AR15 or Variant -vs- Weatherby

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Whitebear
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AR15 or Variant -vs- Weatherby

Post by Whitebear » Mon Apr 21, 2014 10:27 pm

AR15 or Variant -vs- Weatherby Vanguard .223

How about some discussion on this. I'm just thinking ahead. Not buying anything right now. I used to have a sweet Vanguard bolt gun for lopping turkey heads. Was a sweet shooter and easy to load performance/accuracy ammo for. My needs are not to fight off the US Gvt. or tackle the local Police or even slay a herd of attacking rabbits. More interested in accuracy and versatility.

Having said that, I have shot some AR stuff but not enough to even form an educated opinion. I see folks killing deer and hogs with AR now but I used to get laughed at when I did that with my old 6mm Remington 660. Everyone else was shooting -06, 08s, 270s. Never had an issue anchoring anything I took to task with my 6mm and hand loads. It seems unlikely I will ever be able to replace the 660 as they have always been rare in 6mm and over the years they haven't got any more plentiful.

So I guess now if and when I do go to buy another rifle its maybe going to be a toss up between an AR platform and another Vanguard bolt action. I have an aversion to black rifles but the green ones don't arouse that aversion, besides anything black today can be coated in green so its a non issue to be honest. So I guess first will the .223 anchor deer and hogs reliably? Next, does the AR platform have any real advantages for me over the Vanguard?

I have no need for night scopes, bayonets or .mil accessories that I know of. However the ability to mount such is neither a plus or minus for the purpose I would ever use the gun for.

Sometimes I look at ARs and shake my head, and other times I wonder what I am missing about these guns. From my memory M16s sure did get a lot of our guys killed in SE Asia. Granted guns from the 60s aren't the same as guns made today so this may just be leftover quiver when I pick one up.

I gave some serious consideration to an AR10 a few years back but after doing a LOT of reading up on them I came to the conclusion they are mostly fad guns and never got the bugs worked out of them. Thats out now.

Well AR15 -vs- Weatherby .223 Vanguard for a day time turkey, hog, deer gun?
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Re: AR15 or Variant -vs- Weatherby

Post by SWAMPHUNTER45 » Mon Apr 21, 2014 10:37 pm

http://www.fnhusa.com/l/products/autolo ... nar-heavy/

I have one of these and it does EVERYTHING!

A modern spin on the BAR, sub-minute of angle and semi auto

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Re: AR15 or Variant -vs- Weatherby

Post by MJD291 » Mon Apr 21, 2014 10:52 pm

Tough decision Whitebear. I love bolt guns but I spent a lot of time with an AR-15 in the ARMY and love them also. 20 years ago when I got out of the ARMY nobody I knew owned an AR but now I know very few people that don't have an AR. The AR platform has gotten huge and shows no sign of slowing down. There are so many configurations and accessories for them it is confusing. Both rifles will be tack drivers but the AR will have more options. I also like the option of removing 2 pins and placing another upper like 300 blackout and make another gun with 1 registered lower and the same 223 magazines. The ability to change uppers with 2 pins may also be a plus for you should you have another direction you are wanting to go with the gun.
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Re: AR15 or Variant -vs- Weatherby

Post by Cowboy Rock » Mon Apr 21, 2014 10:57 pm

I am looking hard at a 300 Blackout as my next build,,,

Scotty,,, I had a Van 6mm,,, Nothing but sweet,,,
Wet Dreams Too,,,

14 ft. Panther,,, 370ci SBC, 72 in Whirlwind Whispertip, Line-X-350 X bottom,,,

"Full bloodied Dog hunting man"

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Thats how I roll,,,

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Re: AR15 or Variant -vs- Weatherby

Post by Whitebear » Tue Apr 22, 2014 12:05 am

Do y'all think the .223 will reliably anchor pig and deer with 1 shot?
"The Constitution is not so the government can restrain the people, it is so the people can restrain the government." Patrick Henry
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Re: AR15 or Variant -vs- Weatherby

Post by Cowboy Rock » Tue Apr 22, 2014 5:58 am

I shoot the neck or head on a deer, and the head or in the ear on hogs,,, I aint had one to leave yet, in a hunting situation,,,

In a SHOOTING situation with Hogs, I'll try to put as many bullets in as many hogs as possible,,,

The more that make it out of the field, will be less that we have to drag out of the field the next day,,,
Wet Dreams Too,,,

14 ft. Panther,,, 370ci SBC, 72 in Whirlwind Whispertip, Line-X-350 X bottom,,,

"Full bloodied Dog hunting man"

Dry Branch, Ga.

Thats how I roll,,,

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Re: AR15 or Variant -vs- Weatherby

Post by digginfool » Tue Apr 22, 2014 7:47 am

If you ask me, can't beat the reliability or accuracy of a Remington Model 700. One of the finest shooting guns right out of the box. I own an AK and an M4LE. Fun guns to shoot, yes accurate but if you want to really reach out and touch something, can't beat the Model 700. Mine's chambered in 7mm Remington Mag with a Burris 3.5-10x50 scope.
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Re: AR15 or Variant -vs- Weatherby

Post by Comanche-pup » Tue Apr 22, 2014 8:47 am

Def agree with diggin, but whitebear please don't give the A2,3,4 the same bad credit as the A1, not even close to the same reliability, as far as military accessories, a pic rail mounts to almost any gun these days

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Re: AR15 or Variant -vs- Weatherby

Post by SWAMPHUNTER45 » Tue Apr 22, 2014 9:36 am

The Vangards are not what they used to be and the 700's are being investigated for unintentional discharges.
Sorry for the bad news...lol

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Tony480
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Re: AR15 or Variant -vs- Weatherby

Post by Tony480 » Tue Apr 22, 2014 10:03 am

The 700 can be fixed with a good quality trigger.....and your right about the weatherby not being what they used to be....
How much do you want for the Sig swamphunter?

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Re: AR15 or Variant -vs- Weatherby

Post by kwanjangnihm » Tue Apr 22, 2014 10:20 am

VERSATILITY!!! :rebel:

The standard chambering of an AR15 (5.56/.223) makes it an ideal gun for varmints, foxes, coyotes, hogs or other small game. If you want to use it to hunt bigger game, the ability to upgrade to varying caliber conversions is also available. The AR15 makes it easy to change out your 5.56/.223 chamber into a 6.5 Grendel (.264), .300 AAC, .300 Blackout or a 6.8sps (.277). Upgrading to these bigger calibers can allow you to hunt bigger game legally.

Whitebear,
I researched the Barnes TSX loads before using them last year in Georgia on 2 bucks. I harvested a 200# 9 point and shot him directly into the shoulder to see what the 70 grain bullet would do. It pole-axed him on the spot. My wife shot her 140# 6 point in the shoulder as well and he was DRT! Both shots were at 120 yards from the stand.
I am very impressed with the Barnes triple shock bullets on deer! I was shooting the Silver State Armory 5.56 70gr TSX loads.

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Last edited by kwanjangnihm on Sun Apr 27, 2014 7:38 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: AR15 or Variant -vs- Weatherby

Post by mojoe » Tue Apr 22, 2014 12:43 pm

I love my Vanguard in 7mm-08. I'm sure the .223 would kill anything you hit with it. If turkey is on the kill list, that is a great round up to medium deer. Only bad thing about the Weatherby is the stock. In a range situation, that angled comb is great. In real hunting situations, inconsistent cheek positioning led to inacuracy. I switched it out for a Boyds classic stock and it is sub-sub-MOA. Vs an AR for hunting, I believe it is a winner. Although you can make an AR style rifle into a great hunting rifle, it is not cost effective. Even after the stock swap, new the Vanguard is under $575. I don't think you can get a true sub MOA AR new for that. And the other benefits of an AR are not needed to hunt. Take your time, make a good shot, and (with a 7mm-08) animals fall over dead! I'll take accuracy over rapid fire for hunting.
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Re: AR15 or Variant -vs- Weatherby

Post by Cowboy Rock » Tue Apr 22, 2014 2:28 pm

Diggin,,, I got the same rifle too,,, 700 7 mag, Leaupold 3x9,,, Love it
Wet Dreams Too,,,

14 ft. Panther,,, 370ci SBC, 72 in Whirlwind Whispertip, Line-X-350 X bottom,,,

"Full bloodied Dog hunting man"

Dry Branch, Ga.

Thats how I roll,,,

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Re: AR15 or Variant -vs- Weatherby

Post by lotacarnage1 » Tue Apr 22, 2014 5:46 pm

this is my poor boy opinion.find a mosin nagant for about 100.00 then buy 94.00 dollars worth of round wich is 440 rounds.add a scope if you would like or take your time and zero the iron sights. for the price you will not be disapointed.no question enough take down for any north american game.jmo....
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Re: AR15 or Variant -vs- Weatherby

Post by bpd315 » Tue Apr 22, 2014 6:48 pm

I have 2 Vanguards in .257 Weatherby mag and 7mm Rem Mag. It seems you are sold in the .223 round and it is light for deer and doubtful on hogs here. Yes its expensive to shoot but that .257 Weatherby Mag is lights out.

That said...between the two I'd choose the Weatherby. I own black guns and in my opinion they are just two totally different platforms. For a hunting weapon, I believe you will find the Wearherby more versatile and a better performer.

Plus.....a bargin. Black guns get 'pensive.
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Re: AR15 or Variant -vs- Weatherby

Post by Aeon » Tue Apr 22, 2014 11:23 pm

this might do the trick for you since you like 6mm. This one is built by Dan Cary of az http://www.careycustomrifleco.com/ its chamberd in 6MM White Oak. pushes a 6mm 70gr bullet at 3400fps. Shilen Stainless barrel that shoots just amazing

Dan can also build a 6.8spc that round will put a thump on pigs for sure.

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Re: AR15 or Variant -vs- Weatherby

Post by SWAMPHUNTER45 » Wed Apr 23, 2014 6:12 am

That Carey gun looks very interesting! I like the off can't BUIS and the 6.8spc is almost identical to a .243 on paper. Nice build

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Re: AR15 or Variant -vs- Weatherby

Post by trailerdon » Wed Apr 23, 2014 6:40 am

Like the traditional rifle myself, 22-250 will make cottage cheese out of a hog head, but have not seen that round in an AR. If you do go AR and are looking for 223 be sure to get "223", the 556 round has higher pressure and i believe slightly differant head spacing, the rule is: you can shoot 223 from a 556 but not the other way around. The Vangaurd would have a better out of the box trigger, the AR trigger is horrible and would be your first $200 up-grade. And the final very important note; for hunting purpose you would want a 1/7 twist to shoot the hevier bullets accuratly. That being said I,m sure you'll do plenty of reserch with time on your side. Happy hunting

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Re: AR15 or Variant -vs- Weatherby

Post by SWAMPHUNTER45 » Wed Apr 23, 2014 6:51 am

I want a 5.56 gun so it likes both! Have seen 5.56 cases rupture in.223 chamber guns before no injuries but it shuts things down for a few minutes. A true 5.56 gun will feed .223 with no issues but in some, especially those old rough cut or sloppy M16A1 types a little extra lube is required.

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Re: AR15 or Variant -vs- Weatherby

Post by Sniper » Wed Apr 23, 2014 7:07 am

White Bear check and see what the twist rate is on that Vanguard most rifles unfortunately now a days use a 1 in 9 twist that good for 55 gn and up to maybe a 69 gn bullet maybe but the bullet you want to use on hogs is either a 75 or 77gn Sierra or Barnes solid on hogs and that requires a 1 in 8 or 7 twist barrel to stabilize them
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Re: AR15 or Variant -vs- Weatherby

Post by kwanjangnihm » Wed Apr 23, 2014 4:43 pm

Whitebear you know the old saying.........

Once you go black you never go back!! :thumbleft: :rebel:

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Re: AR15 or Variant -vs- Weatherby

Post by Comanche-pup » Wed Apr 23, 2014 9:13 pm

There is another saying " stay white and you will always be tight"

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Re: AR15 or Variant -vs- Weatherby

Post by Whitebear » Wed Apr 23, 2014 10:00 pm

Never seen a white gun. Please don't turn this thread into something it isn't.
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Re: AR15 or Variant -vs- Weatherby

Post by AirRanger » Wed Apr 23, 2014 10:19 pm

WB, Is it legal to tale turkey with centerfire on private land? I only ask because all WMA brochures that I have read state shotgun, muzzle load, or rimfire in those areas. I don't know much about private property, wish I had a reason too.
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Re: AR15 or Variant -vs- Weatherby

Post by Whitebear » Wed Apr 23, 2014 10:33 pm

Guess they have upgraded or changed the rules. I have only shot Turkey a few times in FL with the .223 and it was always on private land. I actually never knew it wasn't allowed in the WMAs. Guess its a crowding issue there. Tennessee don't or didn't care if ya used Field Artillery even. In Africa you can even drop bombs on birds.
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The government cannot give anything --
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