Aviation engines vs. V-8 Car/Marine engines

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Muddfish

Aviation engines vs. V-8 Car/Marine engines

Post by Muddfish » Thu Mar 30, 2006 6:49 pm

I'm new to airboats and know just enough to hurt myself and am looking into purchasing my first airboat.

The one question I can ask and get a different answer every time is: What engines are better in general for airboats, aviation or V-8 car/marine engines, weather it be big block or small????

I would love to hear as many experienced opinions on this as possible.......



Thanks, Muddfish

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blackpowderscout
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Post by blackpowderscout » Thu Mar 30, 2006 7:03 pm

Holy Smokes, I see something brewing....YOU'VE JUST OPENED A Image

I have to ruffle some feathers here....aircraft is the way to go cause the chicks dig em!!!

Seriously though?? It all depends on what you want to do. Do you want to run a tour operation??? Better stay away from the 470's and 540's. Do you want a 10' hull??? Better not get a 500 caddy. No one type of motor is always better 100% of the time for every application across the board.

Good question though, I can't wait to see these responses...it was getting boring in here lately.

Adam
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Post by c chardt » Thu Mar 30, 2006 7:03 pm

I plead the fifth

don't want any part of this one
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If your looking for Different we build different all boats custom built any way you want.
CNC metal plasma cutting / parts / seats / trailers / hulls / Aluminum work anything you need, polymer

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Post by Skeeter » Thu Mar 30, 2006 7:08 pm

Im with CC I plead the fifth.We all seem to be getting along.

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aviation vs. car motor

Post by basketcase0302 » Thu Mar 30, 2006 7:13 pm

Muddfish,

Welcome to Southern Airboat. You'll always find an answer here, (might not like it though) :lol:

LikeBPS stated above, big can of worms. I've got a car motor boat. After last week when the gasket between the water pump and the backing plate blew out...Lost all the coolant.

I was wishing I had an aircraft engine :roll:

Basketcase

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Post by cntry141iq » Thu Mar 30, 2006 7:18 pm

ALLRIGHT FINALLY again we are alive LOL. Here goes another 50 bucks sure as you know what. I tried to start this over in another thread but I guess it got sorta soft shoed.

heres what we need to know here.

1.) how much does each engine type weigh.

2.) whats the reasonable normal horsepower/ torque to be expected from each type/size engine.

3.) what size hulls are we talkin about runnin them on.

4.) how much does each normally cost to buy

5.) how much to maintain

6.) how long can each type be expected to go between major overhauls.

7.) how available are the parts for each type.

and just for the fun of it. ...

8.) what are the real hp/tq numbers folks have gotten from the types of motors with any kind of reliability.

Thunder has a lot of this info and he loves to convert a/c guys to chevy engines so THUNDER let r rip buddy.

Yahoo gotta love this country folks ONLY IN AMERICA.
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Post by barhopper » Thu Mar 30, 2006 7:21 pm

Car motor with reduction drive.

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Post by Whitebear » Thu Mar 30, 2006 7:25 pm

Well you won't hear much different around here. I have owned, built and run more car engines than aircraft but my first choice is still a strong 4 cylinder aircraft on a light boat.

I guess to be truely accurate is to say the best eninge is the one on YOUR airboat.

Different engines do different things. Automotive engines are heavy, then add a redrive and your way out there weight wise. If you just DD it then your still heavy just with with less performance. Aircraft engines are load sensitive since they generally don't develope the same HP as the hot rod Auto engines. However they are lighter, simpler, smaller and an old proven technology just like the aging original Chevy Small block V8s

On the Mini end is a whole range of boats and motors that really are super light weight.

Your performance from any of them is going to be related to all-up HP per POUND and hull shape.

My choice for my next boat is an O-360 on a light Palm Beach hull but I may end up with some BB monster and a redrive on a big hull. You can learn to run anything.

Safety should be a primary concern just as important as WHAT type of boat/engine you get. Learn from the really experienced, pay attention, practice, don't get in a hurry. You won't learn it all at once or even in a year, or hahahah even in a lifetime.

It comes slow in little steps. Sometimes 3 steps forward and 2 backward. It's one of the most fun things you can do. Always remember to put your family ahead of your boat though. It can be an expensive sport.

Welcome to the SA forum, glad to see new folks speak up. You will find all the help you can imagine on any airboat topic you can imagine here. Were all willing to share and show and discuss.

Let me show my lack of shame at this time by pointing to the site support link in blue just under your name when you post. The place is probably the best resource on the internet and it doesn't run for free. Contribute anything you can, and if you are unable thats fine as well your always welcome here.

Scotty
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Post by duckluv26 » Thu Mar 30, 2006 7:26 pm

muddfish, listen to me on this one. i own a 200 and a 260 lycoming. they both run great and i love having them. however, when something breaks i have no clue how to fix it. i end up sending them to "aircraft mechanics" in san antonio or dallas. all the parts are hard to find and expensive. why do i run them? because they were handed down to me from my late dad. if i were to buy a new rig, it would be with a car engine. i've seen guys pretty much rebuild engines in the marsh. parts are easy to find and inexpensive. buy what you want, but i'm telling the truth!!!!!

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Post by cntry141iq » Thu Mar 30, 2006 7:36 pm

I am not bragging here so don't anyone hit me upside the head. I am only giving this info out because I am trying to help as much as I can. What I do is not for everyone and vice versa. I have actual numbers and can prove anything I say here and more.

I have a small block chevy 383 stroker which is not a normal stroker. I have been very happy with what it will do. I run a gear drive actually I am trying a lot of gear drives right now and a lot of props right now. So there is no sense in me trying to go there because I have been sworn to secrecy by the other folks involved in this project I am working on.

I know I have 456 hp and 456 tq I know I can run props usually reserved for big blocks up to and including most 502 engines. I know I can make more thrust than I am comfortable with as it relates to my current engine stand and have backed some of the thrust outta the one prop.

I will tell you it is like thunder says ... it is your gear box that makes the most difference as to force. Some props are quieter than others almost all of them at one point or another make the same thrust and I mean within approx 50 lbs of each other when comparing equal props of different manufacturers. You have to have the right prop the right box and some idea of where your engine is healthy at. the last one is not a critical but common sense will tell you there is a point that must be reached to be effective and going past that point too far will result in no gain just strain on engine components.

I probably will never have an a/c boat again except maybe for test purposes. I like being able to get parts when I need them not when I can find them. I like running 93 octane and not having to worry about fuel availability. I like being able to get more and more out of my engine and props at my discretion and not being limited in that area.

but that is just me
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Post by Whitebear » Thu Mar 30, 2006 7:39 pm

A decent resource for aircraft parts is the Airboat Trader at:

http://www.airboattrader.com/

Ther are enough aircraft folks here in Florida you can find nearly any part you can dream up. Lots of folks have a personal stash of parts and are willing to part with some parts on a sale or replacement basis in an emergency.

Remember the VW is an aircraft engine and how simple and easy it is to work on.

I agree that availability of parts is worth looking into, just dont want you to think you can't find them when ya need them.

I also agree auto parts stores are more closer, easier, in some cases cheeper, and open on Sundays. But that not the WHOLE CAN OF WORMS.

Scotty

Talk about a can of worms LOL
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big feather

Post by big feather » Thu Mar 30, 2006 7:48 pm

What's the subject ........ :?

BF

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Dakota
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Post by Dakota » Thu Mar 30, 2006 7:49 pm

Car motor, aircraft. They both suck!!! :lol:

(I am a trouble maker, just like Canefan said)

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Post by wade » Thu Mar 30, 2006 7:55 pm

Here we go again :D This would have made a good subject on the chat page :shock: :shock: I like both myself, but I can work on the car motors a little.

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Post by Whitebear » Thu Mar 30, 2006 8:04 pm

This is a great subject.

If you can work on a car motor you certainly can work on an aircraft engine.

In your case Wade its just that you havent worked on aircraft engines, not that you cant. Believe me.

Automotive engines are WAY more complex than aircraft engines. By automotive engine standards a brand spanking new aircraft engine is wore slap-a** out when its first built.

I'm not dissing Auto engines I'm just trying to kinda point out thigns to the New Guy. Were all used to dealing with what were used to dealing with. And most of us can do things we dont even realize we can do.

If a persom thats new can't work on either to begin with, they will find it easier to work on aircraft engines than auto engines. Theres simply less to them and they are lighter weight to deal with.

Now I'm going to go hide and watch some of this before somebody throws something at me.

Scotty
"The Constitution is not so the government can restrain the people, it is so the people can restrain the government." Patrick Henry
The government cannot give anything --
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Post by blackpowderscout » Thu Mar 30, 2006 8:09 pm

Cntry is accurate and wise...of course at his age he should be wise..LOL!!!

You can MAKE car motors produce some awesome numbers and do some awesome things but as he said you need to have some sort of gear reduction ($$) and in order to really make them wake up you'll probably want to beef up the innerds ($$$). Plus there is all that other stuff just keep it cool and running.

You can take a stock aircfraft engine and match it with the right hull and prop for the motor and that's all you need, no reduction units, no water coolers, etc. A stock 0540 on a 13ft hull will perform much better than a stock 350sbc on the same hull.

But, then you have the proffessionally built car motor such as one of Thunders. Ungodly amounts of power in a setup that is pretty close weight wise to a 6 cyl aircraft. SWEET!!! But again ($$$$).

If you take care and ensure you perform your preventive maintenance an aircraft engine will last for years...most are pretty darn old anyhow. My 0470 angle valve is stamped 1968 I think.

I think instead of asking what motor is best overall, ask what motor is best for YOUR application. Do you want a 13 ft or smaller boat to hunt and run way back on the hill with??? Unless you can afford to get a motor like Thunder's built you'd be best getting an aircraft engine. Do you want a 15ft or larger boat to carry a bunch of stuff and people with?? Get a strong car motor and all the stuff to make it work.

I agree that you can easily make a car motor outperform an aircraft engine but it's not really apples to apples because of all the upgrades that are needed. I don't carry a bunch of people and have a 13ft hull so until I can afford to have a Thunder motor built, it's gonna be aircraft for me.

And with fuel...many aircraft engines are designed to run high test punp so you don't have to have avgas for them to run fine.

I'm glad we finnally have some more action!!!! Anybody want to talk about flags????LOL!!! LOL!!!

Adam

Adam
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Muddfish

WOW!

Post by Muddfish » Thu Mar 30, 2006 8:20 pm

Wow! I didn't expect such a good response...

I like both type engines also and blackpowerscout is hard to argue with on his theory of aircraft is the way to go because the chicks dig'em" hey that pretty much does it for me right there.

but I'm still interested in car engines because of my own ability to work it, not to mention my brother is a ASE master tech that has already built some very strong running small blocks.

But at the same time how hard can these aircraft engines be to work on, looks like a big BMW motorcycle engine or as someone else said a VW engine and I believe just there nature is ultra reliable.

But he's like me and new to airboats..... I am looking for a medium size boat, I like the 14 ft gilileo hauls I have seen. I would like it to haul hunting and camping gear and still run dry ground and have speed and power for the load. I've seen a boat like this with a lyc. 0540 260hp on it with a power shift prop and the owner says it will run 70mph and haul a heavy load on dry ground.....

does this sound about right?

Nice to meet everyone here and thanks for the replies, Gary

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Post by Whitebear » Thu Mar 30, 2006 8:24 pm

That boat should do fine. The 540s come in several flavors but in general 260 HP and 300 HP. Your 14 foot hull is at the upper limit but should do what you want and describe. A small block chevy with a redrive will as well so for your application you can go either way. Your on the cusp so you have options.

Scotty
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FELBER632

Post by FELBER632 » Thu Mar 30, 2006 8:26 pm

My only answer would be...It depends on your needs and the technology avaialable to you. If you get a half-assed car motor with the wrong combo, you won't be happy, and likewise for the aircraft. Honestly in my opinion go with the suggestion that comes from the man building your boat/offering you the most help. Just my $.02

Felber

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Whitebear
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Post by Whitebear » Thu Mar 30, 2006 8:33 pm

Felber makes sense

Just remember..........

YOU CAN'T DO VSAT THINGS IN A HALF VAST WAY !

Scotty
"The Constitution is not so the government can restrain the people, it is so the people can restrain the government." Patrick Henry
The government cannot give anything --
that they have not first taken from someone else.

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Post by JL242 » Thu Mar 30, 2006 9:00 pm

First of all.......... you don't get chicks with a motor, you get them with lotsa $$$$$$, some personality, some game, and last but not least looks. If you ain't got any looks $$$$$ will ALWAYS suffice. Most women don't know the difference between Copenhagen and Skoal, they just think its dip..... the only way there gonna know the difference in a motor is if you tell em. What else do you wanna do besides run dry ground?? Are you gonna haul more than 2 people including yourself?? What kind of water are you planning on running in?? Deep, shallow or both?? After you answer all of these questions bring your wallet. Aircraft and car motors are both expensive. Fiberglass can be heavy. Aluminim has its ups and downs. If you want a general ride boat for shallow water you can't beat an 0360 on a 10 to 12 ft hull. They are great motors and get real good fuel economy. Some 0360's have been known to run dry with 3+ people on them. On the other hand if you have lotsa friends who always want to ride maybe you should consider a larger hull with a V8. It all goes back to how deep your pockets are. If I was in your shoes I would buy a used boat of Airboattrader.com and try it for a while. Look around @ other peoples boats, hit an Airboat show or two and get some ideas of what you like. Start small, end up big. I will close by adding this......... I have a friend who owns an aircraft junkyard who offered me an 0540 rebuilt by his aircraft mechanic for a price that was $800 more than what I paid for one of Thunders high HP LS1 motors. Now without discussing prices, the price on that rebuilt 0540 was a friend price and it was less that what Jr gets, but close. So like I said above, bring your wallet!! Good luck!!

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Post by Airboatcapt2 » Thu Mar 30, 2006 9:20 pm

99% of all the new boats we build are Automotive with a Belt Drive.
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Post by tf » Thu Mar 30, 2006 9:21 pm

I am in the same 'boat' (scuse the pun) as muddfish.

How reliable/dependable are the aircraft engines? I heard to get an a/c engine overhauled costs $4K - $6K. It makes me wonder how long they last.

Thanks,
tom

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Post by Whitebear » Thu Mar 30, 2006 9:24 pm

They are ultrareliable and very long lived. Many from the first half of the last century are still running in the plane they were originally sold in.

If you do your own work they are bit more expencive, if you take them to a shopp of course you pay labor and overhead and such.

As everybody has pointed out, this aint no nickel and dime sport no matter how you go.

Scotty
Last edited by Whitebear on Thu Mar 30, 2006 9:29 pm, edited 2 times in total.
"The Constitution is not so the government can restrain the people, it is so the people can restrain the government." Patrick Henry
The government cannot give anything --
that they have not first taken from someone else.

big feather

Post by big feather » Thu Mar 30, 2006 9:27 pm

Aw Geez, Muddfish ...... this is worse than Democrat vs. Republican or Baptist vs. Presbyterian. This is the worst possible mess you coulda started :roll: .

This thread will be 14 pages long by the time it settles down. :? .

BF

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