220 gpu

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mountain man
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220 gpu

Postby mountain man » Mon Apr 24, 2006 7:08 pm

ROOKIE QUESTION

the water seperator should be drained how often?
will it drain dry or do I have to wait until the gas starts coming out?
thanks

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Postby Capt Jeff » Mon Apr 24, 2006 10:57 pm

I drain it before each trip.
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Duece
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220 gpu

Postby Duece » Tue Apr 25, 2006 8:33 am

While we're on the subject, what are the gitsu cylinders I see everyone running on these things nowadays? Also did ya'll see the one in Airboat World w/the gearbox! Yikes, those 220 guys are getting very clever.

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Postby dblj006 » Tue Apr 25, 2006 10:38 am

That's a good question...and how much $$$. Are there
different piston combos? I've heard they can stroke
them also?

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Postby mountain man » Tue Apr 25, 2006 3:11 pm

you can get a better compression ratio with a standard 220 then you can get with a 540!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

just have to go with standard pop-up pistons and 2nd mag.

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Postby frank w. » Tue Apr 25, 2006 4:57 pm

but the 540s put out more rpms and less likely to come apart with that sweat gearbox anybody heard anymore on the gearbox price for 220

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Postby mountain man » Tue Apr 25, 2006 7:28 pm

that gearbox sounds sweet

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Postby cowboy » Wed Apr 26, 2006 5:58 am

Jump in here and correct me if I'm wrong Larry. You know more about aircraft engines than I do.

Geared, Turbo Supercharged, Injected, Opposed is what GTSIO stands for.
Most folk just call them "gitsu cylinders"

Those cylinders are off of Continental's top of the line aircraft engines.

The boat in the article is fairly low compression, and runs on pump gas. Thats what I would want. He claimed a hp output of 337, I'm not sure if that was while on the n.o.s. bottle or not.

I'm not sure, but I believe the 220 case will need bored out to accept the larger bore cylinders. I have been told that the conversion could be had for $2,500 including parts.

As far as rpm range, Abner stated that his is propped / geared for 3,400 max. Of course he has access to a crank balancer, and I'm sure all his rotating assemblies are balanced out for smoothness. It's also an attractive benifit that the gearbox take the prop thrust loading off of the gpu crank, that it was never really intended to deal with.

I have been told that the complete gpu geardrive set up will cost $3,800 bucks.
That would include the starting and charging accessories, adaptor, and the new refined rotator gearbox.

You've got to figure in a 2.5 to 3k prop also.

You could bolt one behind a standard issue $1,700 single mag 220 engine, and have $8 to $10 k 300 h.p. direct drive performance engine. "potentially"

Put one behind a nasty six cylinder aircraft engine, and it would be an animal. That's what the ride boat in the article really represents. The article and photo's don't really do it justice. It is an absolute animal of a boat.

That geared gpu 8 cyl rig that J.C.Stanley has is gonna be one serious performer when he get's it propped out right, but his boat is a heavier type than the article rig.

I'd like to see a "gitsu" 90 gpu with a box on it. I bet that would be a sweet little set up. It would probably run like a 230 to 260 horse six cylinder if it were done right.



On the water separator, I'd just drain it till you get pure gas, and no more water.

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Postby Skeeter » Wed Apr 26, 2006 7:08 am

Ive got a 220 converstion thats had all the tricks done to it. I got more the 2500 in it but,I was looking for hp.I have to run av gas,but that was my choice.I can honestly say I have never had a problem staying with any 540 boat around.Diffenetly would be a good option for you to think about for the money.

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Postby cntry141iq » Wed Apr 26, 2006 8:29 am

Cowboy said:
You could bolt one behind a standard issue $1,700 single mag 220 engine, and have $8 to $10 k 300 h.p. direct drive performance engine. "potentially"

If you do that it wouldn't be a direct drive engine anymore it would be a gear driven aircooled engine. How much torque does one of those engines make in the DD format? what gear are you gonna use as a multiplier. Just a few thoughts on the subject.
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Postby dblj006 » Wed Apr 26, 2006 10:37 am

Maybe Cowboy's comparison is how to get the equivilent
performance from a low hp 220gpu.
It seems there would be alot of advantages.
All aircraft six cylinders range from 6,000 to 10,000
it seems with standard hp from 260 to 300hp.
With the tech that the gearbox adds makes
the 220gpu fuel effecient,quiet(which is important)
and turn a prop that can perform. The price ranges
to build a 220gpu seem to be relatively cheap
compared to their aircraft brothers.
One down side might be weight. The gpu's are heavy
aren't they?
But this seems to be pretty good tech to me.

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Postby cowboy » Wed Apr 26, 2006 12:56 pm

10-4 There Country,
I was using that as a cost comparision for using a cheap gpu, and then obtaining big direct drive performance trough the use of a gearbox.

Like I tried to say elsewhere, For me, it is the only rational way of looking at geardriving aircooled engines, from a dollar standpoint.

But again, many won't care. They are out there right now, cutting up their rigging, and reconfiguring for geardrives. Not all are gpu's.

Airboating buying decisions are not always made on a rational basis.

The ratio they are employing for now is 1.53. If I remember correctly, the factory geared A/C engines are at 1.55. Those boxes still provide a Left Hand Rotation, and that severely limits the selection of props. IMO.

The Rotator they use lets them select from the whole range of RHR props that have been developed for the automotive engines, so going out and finding a factory geared A/C motor is not a good option for that reason alone.
JMO.

I have not researched the torque, but I have been told that a big six cylinder aircraft will put out some impressive numbers in that dept.
The torque numbers I have been quoted have veried widely, but none were not impressive.

Possibly better torque numbers per hp than allot of the automotive engines can offer. Not all or any, but allot of auto engines. That is an opinion, not facts that I have researched.
I just don't think you can compare the Auto vs A/C performance potential based on HP numbers alone.

I have also not researched this, but have been told that a six cyl gpu is actually lighter than a 520 a/c engine.

Many gpu owners ditch the heavy cast sump, and install a custom aluminum pan to save allot of weight right there.

Best part of it all is that time will tell, and I personally don't think that it will take long to find out. A/C gearing won't be going through the extended rpm enabling phase that auto engines did. People are gonna find out how to capatalize on multiplying the torque pretty quick, just like the hyper performance autoboat guys are doing right now.

By the time I decide to try and gear an aircooled engine, all the set-up's should be pretty well maximized, for different aircooled powerplants.

I could be wrong about all of the above.... but I don't believe that I am. JMO

If I had the money, I'd be putting it where my mouth is. I've seen it in action, and multiplying you torque works. Waterthunder was right about that. It don't matter what kinda boat you run, it works.
Last edited by cowboy on Wed Apr 26, 2006 1:32 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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Postby Waterthunder » Wed Apr 26, 2006 1:21 pm

I have weighed a ton of airboat motors and the 220GPU was by far the heaviest. It was so heavy that most of the people there claimed my quarterly calibrated scale was incorrect but when a 182 pound buddy of mine stood on the scale with the motor it added his exact weight. This was another engine weight bet that I won a hundred dollars over. A 220GPU with a gearbox will weigh well over a 100 pounds more then a SBC with a gearbox. As for the 520's most of the ones I have weighed are between 510 to 525 pounds this is much lighter then a 220GPU. I must state all my weights are with starter, alternator, headers, carb or injection, flywheel, prop adaptor, belts, oil, ignition and all brackets. Because the only fair way to weigh these motors is in the configuration they are in when on a airboat. With car motors I also weigh the radiator, hoses and estimate the weight of the water required for the cooling system.
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Postby cowboy » Wed Apr 26, 2006 1:47 pm

Cool!
If gpu's are bar far the heaviest, then perhaps that's one reason why they are by far the cheapest aircooled powerplant available.

Oh well.

Guess there just ain't nothing perfect in this world.

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Postby Waterthunder » Wed Apr 26, 2006 2:07 pm

I'm sure that's part of it and the fact the huge bureaucracy of the FAA is not involved with GPU's because none of the GPU parts have to be air worthy or be certified by the Federal Aviation Administration. So their way cheaper to manufacture and repair then an aircraft engine.
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Postby cowboy » Wed Apr 26, 2006 3:25 pm

10-4 there Thunder.
I guess that's why A/C engine technology has been stagnated for half a century or longer.

It would cost big big bucks to develop, test, certify, and provide liabilty lawers for any groundbreaking reciprocating technologies.

Bounce that off of the reletively low units to be sold per year, and it don't take long to decide to just keep doing it with what you have. There's no real pay-off. Big gamble.

I guess that's why all the new things for aviation power are mostly related to experimental aircraft.
Reciprocating engines anyway. Some of it then goes out for an attempt at FAA certification.

Factor in lag time for trickle down to airboats..... you can expect things to stay pretty much the same for a looong time.

Here's one interesting example:

http://www.emagair.com/default.asp

I don't believe these are certified, but could be great on an airboat.

Chevy's thinking on a new engine design? no problem. They know darn well their gonna sell them and get their money back! probably in spades.

The gpu was just a run of the mill industrial engine, so they did'nt have to spend much to develop it. They were built to last, but not with a propeller pushing on the crank. They still deal with that for a long time.

I find the aircooled geardrive concept as a potentially new and effective breakthrough for aircooled airboating power. It all comes from current airboating applications, and making the most use of what you have available. Just simple common sense, and an understanding of what some new component combinations can/might do. Time will tell.

Airboating.....
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Postby mountain man » Wed Apr 26, 2006 4:01 pm

cowboy

I have one of those e-mag's on my 220 gpu
it is great you can retard the timing during idle down for easier starts and shout downs neverhad any problems with it.

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Postby cntry141iq » Wed Apr 26, 2006 4:09 pm

Well rotator gear boxes on an aircraft/gpu engine are no doubt a break through, I am just not sure what they broke though. LOL oh well, The gear box adapter/conversion certainly opens a lot of doors for the a/c guys, the first of which is that they are no longer running what most people however unfounded it may be, consider to be the true airboat motor.

Now if they are no longer "true" then why not get more bang for the buck and lose some weight doing it as in going with a LS1, after all your cutting up your engine stand and riggin already right. A little ole radiator aint gonna hurt nothin at that point.

I know airboating is not rational lordy I know that for sure. I just can't understand spendin time and money to get less when more is available cheaper and lighter .. but thats just me.
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Postby cowboy » Wed Apr 26, 2006 4:39 pm

Yeah, Message received and understood there Country.
I can't figure out why anyone would buy a Ford pick up instead of a Chevy.
Guess there ain't just no explaining it.

Heck, I'd love to have Waterthunders rig, but only if / after I had a killer geared A/C engine.

Heck I've got a couple of A/C powered boats around, so I would'n t be upgrading from scratch. Perhaps others are thinking the same. I don't know.

Guess I just plain aint a rational thinker. I'm all shot out. Oh well.

Yeah Mountain man, tell us more about that e-mag.

What sort of gap are you running?

Did you have a regaular mag before you got that one?

See improvments with it?

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Postby cntry141iq » Wed Apr 26, 2006 5:25 pm

Cowboy least we agree on trucks ... sorta ... gas or diesel ? only diesel for me right now anyways may soon be hydrogen or somethin else LOL
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Postby mountain man » Wed Apr 26, 2006 7:19 pm

cowboy

to tell you the truth i bought the boat with the e-mag on the motor. I have been offered pink slips for pink slips at cypress for my boat just because of that e-mag this guy followed me from the hill to the boat ramp just to see my mag.

the gap in my plugs are .32 i don't know what the standard is i am new in the aircraft motors. my buddy builds aircraft engines and he is in love with it. the proformance is wounderful.

I recently lost a jug and the plug was socked and the plug was still firing.
I don't know any details on it other than it works

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Postby cowboy » Thu Apr 27, 2006 6:25 am

I dont blame your friend for coveting that electronic mag Mountain Man.

Running a 32 gap is nice! Huge advantage.
I run a 25 gap, and most gpu's run at about .018 for the best idle.

A/C mags work, and they are ok when they are right, but an A/C magneto will never be able to handle those wide gaps at low or idle speed rpm's. Not consistently.

One of these days, when I'm rich.... I'm gonna go battery ignition on the aircraft engines we have around here.

Speaking of rich........ Hee-hee-
I here ya on those trucks Country.

I got both around here. My gas burner is an 85 heavy chevy, and I've been driving it for over 20 years.
Are you noticing a behavioral pattern! I've lost track of how many miles are on it, but I know it's 400k+
I also have an 02 Duramax. It's been a really good tuck for me so far, but I hardly ever get to drive it. Mama thinks its her truck, and #2 cowboy backs her up on that point. Guess you can't win'em all.

Canefan's got a Dodge / Cummins.

I do have a serious desire to buy a liquid cooled engine right now, and I don't think it's gonna go away.

It will run on waste motor oil, and waste vegetable oil. and a variety of regular petro based fuels.

These engines are'nt for everyone, but it's just the sort of thing many airboater types could handle. It's not for your typical consumer goods purchaser, or people who can't handle being responsible for their own actions.

Specifically during hurricane season, these could come in real handy for extended runs, and cutting the high cost of living in the storm aftermath.

Check it out.

Lister type, cold start, slow speed diesels.

http://www.utterpower.com/engines.htm

I'll be able to support 15kw electrical loads to my house (if it ever got that high), and not have to spend big $ per Kwhr. And do it when the chips are down.

Again, thats what I wan't. They ain't for everyone. They ain't massed produced for us, because they would be a liability lawers worst nightmare!

I'd bet if you had one, it would be putting out double the hp, @ half the db.
That ain't a wise crack'in jab at you Country. just my opinion.

Heck, if I had your money dude, I have two of them right now! Hee-Hee...

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Postby cntry141iq » Thu Apr 27, 2006 9:10 am

Cowboy if I only had the money folks think I have LOL I need to get rid of some of the bills I got. Want some of em I got a special deal for you on quantity packages. LOL be good
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