I DONT WANT TO START A WAR -------

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I DONT WANT TO START A WAR -------

Post by D-BREWSTER » Sat Aug 05, 2006 6:45 pm

IM JUST ASKING THIS QUESTION BECAUSE I DONT HAVE ANY EXPERINCE WITH CAR MOTOR BOATS, IVE BUILT 6 AIRCRAFT BOATS AND WORKING ON A 7TH,, BUT MY QUESTION IS THIS HOW DO THEY RUN THE DRY FOR A LONG LENGTH OF TIME HUNTING ? THE REASON I ASK IS I SEE ALOT OF POST ON HERE WERE PEOPLE ARE TALKING ABOUT RUNNING SHORT STRIPS OF DRY GROUND OR A SHORT CLIMB UP A DIKE AS A REAL TEST OF HOW THERE BOATS RUN DRY...PLEASE NO ONE TAKE THIS THE WRONG WAY OR PERSONAL..I AM JUST WONDERING HOW THE CARMOTOR BOATS DO ON A LONG DAY OF DOG HUNTIN THE DRY ? BECAUSE THE WAY WE HUNT OUR BOATS MOST TIMES OF THE YEAR AT MICCO , OR SOUTH OF 60 ,GARDNERS AND AROUND LAKE CYPRESS AND A FEW YEARS BACK THE GLADES AND BROWNS FARM , ONCE YOU LEAVE THE RIVER IN LATE WINTER OR SUMMER WE DONT SEE NO WATER TILL WE COME BACK TO THE RIVER OR HIT A SMALL SLEW IN THE WOODS.. WE RUN OUR BOATS HARD DOG HUNTIN RUNNIN DRY FOR HOURS AND MILES AT A TIME I AM JUST WONDERING IF THE CARMOTORS DO THE SAME ?? LIKE I SAID IM ONLY ASKING BECAUSE I HAVE NEVER REALLY BEEN AROUND CARMOTOR BOATS HUNTIN...
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Post by BATTLE READY » Sat Aug 05, 2006 7:20 pm

I am not trying to be a wise guy but I am just wondering if it is that dry out there why dont you guys use 4 wheelers to hunt instead of airboats ?

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Post by duckluv26 » Sat Aug 05, 2006 7:21 pm

i also run an A/C engine but my friend owns 5 car engines. he does surveying and seismic runs. he runs for miles in his car motors loaded down with 4 or 5 guys sometimes. no problem at all. its all about power to weight ratio with the right prop. easily said, a good car engine boat will carry more weight under a lower strain than an a/c boat. you can't hardly expect a 290 hp lycoming to keep up with a 502 hp chevy, given they are mounted on appropriate sized hulls..... thats about 73% more power, more prop and less than 73% difference in weight. thats probably why 99% of the work boats are powered by chevy....

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Post by PredatorI0540 » Sat Aug 05, 2006 7:33 pm

i will say this. In about 2-3 weeks, Bobby Jones Jr. will have his new 0540 done, and ready to go. This man knows how to run a boat, and he wants to see a car-motor run through gardners marsh and stay beside him the whole way through. My opion is a car motor wont be able to run the terrian he runs, but thats just my opinon, and i know some people on here are gonna take that the wrong way, but i just dont think a car-motor can keep up running the hard woods.
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Post by D-BREWSTER » Sat Aug 05, 2006 7:51 pm

Rdm20470 NOT BEING A WISE GUY EITHER BUT YOU WOULD HAVE TO HAVE ONE HELL OF A 4 WHEELER TO CROSS THE KISSIMMEE RIVER FROM THE BOAT RAMP TO THE EAST SIDE OF THE RIVER, AND I THINK THE GAME WARDEN WOULD LOVE TO HAVE A LONG TALK WITH YA WHEN YOU GOT OVER THERE, OR ANY OF THOSE OTHER SPOTS FOR THAT MATTER..IF 4 WHEELERS WERE ALLOWED ON THE RIVER OR LAKES IT WOULD RUIN IT FOR AIRBOATERS ANYWAY THAT'S THE LAST THING WE NEED TO SEE IS A COUPLE 100 4 WHEELERS RUINING OUR GREAT HUNTING SPOTS, I WAS JUST DOWN AT ROTTENBERGER AND 3A NORTH A MONTH AGO AND IT ABOUT MADE ME SICK TO SEE ALL THE PEOPLE WITH SPORT 4 WHEELERS AND DIRT BIKES FLYING UP AND DOWN THE DIKES PISSIN OFF THE GFC RUINING IT FOR THE REST OF US ..RDM20470 I DONT KNOW HOW LONG YOUVE BEEN AIRBOATING OR IF YOU EVEN HUNT AT ALL , BUT DOG HUNTING FROM AIRBOATS AND RUNNING DRY ON HUNTS IS A WAY OF LIFE AND TRADITION FOR ALOT OF PEOPLE AND I HOPE TO GOD WE CAN DO IT FOR MANY MOON'S TO COME, THAT'S WHY THE HUNTING IS SO GOOD IN THOSE PLACES BECAUSE THERE HARD TO GET TO AND NOT EVERYONE CAN EVEN GET TO THEM WITHOUT A GOOD DRY RUNNIN BOAT...IM JUST ASKING A SIMPLE QUESTION IF THE CARMOTOR BOATS ALSO HUNT HARD LIKE THAT , JUST WONDERING HOW THEY HELD UP IN THOSE CONDITIONS BEING WATER COOLED AND ALL..LIKE I SAID NOT TRYING TO TURN THIS INTO ANOTHER AIRCRAFT/CARMOTOR ARGUEMENT..
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Post by BATTLE READY » Sat Aug 05, 2006 8:01 pm

I figured it was something like that. I am not hard core into hunting like it sounds like you are. I mainly ride to camp, fish, frog and screw around. Im an aircraft guy also, have not had the pleasure of riding up there but look forward to it one day. I too am glad 4 wheelers cannot get to the places you hunt. I am all for airboat only areas. I am anxiously awaiting an answer from the car motor guys.

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Post by fatboy0054 » Sat Aug 05, 2006 8:06 pm

CLAYTON -YOU YALL WERE DOING GOOD! UNTIL ,---- DONT THINK THEY CAN DO THE SAME !--- ITS ALL ABOUT APPLICATION ! THIS SHOULD BRING THE FROGS OUT OF THE CAT TAILS ! :D :D
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Post by D-BREWSTER » Sat Aug 05, 2006 8:23 pm

WELL RDM MAYBE WILL GET TO RUN TOGETHER ONE DAY AND CHASE A HOG OR 2...BROTHER

AND DUCKLUV DONT GET ME WRONG IM A CONTINENTAL AIRCRAFT MAN ON ALL MY BOATS BUT WHEN IT COMES TO MY VECHICLES IM CHEVY THRU AND TRUE BROTHER, I GREW UP AT TRACK , MY OLDMAN BUILT MID-YEAR VETTES BY DAY 64 TO 67 STINGRAYS AND RACED AT NIGHT, HE HAD A RELIABLE 9;50 RUNNIN 396 FULL ROLLER MOTOR WITH A 2 SPEED POWER GLIDE IN A 27 ALTER, THEN HE BUILT A 7 SEC. PRO-MOD WITH A CUSTOM 540 ALUM BLOCK PONTIAC HEADS WITH 2 1250 DOMINATERS SITTIN ON TOP A CUSTOM HIGH RISE WITH 3 STAGES OF JUICE...HE WAS BUILDING HIS DREAM RAIL IN 2003 WHEN HE PASSED AWAY... US KIDS RAN THE SWAMPS AND DAD LIVED FOR THE TRACK..BUT WE WERE RAISED RIGHT AND I LEARNED FROM A YOUNG AGE IF YOU WANT TO RUN FAST RUN CHEVY!!!!!!!

BUT WHEN IT COMES TO AIRBOATS CONTINENTAL AIRCRAFTS NEVER DONE ME WRONG...(AND TRUST ME WE BEAT'EM LIKE RENTED MULES )...I JUST HAVENT SEEN A CARMOTOR BOAT RUN THE DRY AND HUNT LIKE WE DO ALL DAY , NOT SAYING THEY CANT I JUST PERSONALLY HAVE NOT SEEN IT...
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Post by duckluv26 » Sat Aug 05, 2006 9:21 pm

i hear ya. i'm really just the opposite. the two baddest boats around here, and there are not many in my area, are a 13' Stocil with a 300 hp lycoming. this boat is one bad dude. it'll run just about anywhere with a couple of people and 5 or 6 gators. however, the other bad boy is 17' air ranger with a 502 and a 4 blade prop. this boat ran through cane breaks and floating turf with 5 men in it that the Stocil wouldn't dare to run. i personally have never seen a top notch A/C boat out-perform at top notch car engine airboat.....i'd really like to see a few more A/C airboats, maybe i could get some pointers.

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Post by Red Dwarf » Sat Aug 05, 2006 9:40 pm

Water-cooled motors have a distinct advantage for long, hard running I think.

When you put a reduction unit on a car motor, the bearing size advantage that aircraft engines have diminishes because you are doing away with most of the thrust loads on the bearings anyway.

The lighter weight of the aircraft is also offset by the sheer power that a water cooled engine is capable of producing (and also the torque multiplication of the reduction unit).

Short answer is, it's probably 6 of one, half-dozen of the other, until you get up into the 16'-plus size hulls, but reduction units sure can make a world of difference.

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Post by Olf Art » Sat Aug 05, 2006 10:35 pm

After reading all of this ...... every word ..... I have to admit I like Rdm's question. "If it's that dry, why aren't you on 4 wheelers?"

I think (JMO) they're called airBOATS for a reason. Need to cross a road, a dam, or a levee? Go for it. Need to run the hill to get to the other lake? Go for it.

But the simple truth is that runnin dry for extended periods will not only ruin your boat, but it can get you killed. I'd love to know how many 'prop failures' and 'engine stand failures' could be attributed to a long, hard dry run a few hours or even a few days prior to when it happened.

A spinning propeller develops huge gyroscopic forces. They can be measured in tons. Now take that spinning gyroscopic cleaver and send it bouncing and twisting across several miles of dry ground. Something has to absorb that energy because the prop is relentless.

What absorbs it is your riggin. It may not show up today, or even next week, but it will show up.

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Post by Whitebear » Sat Aug 05, 2006 10:58 pm

There is no substitute for properly designed rigging. Anything with stress applied wont last unless its designed for the job. Pretty looks don't cut it.

Long hard dry runs though "I would guess" are responsible for more engine failures than rigging failures. I've seen it all fail at one point or another. Seismic is evil on boats. Some days we ran 50 too 100 miles and never saw a drop of water. Other times its all mixed up. Once in a long while it would be all skinny water.

If yer boat ain't rigged for it, don't do it. Dry running "SHOULDN'T" be hard on the rig. When it is, its the rigs design fault. Just My Humble Opinion.

Airboats can be built tough, yes, amphibious, yes, but they aren't tanks......grinn

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Post by Olf Art » Sat Aug 05, 2006 11:08 pm

Point well taken, Bear.

Properly designed riggin will accept the beating and (Timex) "keep on tickin". But I also think you'll agree that a lot of boats are runnin around with rigging that was never really designed right in the first place, and then time, corrosion, and stresses have a lot of operators riding rigs that could hurt them.

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Post by cfth » Sat Aug 05, 2006 11:10 pm

In my opinion there are those that run a little hill and those that flat out run it. I don't run it near what my father used to. I am talking wear the bottom to the stringers in a year run the hill. With the exception of maybe a thunder engine, I think you'll find the majority of people who spend alot of the time on the hill run lighter ac boats. As for why it's hard to explain but you just do. There are some places you can only access by airboat and you sure aren't gonna walk when you get there. There's nothing better then a heavy due on waist high palmettos.

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Post by Whitebear » Sat Aug 05, 2006 11:10 pm

Probably more boats than we both can imagine. It pays to know your equipment. Regular maintenance pays great dividends.

There is not a boat out there that can't be tore up or destroyed. However, you dont have to just because you know how.

Personally, I'm pretty easy on a boat. That comes from a few years running another mans boats and accepting his money for it. I wont run a boat that I consider dangerous or deficient. Just not worth my life or some one elses.

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Post by Olf Art » Sat Aug 05, 2006 11:22 pm

cfth. a heavy dew on waist high Palmettos sounds like a good time to me :D

It's those miles of sand trails with no water in sight that have to take their toll. Don't get me wrong ...... I ain't against dry runnin. I just want folks to understand that just because you can doesn't always mean you should, and purely from a safety perspective.

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Post by cowboy » Sun Aug 06, 2006 6:45 am

I agree with most everything that everyone has said above.
I think the one point was lost that Brewster was mentioning.

Gardners.
Your right Olf.
Theres no good reason to hammer your equipment that hard. That's my opinion also.
But... for many there is good reason. They have to do it, to get to the places they want to be in Gardners. It's improtant enough to BE THERE for them, to hammer the snot outta thier boats.

If they wanna run that hard, then it's up to them to decide if it's worth it.
They definately risk blowing an engine, getting stuck, boat comming apart, or just flat wear and tear is elevated for that kind of operating.

If your gonna run in there come hell or no water, your definately gonna be running with the big airboating dogs.

Shoot,
I have never been in there, but I know I'm not gonna go unless it's wet.
I know some who have 4 banger boats similar to ours who do Gardners, but I'm not gonna hammer my equipment that hard.

Hunting airboats in there is for the Hardcore for sure.

Hardcore!

I don't know the answer to your question though Dusty.
I'm guessing that it's like anything else.
Some Auto boats could do it ok, just like some Aircooled boats could do it ok. I would venture a guess that it's surely not a direct drive auto that would be the best choice. Now some one will come and correct me on that one too.

4 cyl aircraft probably aint the best choice either, but I know folks who do it. We had a little grey open palm beach hull w/ a 160 that was built narrow across the bottom, and It was built specifically for running Gardners dry. It could run dry with ease, and do it all day. It would still have to endure a severe pounding though.

I do know you'd better have a bad rig to run with those boys in Gardners when it's dry.

No matter what type of engine you run, your rig, rigging, engine, and skill level had better be stout for Gardners.

I would add this:
When things go wrong, or the boats get stuck...
I would rather have to deal with a lighter A/C boat, than getting a big auto boat recovered, or unstuck. Thats JMO.

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Post by SAFARI RICK » Sun Aug 06, 2006 8:34 am

Not to mince words here but I'm new enough to this ( and maybe dumb enough) I'll follow anyones A/C boat with my V8 any day. May get stuck alittle more often but I'LL give it a try. Hopefully that will change with more experience ( or will it :D :D :D )
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Post by Olf Art » Sun Aug 06, 2006 9:35 am

Good point, Cowboy. If ya gotta get stuck, lighter is definitely better.
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Post by dblj006 » Sun Aug 06, 2006 9:44 am

I have friends that have car motor boats that run through Gardners
when its dry. The one is a Cottonmouth, small block w/2-1gear no problem. The other a big block boat with a belt. His boat will stick when the polymer gets too hot. I also know guys that have a/c boats that are crazy fast that will run dry all day also. It's all in the combo. You need the right amount of horsepower for whatever hull you have and then it needs to be built/setup properly. That's important. No matter what, the boats gonna run true to the propellar. The propellar needs all the "clean" air it can get.
Hey, it's gotta be a lot of fun. I'd love to be able to do it. But I can touch the bottom of my pocket and I don't have a whole lot of change there to be building and rebuilding but if I did I'd go for it. For now I'll run nice and easy.

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Post by D-BREWSTER » Sun Aug 06, 2006 12:40 pm

HUNTIN LIKE WE DO IS HARD ON A BOAT NO DOUBT , NEW POLY EVERY 2 SEASON'S A BENT RUNNER OR BRACE NOW AND THEN AND THE MOST COMMON IS PROBLY RE-BRAZIN LEG MOUNTS ON YOUR RIGGIN.....BIG DEAL !! BRAZE IT UP BEAT THE RUNNER BACK FLAT AND GO ON WITH IT!! ITS JUST PART OF AIRBOATIN , WE ALL BUILD OUR OWN BOATS FOR THE MOST PART AND HELL I THINK WE ENJOY WORKIN ON BOATS ALMOST AS MUCH AS RIDING , WHEN ITS TIME FOR ONE OF US TO INSTALL NEW POLY WE ALL GET TOGETHER AND HELP OUT..ITS THE WAY IT IS AND HAS ALWAYS BEEN, THATS WHY YOU BUILD YOUR RIGGIN TO STAND UP TO THE WAY YOUR GONNA USE IT AND ABUSE IT..IVE GOT A LOT OF FRIENDS WHO HUNT WITH US THAT RUN 4 BANGERS AND POUND THE DRY ALL DAY LONG, MATTER OF FACT SOMEONE POSTED A PIC IN THE HUNTIN GALLERY TITLED (KISSIMMEE RIVER HOG) THAT BIG BOY IN THE PIC IS A GOOD FRIEND NAMED GEORGE THAT USED TO HUNT WITH ME JIMMY FOX ,MIKE LIPMAN,JHON OGDEN OVER AT 98 ALL THE TIME ..GEORGE ,JIMMY AND MIKE ALL RUN 4 BANGERS ON GLADES STLYE HULL AND RUN THE DRY AND DOG HUNT AS HARD AS ANYBODY..I HAD NEVER SEEN A BIGGER CENTRAL FLORIDA STYLE HULL RUN THE DRY INTILL JC'S BOY BEN STARTED COMIN DOWN HUNTIN WITH US , HE HAD A 13 BY 7"6 ALUMITEC WITH A 220 CASE CONVERTED TO 470 WITH GIT-ZU'S ON IT, AND HELL STANLEY WAS RUNNIN THAT BOAT THRU THE WOODS LIKE A BUGGY CRASHIN THRU HEADS CHASIN DOGS WITH US. AND I HUNT WITH PLENTY MORE CENTRAL FLORIDA BOYS WHO HUNT THERE BOATS LIKE THAT, THE MAJORITY OF AIRBOATERS STILL BUILD AND REPAIR THERE OWN BOATS FOR THE MOST PART, NOT EVERYONE CAN DROP 20 GRAND TO LET A AIRBOAT BUILDER BUILD THEM A BOAT, AND MOST WOULDNT WANT TO ANYWAY , EACH AND EVERY AIRBOAT USE TO BE UNIQE AND SAID SOMETHING ABOUT THE GUY WHO BUILT IT..AIRBOATERS USED TO TAKE PRIDE IN BUILDING THERE OWN BOAT AND DOING SOMETHING A LIL DIFFRENT TO SET THEM A PART..NOW YOU SEE A 100 NEW AIRBOATERS WITH THE SAME COOKIE CUTTER AIRBOATS, BECAUSE THEY GOT IT FROM A COMPANY WHO IS MASS PRODUCING THE SAME BOAT, THE ONLY THING DIFFRENT IS COLOR AND MUREL ON THE RUDDER......THATS FINE IF YOU DONT HAVE THE SKILL OR THE TIME TO BUILD YOUR OWN BOAT , IM NOT KNOCKIN ANYONE BUT ON THE OTHER HAND I THINK YOU SHOULD HAVE AS MUCH RESPECT IF NOT MORE FOR THE GUY'S WHO SPEND EVERY NIGHT AFTER WORK AND WEEKENDS BUILDING AND REPAIRIN THERE BOATS TO GO RUN AND HUNT HARD AND COME BACK AND DO IT AGAIN....SOMEONE POSTED IF YOU WANT TO RUN ALL THAT DRY WHY HAVE A AIRBOAT ?? WELL MR.. TO US THAT 'S WHAT WE PRIDE OUR SELF'S ON IN SOUTH FLORIDA IS TO BUILD AND OWN BOATS THAT WILL RUN DRY ALL DAY IF YOU CHOOSE TO....AND FOR YOU GUY'S WHO FEEL THAT WAY MAYBE YOU CAN ANSWER A QUESTION WE WONDER ABOUT YOU LAKE RIDERS .. WHY HAVE A AIRBOAT IF ALL YOU WANT TO DO IS RIDE AROUND THE LAKE STOP AND BULLSHIT AND FISH ? WHY NOT GET YOURSELF A PONTOON BOAT? WELL SIR YOU DONT HAVE TO ANSWER THAT BECAUSE ITS YOUR BUSINESS WHAT YOU USE YOUR BOAT FOR AND AIRBOATERS NEED TO STAY UNITED NO MATTER WHAT IF WHERE GONNA BE ABLE TO RUN THEM FOR YEARS TO COME.. BUT FROM THE START OF THE AIRBOATS HISTORY THEY WERE BUILT OUT OF NECESITY TO GET TO PLACES OTHERS COULDNT AND THEY HAVE E-VOLVED INTO BOATS THAT WILL POUND DRY GROUND ALL DAY LIKE WE DO , OR BOATS LIKE WATER THUNDERS WHO CAN RUN 100MPH ACCROSS THE LAKE OR THE GUY'S WHO WANT TO TAKE THE WHOLE FAMILY GEAR AND DOG PLEASURE BOATING AND CAMPIN ...THERE ALL STILL AIRBOATS AND WE SHOULDNT JUDGE EACH OTHER ON THE WAY WE USE THEM....I JUST HOPE THE AIRBOATERS NEVER LOSE THAT PRIDE OF SELF CRAFTMENSHIP AND THE PRIDE OF BEING DIFFRENT AND WANTING TO BUILD UNIQE AIRBOATS AND PARTS...
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Post by Red Dwarf » Sun Aug 06, 2006 2:15 pm

Holy crap, that looks like a pitcure of the Vietnam Memorial :shock:

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Post by fatboy0054 » Sun Aug 06, 2006 4:04 pm

I KNEW THE FROGS WOULD BE COMING OUT ! WE ARE ALL AIRBOATERS !SOME LIKE TO GO AROUND ,SOME LIKE TO GO THREW ! COOL DEAL EITHER WAY ! I CALLED THEM FART S --FLORIDA -AIR POWER -RECREASINAL- TRANPORTS ! :D :D ITS JUST A RELIEF TO JUST HAVE ONE ! :D :D I BUILD MINE - SOME BUY - PRIDE COMES IN DIFFERENT DEALS ! THE PRIDE PART IS THE REAL DEAL ! :shock:
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Post by curdog » Sun Aug 06, 2006 8:48 pm

lol red dwarf you made me laugh

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Post by cntry141iq » Sun Aug 06, 2006 9:24 pm

Oh my gosh, I better go easy here for sure. But here is a tamed down me tryin to answwer this one. LOL ok small a/c are very easy to get unstuck, piss poor running car motor boats are very hard to get unstuck. I have never seen an a/c boat that will match a good car motor boat pound for pound haulin stuff on dry ground. Most of the hunters use a/c boats in my opinion because they can start out with less investment, it is what they probably learned on, they think a/c is the original airboat motor for some reason, I am not sure why but those are my guesses.

Yep polymer gets hot and gets sticky especially if it is the wrong polymer type. But all of it wll get hot. The trick is to throw in enough stops to let it cool down. Also if your carryin enough load it is still better to stop an dcool off than to make two or three trips with a small boat. So this is where B.S. and budweiser comes in to play, the cooling off periods. LOL

But just run what you got and have fun, gettin stuck shows the true character of the ones you are riding with. As for the four wheelers well we have laoded them on the boats and hauled them in and out of where we wanted to run them because of the water in between. Personally i believe if you are going to run over 20 miles of dry ground I think you need a four wheel drive truck with airconditioning and a good radio/stereo with seats in the back of it and a gun rack on top and maybe some of those inner tube rings to let the hunters stand inside so the dont get beat up by the rough ride. GIT-R-DUN whatever it takes.
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