Different Steering

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Canes350
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Different Steering

Post by Canes350 »

I have been looking for some pictures of the dogleg steering cant find any pictures in the forums. Would really appreciate some photos of a setup or two.When the three rods meet it has to be able to pivot and where the stick meets also has to pivot
I mean I have the jist of it I was really wondering if the three rods that connect to the rudder are solid or do they have to be flexible or able to move. And is there any measurements that would make it come together any better

Thanks Roper
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roberti53
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Re: Different Steering

Post by roberti53 »

Are you talking about this?

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Canes350
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Re: Different Steering

Post by Canes350 »

Yes that is the type of steering i was talking about just a little different but thatnks for the pictures. It is allways helpfull to have diff ideas in mind

Thanks Roper
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Reddfin
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Re: Different Steering

Post by Reddfin »

Here you go.
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Reddfin
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Re: Different Steering

Post by Reddfin »

just took some of my boat as well. Hope these help
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Canes350
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Re: Different Steering

Post by Canes350 »

Thanks redfin that was the kind I was thinking of. I am up a little late trying to throw it together so i can make it out for the open of bow :roll: Working 2 jobs to be able to have a boat is really getting old quick, the things you do for stuff you love to do..but thanks to both of you guys for the pics

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R L Williams
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Re: Different Steering

Post by R L Williams »

I noticed on Redfins deckover, there is 12 1/2 inches from rudder to pivot point on push rod. This great amount of leverage is what works so well on this type set up, double or big PB single rudder. This triangle mount on rudder gives leverage that you cant get with mounting control cable or rod to front of rudder. On dogleg style, or cable, your leverage is only from pivot point on rudder to attach point on front of rudder, usually only about 5 to 7 inches, less than half. :shock: No matter the length of hand lever or dog leg, your leverage is governed by final connection on rudder.

I have problems with my shoulders and need all the leverage I can get. I changed the pivot point on my rudders, that helped a lot.

Now, I need to find a teleflex cable with enough travel to use that type of triangle rudder mount. Not having a deckover, the prop and cable keep interfering with each other in my planning tho.

Any thoughts from anyone?
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Atlas
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Re: Different Steering

Post by Atlas »

R L Williams wrote: No matter the length of hand lever or dog leg, your leverage is governed by final connection on rudder.
Actually you can change the pivot point on your stick, or the length of the stick and that will change the leverage as well. If this is hard to understand, try grabbing your steering stick down close to the pivot point and steer, then move your hand back to the end and see the difference in leverage.

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Wild Bill
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Re: Different Steering

Post by Wild Bill »

Trying to figure mine out right this moment! :? What's the norm for full turn? 45 degrees? :?

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R L Williams
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Re: Different Steering

Post by R L Williams »

My bad Atlas, I meant overall leverage. :oops:, I meant to say with that style, (dogleg, cable) your travel is limited at rudder connection, compared to Redfins deckover. No matter the length of control lever, its pivot point, or where you grab it, you could put more power on rudders on Redfins boat. I guess it would be like comparing 6" end wrench to a 12" pull handle.
New thought, you could figure your ratio by measuring distance your hand travels on stick, then amount of movement at rudder attach point.
My rig is limited to 9" inches of travel with teleflex cable, top of stick moves 26", ratio would be about 3 to 1. I changed rudder pivot point from 5" to 7 1/2", that helped a lot, at 5", I could not hold rudder over at full power, stick would flex. On Redfins rig it would be closer to 2 to 1, (you could put more power to rudders), that triangle mount being 12 1/2" from rudder moves a lot at pushrod pivot point, I'm gonna guess about 16" or so. This would more than double what I have, (7 1/2") for leverage at rudder.

Hey Mr Redfin, please measure your stick for us. :lol:

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Wild Bill
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Re: Different Steering

Post by Wild Bill »

Ok here is my mock up so far. I would like to fine tune it if I could find out how many degrees of rudder travel you guys usually use and I have to run at an angle like that because of deck hatches but if all I need is 30 degrees each direction I can even lengthen the arm on the rudder for smother pull at full deflection. Right now it's got about 45 degrees and smooth up till about 40 degrees and then it starts pulling/pushing from less effective angles.
As far as I can see no mater how it is hooked up if all you have is 26" of arm movement to move the rudder the total number of degrees, the ratio would be the same. You will gain or lose ratio somwhere depending on lengths and distances however total rudder movement staying the same and arm travel staying the same the ratio stays the same. so unless you have ape arms with a 52" travel to move the rudder the same amount, you would double your ratio. There are benifits as to loads on fulcrum points and direction of pull. The larger lever has a larger radius and straighter pull like Redfins design.

Like R L Williams mentioned

I have problems with my shoulders and need all the leverage I can get. I changed the pivot point on my rudders, that helped a lot.

I think playing with rudder pivot point would have the greatest effect on rudder effort and the trick would be to get it to the point where they are balaced so you can't blow the rudders to a full turn position

So? How many degrees total travel or side to side is normal rudder travel? Thanks!

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R L Williams
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Re: Different Steering

Post by R L Williams »

Hi Wild Bill, my rudders went to about 45 degrees, moving pivot point changed them to close to 40 t0 41 degrees. This is adaquate, because now I can hold them full over under power when needed.
I've changed these twice, (a pain), drill out foam, install tube, weld, refoam. Shape of rudders, straight, or angled trailing edge has an effect on pivot point placement, I'm not an engineer, so I have do it the hard way. My last change at 7 1/2" would have been allmost perfect at 7 or 7 1/4, but its close enough.
Like Dan Phillips says, get it right and its allmost like power steering.
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Wild Bill
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Re: Different Steering

Post by Wild Bill »

Yeah if I was an engineer it would be done on paper first! :lol: Oh well, see if my guess works or not however pivot point would just be a matter of redrilling some holes in mine. Thanks for the angle information! Maby play some more tonight after work. Bill

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Re: Different Steering

Post by cntry141iq »

Well that looks good ... but for us southern drivers it is on the wrong side of the boat. I bought a boat here a while back from another area and it was on the wrong side and hooked up backwards ... damn near killed myself. But if you are used to it there well it won't matter none and you don't have to worry about anyone stealin it from here in florida. LOL
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Wild Bill
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Re: Different Steering

Post by Wild Bill »

That's why I put under the heading of "Different Steering". Actually Waterthunder and others have comented that heavy gear drive boats with big props should have the driver on the right hand side so I did and I don't really like the idea of the stick in the middle because of potential of passengers arm getting in the way. Yours are set up to push to turn right?

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