time with MR Engfer, go right to the natural resources board. They do not work for the DNR!!
The DNR also does not like negative media and will either try to wiggle out of it with spin or will try to keep the media on thier side if possible.

Here is a link to the names and addresses of the Natural Resource Board members http://dnr.wi.gov/org/nrboard/members/
Let them know how you feel and that politics have no place in managing our resources

or regulations that pertain to them. The NRB may actually be our only hope in getting reasonable regulations that we can live with
Click to expand...

Very nicely put. :)

Wish I shared the same optimism with the NR Board.

Another reason why I'm not on the Conservation Congress anymore........ makes me sick how some things got rammed thru and others buried.

As for the DNR and negative media........ that could work against us. There are more of "them" than us airboaters. And they have money....... and live around Madison......... and like to canoe the lower WI river, where this all started anyway as I understand.

At LaCrosse, it was brought up about a "testing session" to find out what the boats will do at the proposed distance.......... any news on that ????
 
Have not heard much from the last meeting and as the DNR always seems to like to hold these damn meetings during the summer when some of us in no way can get to them most of the time, I will not be able to attend the meeting or the teleconference the 1st as I have had a guide booking on the callender for a long time now and have to tend to that. Same s**t with thier lake planning meetings they are having up here. They get with the snow birds and set them up not only in the summer but also on Saturday mornings when they know damn well that no guides or resorters can attend. I don't think they want anyone there that actually knows anything!
Let me know how it all goes.
As for the DNR, when they do good I commend them but when they screw up and try to spin out of it I don't cut them any slack. We have "nailed" them plenty lately on the radio here in NW WI as they seem to be getting worse. Looks like I may have to crucify the DNR again. You would think they would learn.
 
Thanks for the info guys. IT actually sounds to me like we may want to support the current ideas that they are proposing. I don't wnat restrictions any more than the next guy, but we all know it's coming. Maybe this compromise is really a good thing? I see where you are coming from with Engfer now, and yes, that will help. I have absolutely no time for the DNR (more stories than I can tell), and even less time for the Conservation Congress. The NRB I have seen in a more favorable light than the other two, believe it or not.

We'll see how today goes.

Chris
 
Take a look at the June 2 edition of Wisconsin Outdoor News, page 3.

In the Commentary section there is an article written by Prof. emeritus Tom Clafin of LaCrosse titled "River enthusiast must compromise".

I'll just quote a small section as it's fairly lengthy....

The restriction of boat traffic with its concomitant elements of wakes, noise, and other disturbances associated with the presensce of people is certainly appropriate for many of these critical areas. The restriction of airboats and hovercaft is also appropriate in some areas due to their extreme invasiveness. Simply stated, there are just some areas where people and their machines should not be during the critical times in the life cycles of some wildlife species.
Click to expand...

Not what I wanted to see. :x
 
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