AVERAGE AIRBOATERS FIXING TO GIT BURNED AGAIN?

SHOULD THE FAA SEEK A STATE LAW FOR 90 db at 50 Feet.

YES
7
3%
NO
201
97%
 
Total votes: 208

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Re: AVERAGE AIRBOATERS FIXING TO GIT BURNED AGAIN?

Postby D-BREWSTER » Mon Apr 27, 2009 11:13 am

WELL IF THE FAA'S HANDS ARE TIED BECAUSE THEY HAVE TO VOTE LIKE THE MAJORITY OF THEIR AFFILIATES VOTE AND THEY CANT HAVE A OFFICIAL POSITION UNTILL THIS VOTE.

THEN WE NEED A LIST OF ALL THE FAA AFFILIATES SO WE CAN LOBBY THEM AND LET THEM KNOW HOW THEIR CUSTOMERS AND CLUB MEMBERS FEEL ABOUT THIS ISSUE.

WE BETTER STOP THIS AT THE PASS BEFORE IT EVER MAKES IT TO A VOTE..
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Re: AVERAGE AIRBOATERS FIXING TO GIT BURNED AGAIN?

Postby CaneFan » Mon Apr 27, 2009 11:55 am

I voted no of course, but I too would like to know from the three who have so far voted yes why they would want this. Like many have said here, make it known why you would support such a law.
IMO, I think it is mostly about glory hounding for the two individuals who showed up in Tall. with dilusions of grandeur only to leave like wipped pups with their tails between their legs. These are guys desperate to be something or somebody. These are guys who have never been anything but a joke thier whole life and think a picture with the Governor hanging on thier office wall would change that. We've got some members here with some AMAZING Photo Shop skills. Can't we make thier dream come true? I volunteer to supply the fancy frames if someone here will produce the photos.
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Re: AVERAGE AIRBOATERS FIXING TO GIT BURNED AGAIN?

Postby cntry141iq » Mon Apr 27, 2009 11:57 am

brew you said it right when you said it is a few that are screwin it up for the many ... it seems the story here in manatee county is one airboat caused the famous ordinance to be adopted here. Like it or not money talks and as more people with money move to the shores of waterways there will be more rules written. If airboaters would go ride in the wilderness areas there would be less problems but they want to buzz folks houses at night in populated areas. I was once told that when it is all said and done the only places you will be ridin your airboats will be kissimmee, okeechobee, and the glades and looks more and more like it will come to pass. This is not my view but one that presented to me by a person in the know and no I won't name them.

This will partly come to pass because of the fact that it is so hard to measure db levels ... it is easier to just ban them or restrict them to certain hours and places. The current law in florida states that boating is a privilidge .. not a right so it is able to be taken away more easily. It appears the movement is underway to do just that when it comes to airboats all because of a few airboaters. There was talk of a sound certification test that could be administered and if passed a sticker could be placed on a boat enabling it to operate expanded hours but it went by the wayside so far.

This problem is not going to go away for sure. I am not in favor of any laws restricting anything in anyway but if it comes down to that is the only way to have an airboat well what are we gonna do ... it will be either comply or get regulated to the certain areas. This has already ahppened to a lot of four wheelers and I see us as being next. It won't happen overnight but it probably will happen eventually. If a regulation would stop the banning of them well ok then but it probably won't. This is just another round in a very long battle the trick is gonna be not to resort to infighting but to remain a strong force united.

The regulatory people have hoped peer pressure and self regulation would help but you can see how well any mention of being quieter around houses is so well recieved. So what will happen will be the banning or restricting of airboats. Once again the few will screw it up for the many. It won't matter if the FAA is in favor or opposed to it as far as it getting introduced. It will matter when it comes time to fight it then it will take a lot of money and effort and a united front. I don't think beatin a lawmakers arse is gonna work it will require cool heads and lots of negotiation. There may be what we consider a lot of airboaters who vote but the reality is there are a lot more waterfront property owners that vote so it may come down to a numbers game.

Again don't shoot me I didn't go to the capitol and seek a law against us but one will be coming one of thes days if we don't change how we do things. We are not gonna get anywhere by trying to shove things down someones throat no matter how tempting it is.
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Re: AVERAGE AIRBOATERS FIXING TO GIT BURNED AGAIN?

Postby cntry141iq » Mon Apr 27, 2009 12:03 pm

so I guess the bottom line is ... if you know someone who is running around raisin hell near houses you may want to tell them to re-think it because it is gonna get us. The guys in the glades or okeechobee (out on the lake) or in kissimmee area away from the house are not the problem. Like the guy here in manatee county ... he went running through the million dollar house neighbor hoods where airboats had very seldom if ever ran and he all but got us banned here. yeah we can go a few places but can't go hardly anywhere between 6pm and 8 am. except intracoastal waterway yahoo that is fun for sure. Aint no frogs in the intracoastal around here LOL
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Re: AVERAGE AIRBOATERS FIXING TO GIT BURNED AGAIN?

Postby FASTLANE » Mon Apr 27, 2009 12:10 pm

IT SEEMS THAT IT ALL COME DOWN TO THE MIGHTY DOLLAR. I'M NOT SPENDING ANY MORE MONEY ON THESE CRAZY LAWS. I SAID THAT I WASN'T BUYING MUFFLERS , BUT I DID. IT'S NEVER GONIG TO STOP, THEY WILL NOT BE HAPPY TILL THEY SHUT US DOWN. I'VE HEARD PEOPLE SAY THAT DAY WILL HAPPEN. THEY ALREADY THANK THAT WE ARE ALL OUTLAWS, SO I SAY IF THEY KEEP IT UP LET SHOW THEM WHAT OUTLAWS ARE ALL ABOUT.

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Re: AVERAGE AIRBOATERS FIXING TO GIT BURNED AGAIN?

Postby grant » Mon Apr 27, 2009 12:24 pm

cntry141iq wrote: We are not gonna get anywhere by trying to shove things down someones throat no matter how tempting it is.


Maybe I am missing something.....How does trying to protect what you have fit in the above quote??

Seems to me a few squeaky wheels with lake front addresses are doing the shoving!

MY BAD....I don't want to get shoved any more!!
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Re: AVERAGE AIRBOATERS FIXING TO GIT BURNED AGAIN?

Postby cowboy » Mon Apr 27, 2009 12:36 pm

I still want to hear the Official FAA Position on this issue.

They have one, and I don't care if it matters in the end, or what difference it may, or may not make in Tallahassee ultimately.
It matters to me, and allot of other Southern Airboaters.

I want to hear that the FAA leadership is going to work hard to do everything possible, so that Bondo never gets any Marching Orders to got get a 90db at 50 feet deal done.

I want to know what the FAA's position on this deal is.

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Re: AVERAGE AIRBOATERS FIXING TO GIT BURNED AGAIN?

Postby Rich Andrews » Mon Apr 27, 2009 12:41 pm

x2
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Re: AVERAGE AIRBOATERS FIXING TO GIT BURNED AGAIN?

Postby JSTORMS » Mon Apr 27, 2009 12:48 pm

As president of the Broward club, I can tell you we are AGAINST the 90db at 50'. And I can pretty much tell that the leadership of the FAA feels the same way. But, the reason this question came up is because the president of any club including the FAA must represent the opinion of the club he is the president of, not his own opinion. I know what the president of the FAA opinion is on this issue, but it is his responsibility to ask where all of the members of the FAA are on this subject, and represent that opinion, even if it isn't his own. But rest assured, the leadership of the FAA is definately on our side and is taking a PROACTIVE stance on airboating issues instead of a REACTIVE one. I know the president of the FAA will comment on this issue, but like the rest of us he is at work and will definately get on here and clear the air as soon as he gets to a computer.
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Re: AVERAGE AIRBOATERS FIXING TO GIT BURNED AGAIN?

Postby Wildfowl » Mon Apr 27, 2009 12:52 pm

I think Chuck nailed it.

chuckitt@earthlink.net wrote:During the State Noise Testing in Ocala, FWC found that they could not prove 90 db at 50 ft.. There were too many variables.......... Capt. Richard Moore of FWC said their officers would not be doing any noise testing due to not being able to prove the results. The Law is set so it should be left alone.



I have been airboating in NE since 1970. Now I am an information consultant to government agencies and academic institutions and have been involved in many legislative/regulatory issues.

I testified on the noise issue in NE and we ended up with the mufflers, and a DB limit with the boat “on plane”(except approved registered race events) but no one would be writing any tickets. Too difficult to enforce/prove readings in court and no budget for equipment or training. This works out well for most because if a jerk builds a fire breathing straight pipe that sparks complaints we can use the law to protect the airboating community as a whole. Today the vast majority of boaters build reasonable rigs both AC & CM.

In my experience with state and federal legislators as well as regulatory agencies I would have to agree with Chuck’s comment on “leave it alone.” Snuff this out as quickly and “quietly” as possible.

Speak softly and carry a big stick. Senators like short personal letters and emails (one paragraph max will get read). A visit to their office is a 10x impression. They seem to put less stock in bulk / mass / out-of-state email blasts from special interest groups.

Save your big stick for when it counts like during a legislative hearing on a proposal. Keep in mind that if you play a “march on the capitol card” the press could spin it against you…and…will your opponents be able to counter with a larger march?????

imho... Snuff this out as quickly and quietly as you can!

…when it comes to noise we are all in this together.

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Re: AVERAGE AIRBOATERS FIXING TO GIT BURNED AGAIN?

Postby robert4570 » Mon Apr 27, 2009 12:54 pm

I think flex pipes are enough as it is, Voted No.
The whole audible levels @ X ft is nothing more than a step to the next requirement.
Whats next an environmental approach towards more harrassment in the form of emissions standards for airboats???
Its all boils down to the long term goal of outright banning.
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Re: AVERAGE AIRBOATERS FIXING TO GIT BURNED AGAIN?

Postby glades cat » Mon Apr 27, 2009 1:04 pm

I saw Bishop at the AAOF BBQ and the sound subject came up. I'd sure like for him to get on here and clear things up and dispel false info. He gets input from local clubs as to where they stand on issues...some clubs don't provide input, some do. Some members are not of same mind as their club. "Let Bishop know which club you belong to and he'll let you know how they voted."...In his own words.

Personally, I believe the sound level standards specific to airboats is unlawful. The noise is the complaint...the object producing it is inconsequential...that's blind justice! That's the battle I chose not to give in to.
Don't point your legal finger at me, and only me. Airboats are the same as offshore powerboats and center consoles. Adjudicate equally.

Realistically, the regulatory fire is upon us, the embers of enforcement burn our pockets in efforts to comply, they leave desolate fields of burnt dreams and tradition, we will be viewed by the battles we fought...together, our hope lies in the legacy our kids will inherit.

He'll no I ain't givin in.

I found this, I highlighted some of it and posted the web site on the bottom. Interesting how arbitrary sound levels figures are thrown out for grabs. Which one do you pick? haha
=============================================================================================

Studies cited in this paper support the following statements of fact:
Noise limits in residential suburbs should not exceed Day-Night Sound Levels (LDN) of 55 dBA

Intermittent noise from boat traffic exceeding 75 dBA in a 60 dBA ambient can cause some shoreline residents to [color=#FF0000]become highly annoyed

Exhaust noise is the number one cause of complaints against noisy boats

Early state boating noise regulations limited pass by noise with limits ranging from 82 to 86 dBA, and one state (FL) at 90 dBA

Boats with unmuffled exhaust cannot operate at planning speed on most inland waterways without exceeding 75 dBA at the shoreline

Surveys show that boats that exceed 88 to 90 dBA in the stationary mode per SAE J2005 do not employ effective exhaust silencing means

Correlation studies indicate that boats with stationary sound levels exceeding 90 dBA produce pass by sound levels that can be well in excess of 100 dBA at a distance of 50 ft.

Tests performed on large twin-engine motor cruisers conclusively prove that high-powered boats can be fitted with exhaust muffling systems producing pass by sound levels in the range of 74 to 84 dBA measured at a distance of 50 ft. Power ratings for these boats ranged from 700 to 1600 horsepower

Ohio regulations are extremely lenient in that they impose specific sound level limits on exhaust noise in the idle speed mode only, thereby imposing absolutely no limitations on full throttle operation and/or power.
A BRIEF HISTORY of BOAT NOISE REGULATIONS – 1970 to 1987
The first significant effort to regulate sound emissions from pleasure motorboats in the U.S. came about as a result of amendments to the Clean Air Act of 1970. Under this act the U.S. Environmental Protection Agency (EPA) established the Office of Noise Abatement and Control (ONAC) with the intent studying the noise problem in the U.S. Following the initial EPA study of product noise, Congress passed a bill that authorized establishment of the Noise Control Act of 1972. This legislation authorized EPA to label products as to their noise generating characteristics and to determine feasible goals for product noise reduction. Products that were within the scope of EPA jurisdiction included construction, agricultural, commercial and recreational equipment to name a few. The stated objective by EPA was to eventually require manufacturers to issue warrants that their products were in compliance at the time of sale. An initial EPA survey of products in the recreational field identified exhaust systems as the primary source of noise.

Federal activity regarding noise control regulations caused the marine industry to initiate activity within the Society of Automotive Engineers [SAE] in the early 1970’s to develop a measurement standard for certifying compliance. Development of this standard began in 1971 and eventually became known as SAE J34, the Exterior Sound Level Measurement Procedure for Pleasure Motorboats.

[color=#FFFF00]Following an extended period of indecision on the part of the federal government it was eventually decided that EPA would not attempt to regulate sound emissions from pleasure motorboats and other commercial/recreational products as earlier indicated. Consequently, individual states began enacting legislation, subsequently developing agencies within the framework of the various state governments to instigate legislation and enforcement of state boat noise regulations. Unfortunately, efforts to apply SAE J34 to on-the-water enforcement of local/state boat noise regulations were largely unsuccessful. The primary problem was that SAE J34 was designed as a manufacturers test and did not lend itself to on-the-water enforcement.
[/color]

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Re: AVERAGE AIRBOATERS FIXING TO GIT BURNED AGAIN?

Postby Coverall » Mon Apr 27, 2009 1:12 pm

I have never been involved in DB levels or testing. I would like to help or borrow some equipment to do some testing. What numbers are we able to reach and meet. I don't want more laws ect.. I'm not for any law or to approve anything at this time without doing some testing and seeing what can be met. I also know that law enforcement isn't doing their job on mufflers in all counties. I see boats with no mufflers all the time. We do need to self police ourselves or someone locally or federally will do it for us. I've been to County meetings and a few people say they can't sleep @ night do to noise and can't perform their job's the next day and airboaters out number them 98% & they say you haven't done a good job policing yourselves and sherrifs & whoever want police any noise complaints so county just says O.K. lets bann airboats @ night and specifically discreminate against air boats. I know that sounds like they can't do that but I've been their and seen it. I'm here to help anyone I can when I have the time.
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Re: AVERAGE AIRBOATERS FIXING TO GIT BURNED AGAIN?

Postby SwampMatt » Mon Apr 27, 2009 1:29 pm

What FAA affiliates are pushing for this?

I don't think ANYONE in the FAA is wanting this.

Name some names!

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Re: AVERAGE AIRBOATERS FIXING TO GIT BURNED AGAIN?

Postby Joe » Mon Apr 27, 2009 1:37 pm

george wrote I'm not for any law or to approve anything at this time without doing some testing and seeing what can be met.


I really don`t like that statment,I know your on that board with the rat fink,don`t let him get in your ear.We don`t need anybody,especially some one in your position to start wanting any new sound laws EVER.!!! Stand with us or against us,but don`t stradle the fence and be a poser too.
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Re: AVERAGE AIRBOATERS FIXING TO GIT BURNED AGAIN?

Postby cntry141iq » Mon Apr 27, 2009 1:58 pm

I don't think this is a new law ... I think it exists already it just has never been enforced ... here it is right out of the current florida statutes ...


327.65 Muffling devices.--

(1) The exhaust of every internal combustion engine used on any vessel operated on the waters of this state shall be effectively muffled by equipment so constructed and used as to muffle the noise of the exhaust in a reasonable manner. The use of cutouts is prohibited, except for vessels competing in a regatta or official boat race, and for such vessels while on trial runs.

(2)(a) Any county wishing to impose additional noise pollution and exhaust regulations on vessels may, pursuant to s. 327.60(1), adopt by county ordinance the following regulations:

1. No person shall operate or give permission for the operation of any vessel on the waters of any county or on a specified portion of the waters of any county, including the Florida Intracoastal Waterway, which has adopted the provisions of this section in such a manner as to exceed the following sound levels at a distance of 50 feet from the vessel: for all vessels, a maximum sound level of 90 dB A.

2. Any person who refuses to submit to a sound level test when requested to do so by a law enforcement officer is guilty of a misdemeanor of the second degree, punishable as provided in s. 775.082 or s. 775.083.

(b) The following words and phrases, when used in this section, shall have the meanings respectively assigned to them in this subsection.

1. "dB A" means the composite abbreviation for the A-weighted sound level and the unit of sound level, the decibel.

2. "Sound level" means the A-weighted sound pressure level measured with fast response using an instrument complying with the specification for sound level meters of the American National Standards Institute, Inc., or its successor bodies, except that only a weighting and fast dynamic response need be provided.

History.--s. 7, ch. 59-400; s. 11, ch. 63-105; s. 1, ch. 65-361; s. 5, ch. 86-35; s. 47, ch. 91-224.

Note.--Former s. 371.56.

Now it seems the state doesn't use the 90 db but it is available to any one else already and it looks like you have to submit to the sound test as well ... does anyone else read this differently
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Re: AVERAGE AIRBOATERS FIXING TO GIT BURNED AGAIN?

Postby cntry141iq » Mon Apr 27, 2009 2:07 pm

grant wrote:
cntry141iq wrote: We are not gonna get anywhere by trying to shove things down someones throat no matter how tempting it is.


Maybe I am missing something.....How does trying to protect what you have fit in the above quote??

Seems to me a few squeaky wheels with lake front addresses are doing the shoving!

MY BAD....I don't want to get shoved any more!!



Grant I was refering to the " I was here first so too bad " statements that always come up when this subject does That kind of stuff never works in my opinion but hey maybe it will this time. Why don't we all just throw the nufflers away and ditch the flags and ignore all the curfews and tell em all to kiss off we were here first before the laws so too bad and we can all put machine guns on our boats and shoot anyone that bothers us maybe even a rocket launcher or two as well that would show em who is the boss yepper buddy they won't shove us around then for sure LOL yeah right but just for the record like I said it aint the glades boats that are the problem it is alot of other places and it is a few airboats causing the problem.
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Re: AVERAGE AIRBOATERS FIXING TO GIT BURNED AGAIN?

Postby cntry141iq » Mon Apr 27, 2009 2:12 pm

One more thing ... why on earth would ya'll want to send the FAA back to tallahassee with anything??? last time they went we got our very own muffler law and our very own flag law which were almost criminal offenses ... even the FWC said it was crazy to ask for non-discrimnation when in the very bill being requested there was discrimanatory language in it ...

327.391 Airboats regulated.--

(1) The exhaust of every internal combustion engine used on any airboat operated on the waters of this state shall be provided with an automotive-style factory muffler, underwater exhaust, or other manufactured device capable of adequately muffling the sound of the exhaust of the engine as described in s. 327.02(24). The use of cutouts or flex pipe as the sole source of muffling is prohibited, except as provided in subsection (4). Any person who violates this subsection commits a noncriminal infraction punishable as provided in s. 327.73(1).

(2) An airboat operator cited for an infraction of subsection (1) may not operate the airboat until a muffler as defined in s. 327.02 is installed.

(3) An airboat may not operate on the waters of the state unless it is equipped with a mast or flagpole bearing a flag at a height of at least 10 feet above the lowest portion of the vessel. The flag must be square or rectangular, at least 10 inches by 12 inches in size, international orange in color, and displayed so that the visibility of the flag is not obscured in any direction. Any person who violates this subsection commits a noncriminal infraction punishable as provided in s. 327.73(1).

(4) This section does not apply to a person participating in an event for which a permit is required, or of which notice must be given, under s. 327.48.

History.--s. 2, ch. 2006-172.
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Re: AVERAGE AIRBOATERS FIXING TO GIT BURNED AGAIN?

Postby Wildfowl » Mon Apr 27, 2009 2:43 pm

I read it as ...

State Level: "Effectively muffled"..."in a reasonable manner." Very subjective and wide open. My research has shown the satisfaction of those terms to mean a muffler of some type appropriate for the power plant. No 90 DB requirement.

County Level: Yes...90 db "Only if so adopted by the statutes of the county." If the county did not officially adopt this into their statutes than no standard other than state level and no requirement to submitt to any testing.

Like Chuck was hinting at the testing can be thrown out by a dozen ways. Compare the noise testing to other common mechanical samples and rate them on margin of error. 1= no or very little error and 10=multiple error readings. Ok...speed/radar check (1.5), Alochol Breath testing (5), Noise testing ...off the scale and probably around a 20 in comparison.

I provide LE, defense, and courts with informaiton on the accuracy and inaccuracy potentials of these tests. So noise testing.... here is the rub. What testing unit was used? When was it calibrated? What is it's accuracy level. Who used it to sample? Were they traind - certified - recertified and when? What is their experience? How many tests have they done? What was the temperature - humidity - barometric pressure? Was it cloudy or sunny? Was the wind blowing - direction - speed? What was the environment water - grass - pavement - trees - bluffs? What was the background noise.

Soo many subjective variables and just as many "scientific" variables. The person sampling would need to be at the least a trained technician.

So, Most states have adopted the "effectively muffled in a reasonable manner" language.

Mike Eastern - NE
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Re: AVERAGE AIRBOATERS FIXING TO GIT BURNED AGAIN?

Postby cntry141iq » Mon Apr 27, 2009 3:13 pm

yep Mike so far no one has figured out how to do it ... even manatee county florida I don't beleive has prosecuted one yet .. SO the flip side to all of that is ... that it is easier to ban or restrict the hours of operation which is what most are going for and yes it all can be fought but at a cost ... and one day the powers to be will figure out a 90 db test method ... I would say the 90 db law needs to be struck out as being an unenforceable law and then it wouldn't keep getting everyone all excited over nothing .. if they can't enforce why have it. It just causes huge amounts of stress periodically when it is brought up ... but it does exoist so it isn' t a new law it is real and the counties only need a 2/3 majority vote to enact special regulations for airboats .. they tried (faa) to get it to require a super majority but that was stripped from the bill last time now it is a simple 2/3 majority it is of little concern though as most always pass unanimously when put to a vote.

I don't want sound laws but they are coming one day or else bans will be coming one thing is for sure maybe we need a lesser of two evils but most often no compromise is even considered it is all or nothing because we were here first and I agree when you give an inch they want a mile but it is always that way compromise usually just stalls the inevitable but it is a choice where as an outright ban really sucks
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Re: AVERAGE AIRBOATERS FIXING TO GIT BURNED AGAIN?

Postby Waterthunder » Mon Apr 27, 2009 3:29 pm

Only an idiot would want to induce more government regulation!
THE PROOF IS IN THE PROP!

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Re: AVERAGE AIRBOATERS FIXING TO GIT BURNED AGAIN?

Postby cntry141iq » Mon Apr 27, 2009 3:45 pm

Thunder ... I agree ... what I said earlier .. "I would say the 90 db law needs to be struck out as being an unenforceable law and then it wouldn't keep getting everyone all excited over nothing .. if they can't enforce why have it. It just causes huge amounts of stress periodically when it is brought up ... but it does exoist so it isn' t a new law it is real"
Don't waste your time ... it is the only thing you can't get more of
.. if it accidentally looks like I gave advice please ignore it .. and notify me immediately

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Re: AVERAGE AIRBOATERS FIXING TO GIT BURNED AGAIN?

Postby D-BREWSTER » Mon Apr 27, 2009 3:54 pm

MOODFOOD WROTE -What FAA affiliates are pushing for this?

I don't think ANYONE in the FAA is wanting this.

Name some names!


MATT YOU TELL US BROTHER !!! YOU AND CHARITY ARE THE SOUTHEN AIRBOAT DELRGATES FOR US , WE WERE NOT AT THE MEETING SO WE DONT KNOW WHO PASSED AROUND THE QUESTIONEER ABOUT THE 90 DB'S @50 FT. OR WHO IT WAS THAT WANTED YOU TO BRING IT UP TO THE S.A. MEMBERS TO GET THEIR IMPUT BUT ITS CLEAR THAT SOMEONE HAD TO OF WROTE THE QUESTIONEER AND WANTED IMPUT ON THE IDEA RATHER IT BE FROM FAA MEMBERS OR S.A. MEMBERS..

WE ARE NOT POINTING FINGERS AT YOU THE FAA OR BISHOP OR JOHN OR ANYONE ELSE , I THINK EVERYONE JUST WANTS TO SEE IT IN BLACK AND WHITE THAT THE FAA DOES NOT AND WILL NOT EVEN CONSIDER PUTTING THAT LAW UP FOR A VOTE MUCH LESS BACK A LAW. JOHN STORMS GAVE US EXACTLY WHAT WE ASKED FOR AND STATED HIS POSITION. IM SURE BISHOP WILL DO THE SAME

JOHN STORMS IS 100 % CORRECT , I ALSO TALKED WITH BISHOP ABOUT THIS VERY ISSUE SATURDAY AND I ASKED BISHOP STRAIGHT UP " YOU GUYS AINT GONNA BACK THIS 90 DB'S @ 50 FT. ARE YOU ?" BISHOP SAID WE WILL IF OUR AFFILIATES VOTE FOR IT , BUT IN MY OWN OPINION I DONT AGREE WITH IT AND I DONT WANT IT !! AND HE WENT ON TO ECHO BONNIES STATEMENT ABOUT THE PEOPLE WHO DO WANT IT TO HAPPEN AND THERE THE SAME ENEMYS WE HAVE BATTLED BEFORE. IM NOT GONNA TALK FOR BISHOP IM SURE HE WILL COME ON HERE AND SPEAK FOR HIMSELF .. JOHN AND BISHOP ARE BOTH IN THE SAME BOAT , THEIR PRESIDENTS OF CLUBS AND HAVE THEIR OWN OPINION BUT HAVE TO VOTE HOW THE MAJORITY OF THEIR CLUB WANTS... SO IF THATS THE CASE WE NEED TO MAKE SURE ALL OUR CLUB AFFILIATES AND MANUFACTURES AND FELLOW AIRBOATERS KNOW THAT WE DO NOT SUPPORT THIS IDEA OR LAW AND WANT OUR AFFILIATES TO VOTE ACCORDINLY.....
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Re: AVERAGE AIRBOATERS FIXING TO GIT BURNED AGAIN?

Postby BATTLE READY » Mon Apr 27, 2009 4:09 pm

I would like to know what "affiliates" voted for this. On the FAA website it lists there members.....are these members the ones who vote on this ? I will tell you this, if any of those members voted for this and they have an airboat business..........they will not get any of my business anymore. Also in the future I will reconsider my contributions to the FAA.

Rob

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Re: AVERAGE AIRBOATERS FIXING TO GIT BURNED AGAIN?

Postby Whitebear » Mon Apr 27, 2009 4:13 pm

I also voted no, and I voted no on another poll about this same topic in the last month. What part of NO is it they don't understand?

And for anyone thats been airboating for a while, it sure dont take a rocket scientist to figure out who is behind this kind of self serving proposal. As I also remember they have made the error of claiming to represent all airboaters in the past as well. Guess they just don't get the word.

Instead of a no opinion on the issue we should demand the FAA adopt a "NO" stance on this issue for once and for all.

I guess next were going to have to establish a fund to send the carpetbaggers back home when they don't like the airboat sounds.

This "sound" issue just keeps coming back, we gotta drive a wooden stake in its heart for once and for all.

We can guess who the instigators are but I sure would like to know who the affiliates are that say yes to it. ALSO WHO THE SA MEMBERS ARE WHO VOTED YES !!!!!!!

Scotty
"The Constitution is not so the government can restrain the people, it is so the people can restrain the government." Patrick Henry
The government cannot give anything --
that they have not first taken from someone else.


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