Who runs the blue and silver ECOTEC on lake George?

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Bruce
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Re: Who runs the blue and silver ECOTEC on lake George?

Post by Bruce » Tue Jun 23, 2015 9:04 pm

loudmouse wrote:For as much as I ride its not very often my boat is broke down. Knock on wood with every failure I've had she has always made it back to the ramp on her own.
1600 hours on a factory ls3 only had to change a few service parts (2 alternators,1 starter and 1 aeromotive fuel pump at 1300 hours) and it runs 3600-4000 rpm constantly i mean not knockin the ecotec because i think theyre neat for their size but none have proved that theyll have a long trouble free life yet i mean yall are asking a lil motor to do a lot
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Tony480
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Re: Who runs the blue and silver ECOTEC on lake George?

Post by Tony480 » Tue Jun 23, 2015 9:50 pm

loudmouse wrote:For as much as I ride its not very often my boat is broke down. Knock on wood with every failure I've had she has always made it back to the ramp on her own. BTW the drive plate failure is related to the gearbox not the engine.
Must've been a gen1 ox

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Re: Who runs the blue and silver ECOTEC on lake George?

Post by loudmouse » Tue Jun 23, 2015 11:16 pm

Tony, yes it is.
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Re: Who runs the blue and silver ECOTEC on lake George?

Post by SQD » Wed Jun 24, 2015 10:22 pm

Just wanted to clear the air about why I am building a larger boat with a Water Thunder engine and will soon have my Eco tech boat for sale. The issues I had with the engines were as follows :
engine # 1 ( I had the primary fuel pump turned down and ran the engine lean burning a piston ) engine # 2 ( installed a larger turbo and was running over 27 lbs of boost and cracked a piston )
I have been testing these engines to see what there limitations where and how dependable they where so that we could add them to our product line. I have invested a lot of time and money in this project and am sorry to say I am going to pass on it.

The reason I am moving on is the companies that would be supplying the tune and other parts to make these engines run. Non of them were dependable. I believe this will get better as time passes but for now I did not want to be a unreliable source to my dealers.

Now for the out come of my testing: THESE LITTLE ENGINES ARE GREAT. The 2.0 is my favorite. 310 - 320 hp. with the stock turbo. weighing in at 310 lbs. pushes 150 - 200 lbs. more than a o540 on the thrust tester. Burns half the gas as a O540. Uses pump gas. Don't burn oil or leak oil.

I hunted last year with a friend of mine that had a Lycoming o360. We were running high thick dry wire grass and maiden cane for about 5 hours. Early on I had to carry his passenger because he was getting hung up. He burned 19 gallons of gas and I used 8.5 gallons.
They are tough little engines and are very quiet. I recommend the 2.0 turbo and keep the stock turbo with a 300 hp tune. This will keep you out of trouble.
I have a new engine in my boat and it is running fine at 310 hp. with the stock turbo.

I hope this answers most of your questions and puts to rest some of bad thoughts about these little power houses.

ps. I am building a larger boat with the LS engine because I need A work boat. I am only selling my eco boat to help on the expense of my new one or I would keep it. It has been the best boat I have ever owned or even drove.

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Re: Who runs the blue and silver ECOTEC on lake George?

Post by gyrocopter582 » Thu Jun 25, 2015 8:33 am

SQD, thank you Sir. Testimony from someone who actually has prepared, experimented, and operated an ECOtec. I love mine, and it's normally aspirated. Goes anywhere I want to go.
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Re: Who runs the blue and silver ECOTEC on lake George?

Post by OneBFC » Thu Jun 25, 2015 11:45 am

To add to dave's feedback, I have also run the 2.0 Turbo for quite a while and do run a large aftermarket turbo. I believe my engines have held up great to the demands given that I have kept boost at 22 to 24 psi. I have run this boat since 2011 or 2012, can't quite remember, check my threads here to see detailed logs of the boat progression. I have done a LOT of work on this platform.

At 24 psi the engine produces 400hp with the EFR6758 turbo, verified by mass air flow numbers, AFR and of course prop thrust.

The part that gives up on these at boost levels over 25psi is piston issues of various types.

If you build one and run it at 300 to 350hp I don't see how it would let you down.

People get attached to numbers, rightly so a lot of the time. The thing I always come back to ask is "have you ever seen a heavy poly deckover boat with a 300hp engine move on hot green grass at Kissimmee with 7 people on the boat and not even shaken the rudders?"

I have of course, and it is not just the power to consider. It is the entire package of weight, weight distribution, the power curve of the engine (More torque at lower RPM than some V8 engines), the fuel economy, the noise (very low) and the low cost of engine replacement.

As Dave said, the Achilles heal is the fact you have to deal with ONE person on the planet to get the motor to run and it's a major bottleneck.

But, if you can manage to get a tune eventually, you won't need another one as the electronics are solid.

I wish I didn't have to move away from FL, I would have solved it by now. I don't have the bandwidth to do what I do currently and contribute to airboat technology. I hope to get back to it some day soon.

GL all with any ecotec or similar builds.

-Russ
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The only thing stopping you is FEAR
400+hp Ecotec, 12x7.6 DBDO, 80" 3B Maximus, 2.3 OX,85+mph, water = purely optional
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Re: Who runs the blue and silver ECOTEC on lake George?

Post by JB550 » Thu Jun 25, 2015 12:49 pm

I set my 2013 2.0 ltg up bone stock. I even left the catalytic convertor on it in an effort to keep it bone stock, emissions legal and as quiet as possible. Shane built a direct fit gearbox for it so that I now thankfully don't have any issues because of jerry rigging a spacer plate. I now have around a hundred hours of mostly easy running in the flying eagle :roll: :roll:. The ltg motors with their twin scroll turbo have instant throttle response and max torque at only 1700 rpm. I put this motor on a 12 foot Marty bray with a front driver setup. So far I couldn't be happier with the setup. Drives like a porche. I get just shy of 8 miles to the gallon as well. My good friend blew his water thunder motor up with just shy of 500 hours on it. He took the motor to him for a rebuild and it sat in his shop for 2 and a half months without being touched. He actually had to go get the motor and take it to another builder. He still doesn't have it back. Soooo... these are airboats guys and very often things go wrong it's all a learning process, but I believe that the way my Ecotec was setup it will be running strong well beyond 500 hrs. JMHO.

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Re: Who runs the blue and silver ECOTEC on lake George?

Post by plumcrazy » Thu Jun 25, 2015 12:50 pm

well there it is from the horses mouths.... the last boat i ever build will be a eco boat for the retirment years and fuel is 10 bucks a gal.because ive operated Daves boat and Russ's they are all what they say and more and the person who gets Dave Simpsons boat will have a state of the art airboat

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Re: Who runs the blue and silver ECOTEC on lake George?

Post by JB550 » Thu Jun 25, 2015 12:57 pm

Plum I have been riding the whithLacoochee River mostly this summer. Because its hot we like to put in at 44 and ride down to Big Blue and swim in the spring. On our way back we quite often go up into gum Slough as it's also spring fed and nice and cool. I never use more and five to six gallons of gas. feels good in your retirement years to not spend anything on your hobbies huh. Lol

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Re: Who runs the blue and silver ECOTEC on lake George?

Post by plumcrazy » Thu Jun 25, 2015 1:59 pm

got to ride up there with ya .... you have a cool boat sure.... it was a pleasure working with ya and proping your boat JB

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Re: Who runs the blue and silver ECOTEC on lake George?

Post by CarMotorBarge » Thu Jun 25, 2015 10:49 pm

JB550 wrote:I set my 2013 2.0 ltg up bone stock. I even left the catalytic convertor on it in an effort to keep it bone stock, emissions legal and as quiet as possible. Shane built a direct fit gearbox for it so that I now thankfully don't have any issues because of jerry rigging a spacer plate. I now have around a hundred hours of mostly easy running in the flying eagle :roll: :roll:. The ltg motors with their twin scroll turbo have instant throttle response and max torque at only 1700 rpm. I put this motor on a 12 foot Marty bray with a front driver setup. So far I couldn't be happier with the setup. Drives like a porche. I get just shy of 8 miles to the gallon as well. My good friend blew his water thunder motor up with just shy of 500 hours on it. He took the motor to him for a rebuild and it sat in his shop for 2 and a half months without being touched. He actually had to go get the motor and take it to another builder. He still doesn't have it back. Soooo... these are airboats guys and very often things go wrong it's all a learning process, but I believe that the way my Ecotec was setup it will be running strong well beyond 500 hrs. JMHO.
Jeff, I think you misunderstood me the other day on the phone when we talked. I don't want anybody getting their business reputation hurt because of inaccurate facts. So here are the facts. My WT motor didn't blow up. It had 540 hours on it and was turning as much prop on hour 540 as it was on hour 1. I started seeing metal shavings on the oil drain plug and lost a little oil pressure. I pulled the motor and took it to Dave. He warned me up front that he was backlogged. I decided to still let him look at the motor because he does such a great job. It took him about 3 weeks to tear the motor apart in his spare time. He found that both tabs on the oil pickup had broke. Metal flakes were circulating through out the motor and caused major wear on the bearings, cam, etc. Dave and I talked about what to do and how long it would take. He said he was still backed up. I decided to take the motor to somebody else to rebuild. Dave didn't charge me a single penny for tearing the motor apart.

The motor has been at the other engine builder for 9 weeks and is close to being finished. I am not going to name the engine builder because he does a great job and I don't want him getting a bad reputation on SA. Bottom line is that good engine builders are swamped right now and you have to be patient to get quality work.

As for the EcoTurds, they have 2 primary advantages that I see. The first is that they are good on gas. The second is that once you have the wiring properly installed, the motors are cheap to replace. You can easily find them at the junkyard with less than 20,000 miles for under $1,500. So when you blow one :shock: , you can throw another one on for $1,500 or less. The primary issue that is preventing the EcoTurds from catching on more in the airboat industry is the expense for the initial investment for the properly wired motor.

As for the longevity of the EcoTurds, I personally think the motors will hold up as long as you keep them close to stock power levels. If you want a 600 HP motor, get a WT or some other LS. If you want 300 HP, get an EcoTurd. This is what Dave Simpson is saying above.

So I have a question for all of the EcoTurd owners. When you break down (especially on the hill), would you rather have an EcoTurd or LS boat offering to pull you back to the ramp? :stirpot: :stirpot: :stirpot: :stirpot: :stirpot: :stirpot: :stirpot: :stirpot: :stirpot: :stirpot: :stirpot: :stirpot:
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Re: Who runs the blue and silver ECOTEC on lake George?

Post by OneBFC » Fri Jun 26, 2015 3:32 am

No question there JR! The boat with the most power is going to be the one for the job.

300hp doesn't compare to 600hp very well :)

Sorry to hear about your boat, poo happens, what can you do?

Not a single engine type is immune to failure as no matter what, they are all man made.
-Russ
-----------------------------------
The only thing stopping you is FEAR
400+hp Ecotec, 12x7.6 DBDO, 80" 3B Maximus, 2.3 OX,85+mph, water = purely optional
Life begins at 2 BAR, Just a good ole boy

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Re: Who runs the blue and silver ECOTEC on lake George?

Post by Waterthunder » Fri Jun 26, 2015 9:53 am

Oh boy I better defend my self here real quick. OK let me state all the facts and if I miss something here please correct me if I get anything wrong Carmotorbarge. I must say CBM runs his boat hard and he ran it hard for over 4 years since sept of 2011, I have seen him tow people in make over 20 full passes in one night. I always enjoyed racing him or watching him ride you can see how much he enjoys running his boat hard! And he even climbed a dike because people said he couldn't. He made it but he sunk it on the down side. 1st off the motor never blew up due to Carmotorbarges due diligence and regular maintenance. He was aware he lost a few pounds of oil pressure so I told him change the oil and send me the filter. When I received his filter I cut it open and the filter media looked fine. So when he changed the oil again he noticed metal on the drain plug. I told him pull the motor and bring it to me.

The problem that was found was his oil pump pickup tube mounts had cracked and broke off. (this is a common problem with big wide props especially 4 blades) See when there is a vibration, rigging and even pickup tubes will eventually crack it took 4 years but it happened.

At the time I was over 20 motors backlogged and CBM wanted his motor in a timely manner. HERE IS WHERE I SCREWED UP!! I could have lied to him an told him it will only take a few weeks and took a deposit from him. Unfortunately for me I don't do that I was honest and knew no matter what it would be a minimum of 5 weeks. I couldn't possibly have delivered the motor quickly. and I had 20 plus motors already scheduled on my board that had to be done 1st. So he picked up his parts and asked me about another engine builder. I said he will build you a great motor and if he has any questions feel free to call and ask. PS I didn't charge him a dime for any of my time or labor.

What sucks is if I lied about delivery time I would have got the job and it would have been done a few weeks ago and none of this would have ever came up. I know this because every engine that was on my board when he brought me his to freshen up has been delivered. So it would have been about 5 or 6 weeks pretty much exactly when I suspected but I knew this was a longer wait than he wanted.

So his motor is 4 years old has been ran hard and the pump pickup tabs cracked and broke off (due to vibrations). Carmotor barge was maintaining his boat properly so the problem was caught before it slung a rod and cost him a lot of money. I would venture to say 4 years of hard use slinging a massive prop the old motor deserved to be freshened up.
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Re: Who runs the blue and silver ECOTEC on lake George?

Post by digginfool » Fri Jun 26, 2015 10:13 am

Good info, Waterthunder. As I am putting a lot of hours on my LSA, is this an issue that you would say 'drop the pan at 500 hours' to make sure everything is good? At the current pace, I'll hit 500 hours in about 2-1/2 years.
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Re: Who runs the blue and silver ECOTEC on lake George?

Post by Waterthunder » Fri Jun 26, 2015 10:52 am

Yes at any hint of oil pressure loss due exactly what Carmotor barge did, change the oil and inspect your filter. I would base dropping your pan on how much vibration your engine see's. Sometimes them super dupper wide blades can really shake a boat. We now use a shallow full box oil pan with a very short pickup on work boats that run Maxiums or S blades. This way the pick up is very short and doesn't extend far from any mounting tabs, when the tube is really long vibrations put a lot of stress on the mounting points. Kinda like a tuning fork. We have motors with 3,000 plus hours on them with the same pickup tube but they don't experience much vibration so it's not a issue.
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Re: Who runs the blue and silver ECOTEC on lake George?

Post by stonny9 » Sun Jun 28, 2015 12:36 pm

loudmouse wrote:As to the durability of the ecotec engines they are TUFF! I have run mine 6 to 8 miles on the hammer @ 5400 rpms with a loaded boat. I have blown the silicone boots apart, blew the clamps off, even ran it Very hot and blew the head gasket. I fix it and it keeps going.Been running it with the tune off cause it takes too long to get changed(its summer and I want to ride) and its still going. Last Sunday I broke the drive plate to the gearbox into 3 pieces. Yes its an airboat and **** happens if you ride them a lot as I do. The ecm on these DI engines is super sensitive to changes and will hold the engine back if anything is out of range. Overall the ecotec does more than I thought it could do. If I was able to do the tunes myself mine would already be built to the 5-600 hp range. Until the tuning has been cracked it will remain at the mercy if one person tuning and I will not put a lot of money into it.

I had a lsj ecotech in my cobalt for 9 years. I had thousands of races throughout the years and I never once had a failure. One local was pushing an estimated 550whp on lsj with a stock motor sans a big turbo and e85 fuel. For the standalone application dont you just need Vince @ Trifecta to disable the bcm and then you can tune it yourself with HP Tuners?

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Re: Who runs the blue and silver ECOTEC on lake George?

Post by Comanche-pup » Sun Jun 28, 2015 1:42 pm

The question is longevity, but unlike Bruce, I say run them, if no one runs them, they cant prove themselves, when the ls's came out, if no one ran them, then no one would be preaching how long they would last


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Re: Who runs the blue and silver ECOTEC on lake George?

Post by br,lc,LA » Sat Sep 26, 2015 11:16 am

Dont count out the 1.4L Turbo. I am rebuilding only because I sank (twice) and Chuck found me a 2015 with 4000mi on it. The 2011 I have was pickled and the core is likely still good but havent openned it up to look. Wiring was being eaten by salt water since the second time it sank it was under water for 24hrs.

I can run sticky green with two people all day long. Avg all day ride was 15-18gal.
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