Pancake v/s full cage (Burns)

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Comanche-pup
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Pancake v/s full cage (Burns)

Postby Comanche-pup » Sat Jan 19, 2013 10:26 pm

What is the benefit from one to the other? I personally have a pancake around prop but have what I call wings that hinge on one end and bolt to other end.

MOD EDIT: I added the parentheses and word (Burns) to the title for the Safety Thread only. Made no text or content edits.

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Re: Pancake v/s full cage

Postby FLA BOY » Sat Jan 19, 2013 10:38 pm

Comanche-pup wrote:What is the benefit from one to the other? I personally have a pancake around prop but have what I call wings that hinge on one end and bolt to other end.


Pancakes are a lil bit lighter however they don't offer any protection to the engine if your off roading,
lol. The pancakes do make it a lot easier to get to the engine as well. However, I have seen guys get burned really bad walking into the flex pipe or hitting something and getting pitched out of the seat and into the flex pipe or engine. I personally prefer a pancake or a hybrid, but wouldn't recommend a pancake for a beginner. Jmo
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Re: Pancake v/s full cage

Postby skinny99 » Sat Jan 19, 2013 11:20 pm

Part of the decision making process involves where you will be riding. If you are going to be hunting and cutting trails through the woods and brush
then you may find that a full cage offers more protection for your prop. The angle of the cage also helps to push away any limbs or stick that you
may get hung up on, where the flat face of of a hybrid or pancake can catch.

The next thing to consider is who is around your boat and/or riding in it. Exhaust burns are very painful and lead to permanent scars. Trust me I can prove it. If you are riding with groups of people or have kids I think at least a hybrid is the minimum in protection. I love the way a pancake looks
but have a little girl and ride with other people who have kids. So I would always have at least a hybrid.

Flex pipe burn! Not mine!
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Re: Pancake v/s full cage

Postby FLA BOY » Sat Jan 19, 2013 11:24 pm

skinny99 wrote:Part of the decision making process involves where you will be riding. If you are going to be hunting and cutting trails through the woods and brush
then you may find that a full cage offers more protection for your prop. The angle of the cage also helps to push away any limbs or stick that you
may get hung up on, where the flat face of of a hybrid or pancake can catch.

The next thing to consider is who is around your boat and/or riding in it. Exhaust burns are very painful and lead to permanent scars. Trust me I can prove it. If you are riding with groups of people or have kids I think at least a hybrid is the minimum in protection. I love the way a pancake looks
but have a little girl and ride with other people who have kids. So I would always have at least a hybrid.

Flex pipe burn! Not mine!


Ouch! Thats exactly what I was talking about Skinny! I remember that pic...
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Pancake v/s full cage

Postby Comanche-pup » Sat Jan 19, 2013 11:33 pm

I guess mine is a hybrid by flex pipe is guarded and the headers and cylinders, top of motor is open, I remove two bolts and the wing swings open, never thought about the brush thing, I myself have twin 6 yr olds that are with me the majority! Thanks for the input, another thread made my curiosity rise.

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Re: Pancake v/s full cage

Postby cowboy » Sun Jan 20, 2013 5:39 am

I prefer a full set of guards.
Main reason is that I believe they will resist being pushed into the spinning prop from serious branch smacks much better than a whippy pancake. The flat face of a pancake magnifies these branch smacking forces, while the shape of a full guard set helps lift the branches that it is required to deflect.

I believe that a full set of guards is much more sturdy in a slow roll-over, and will crush into a spinning prop less should that happen, and allow you to have the opportunity to roll the boat back upright, and proceed on your way without a damaged prop. A flimsy pancake may not do this as well in my opinion.

A full set of guards possesses allot more structural strength, and will transfer extreme rudder forces into your hull with-out twisting into the screaming propeller much better than a floppy pancake.

I would rather have the extra advantages, rather than try to shave a couple of pounds off, but that's just me.

All the best...

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Pancake v/s full cage

Postby Comanche-pup » Sun Jan 20, 2013 8:29 am

My next will be full cage

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Re: Pancake v/s full cage

Postby bman » Sun Jan 20, 2013 9:09 am

I agree with Cowboy.

I think people are getting a little rediculous with these whimpy cages and huge open wire, people are forgetting what a prop can do to someone in an accident.

I understand everyone wants to shave weight and there are some restrictions of air flow with smaller wire spacing but with these pancake cages and 4x4 and even 5x5 wire spacing there is simply no protection left in a rollover or to stop someones hand or arm ending up in a prop, or someone getting burned like the above pic.

I will say on a race boat fine but on a ride boat that is around people especially KIDS, not acceptable.

If people keep getting more brazen regarding safety eventually the law is going to end up stepping in and taking care of that for everyone.

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Re: Pancake v/s full cage

Postby BluByU2 » Sun Jan 20, 2013 10:09 am

I currently have a pancake on my boat because I like being able to get to the engine for routine maintenance, and adjustments, but I think a full cage looks better. There is one precaution you have to remember with a full cage though, and that is do not climb inside one to work on the engine when you're in deep water. If the boat goes under while you are inside the cage, you will probably drown because you will be trapped. If memory serves me right, a Fish and Game officer died this way about 10 or 12 years ago in Kissimmee when the wake of a passing boat caused the corner of the transom to dip below the water line. The boat sank quickly, and because the bow traps air, and all the weight is in the rear because of the engine, it was nearly vertical which prevented him from escaping. Maybe some of you remember this.

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Re: Pancake v/s full cage

Postby Whitebear » Sun Jan 20, 2013 10:13 am

Sorry for the confusion and move guys. I saw the topic in Safety and moved it to Airboat Talk but when I actually read the thread, I see why it was in safety. I'll move it back to safety. :oops:
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Re: Pancake v/s full cage

Postby cowboy » Sun Jan 20, 2013 10:54 am

BluByU2 wrote:I currently have a pancake on my boat because I like being able to get to the engine for routine maintenance, and adjustments, but I think a full cage looks better. There is one precaution you have to remember with a full cage though, and that is do not climb inside one to work on the engine when you're in deep water. If the boat goes under while you are inside the cage, you will probably drown because you will be trapped. If memory serves me right, a Fish and Game officer died this way about 10 or 12 years ago in Kissimmee when the wake of a passing boat caused the corner of the transom to dip below the water line. The boat sank quickly, and because the bow traps air, and all the weight is in the rear because of the engine, it was nearly vertical which prevented him from escaping. Maybe some of you remember this.



Darn Right.
I remember being told of another similar death by my Dad and his friends when I was a kid.
It happened in the "M" canal in the Lake Park Marsh.
Guy had trouble, and had the nose of his boat slid up on the canal bank.
After he climbed into the cage to work on it, the boat suddenly slid down the bank, swamped the transom, and down she went.
Least that is what they figured had happened after they found him, cause they spotted the submerged boat by the running lights glowing under the water.

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Re: Pancake v/s full cage (Burns)

Postby kajunoutlaw » Sun Jan 20, 2013 5:53 pm

These are definitely some good points on pancake vs full. I was considering a pancake for a bit, but with some of the swampy areas we go into, a cypress tree limb would definitely just smack a pancake straight into the prop. After reading this, I am going to build a full cage. Besides, they look better IMO.
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Re: Pancake v/s full cage (Burns)

Postby john1edwards » Sun Jan 20, 2013 6:47 pm

My dad always built full cages, but he put doors that opened on the side so that you could work on the motor easy. just a thought :scratch:
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Re: Pancake v/s full cage (Burns)

Postby kajunoutlaw » Sun Jan 20, 2013 6:55 pm

john1edwards wrote:My dad always built full cages, but he put doors that opened on the side so that you could work on the motor easy. just a thought :scratch:


That is the plan John. Kind of like some gull wings I guess. Hinges and pins. It should work.
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Re: Pancake v/s full cage (Burns)

Postby john1edwards » Sun Jan 20, 2013 7:01 pm

here was a picture of dads boat. Kajun

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Re: Pancake v/s full cage (Burns)

Postby kajunoutlaw » Sun Jan 20, 2013 7:06 pm

john1edwards wrote:here was a picture of dads boat. Kajun

Image


It's kind of hard to see what's going on with the cage with that big hog blocking it, but I have a general idea of what I will do. My old boat had a full cage. Just engine access was from the back. Then we had to be careful walking around it, at the time I was only weighing about 125 lbs and as light as I was back then, I could almost sink it. Now being almost 200 lbs I would have sunk it quick.

I found out yesterday, that my old boat is at the bottom of the Atchafalaya River. From what I can understand, the guy that had it was just floating watching for his crew to push some deer his way. He came up on a log jam and floated the bow on top, the transom took on water and away she went. Now they can't find it. She is gone!
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Re: Pancake v/s full cage (Burns)

Postby IGETBENT » Tue Feb 12, 2013 9:08 am

If you get burned on my boat, you're ridin' wrong.
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Re: Pancake v/s full cage (Burns)

Postby PeaRiverOpossum » Tue Feb 12, 2013 9:27 am

IGETBENT wrote:If you get burned on my boat, you're ridin' wrong.

Pretty cool exhaust system. No wire on the cage? And what is the black pole between the seats?

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Re: Pancake v/s full cage (Burns)

Postby Bdriller » Tue Feb 12, 2013 11:28 am

Climbing in the cage to werk on motor sux and was fatal for one man a few years ago i think a perko switch is mandatory

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Re: Pancake v/s full cage (Burns)

Postby HuntingBigun » Tue Feb 12, 2013 11:34 am

Yep kiilled a FWC officer on Kissi a few years ago with the climb into the cage, the one thing I think folks miss about cages is what it is built from has a fair amount to do with strengh as the design. I run a modified cage that has the engine open, but angle face so limbs slap off prop quard but I say that my stainless modified is stronger than some full emt gages I have seen. But agree 100% on no beginner should have uncovered exh, and old bold guys we just roll the dice LOL
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Re: Pancake v/s full cage (Burns)

Postby junglecat » Wed Feb 20, 2013 11:53 pm

I personally like a hybrid cage , a little of the best of both.
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Re: Pancake v/s full cage (Burns)

Postby kajunoutlaw » Wed Feb 20, 2013 11:58 pm

I like your cage junglecat. I think I might steal some of it for mine. Looks like it would be a little easier to build also. EMT is a biatch to weld.
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Re: Pancake v/s full cage (Burns)

Postby Wild Bill » Thu Feb 21, 2013 1:51 am

Still pretty easy for somebody to fall into junglecats headers... IMO. I made my cage brace so it would be a little more difficult.

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Re: Pancake v/s full cage (Burns)

Postby skinny99 » Mon Feb 25, 2013 3:21 pm

Another pancake cage pic!
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Re: Pancake v/s full cage (Burns)

Postby junglecat » Mon Feb 25, 2013 3:30 pm

The sides come down at an angle and keep you off headers there is room between them and cage . My only fear is someone grabs header as handle to pull themselves up
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