DualSync Waterline Drive, Update & Video

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WaterWalker
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DualSync Waterline Drive, Update & Video

Postby WaterWalker » Thu Jul 09, 2015 12:01 pm

July 8, 2015
Lake Wales, Florida
Water Walker props, Inc.

By David Wine,

Dual Sync Waterline Drive, Update & Video

As time has permitted between making and servicing Water Walker propellers, we have continued to develop and test the new Dual Sync Waterline Drive Airboat to prove its break through features. David Mosser (Plum Crazy) and Andrew McDermott (Andrew McD) recently operated the boat for a surface and aerial filming of this extraordinary work & utility airboat on a beautiful lake in central Florida. The video follows at the end of this post. (They’ve said it’s good to get paid for work they enjoy.)

The recent run and filming was done with a pair of two blade (shortened) Falcon line of Water Walker propellers at 60 inch disc diameter each. These are still not the best props for this arrangement and the team will soon be making shortened Signature twin three blade propellers that we expect will produce even more thrust and performance than what you see in this video. (Plum has to get the current customer’s orders out first.) We feel the performance shown is impressive for an 8.5 foot wide by 20 foot long work and utility aluminum airboat with a full 5/16” thick polymer bottom. Production ‘Dual Sync Waterline Drives’ will use their own specifically designed ‘Talon’ line of propellers that will be highly optimized for this new drive system. The design is done but the expensive molds have not been cut.

Most sport, utility and ride airboats utilize a thrust to gross weight ratio of 1:1 for an extremely high performance such as ‘race boats’. Good Ride Boats range around a ratio of 1:2 that can run the hill and cruise at good speeds on the plane in deep water. Many four place ride boats use engines from 450 to 600 or more horsepower to achieve high performance, climb hills and run dry with four passengers, coolers and other loads.

This ‘Dual Sync Waterline Drive’ working airboat prototype with Plum & McD on board weighs in at about 3000 pounds. The engine in this boat is a ‘Small Block Chevy’ stock ‘Crate Motor’. The engine crank to each 60” propeller RPM ratio is 1.6:1. The props for these recent runs were set to stop this engine at 4800 RPM full throttle. Plum reported that most of the runs shown while the boat was on plane were at about 1/2 throttle with engine RPMs of about 2500, or about 1600 RPM each on the small props. We had previously measured max static thrust on the trailer at 1100 Lbs. This new drive configuration has enabled our achieving about a 1:3 thrust to weight ratio and still demonstrate good performance.

This is an approximate 1/2 or 50% improvement of performance in the thrust to weight category compared to currently available airboat technology. This extra performance in the future with ‘Waterline Drives’ can be equated to and or manifested to increased fuel efficiency, or more performance with smaller engines, or in more range for a given amount of fuel carried, or more cargo carried for a workboat and more.

Our theories, mathematics and now proven field & water tests (see the following video) have shown that by lowering the center of thrust to be closer to the water (or dry land), resistance has been reduced and it has mitigated the ‘over center’ push down effect of single large propellers whose center of thrust is often mounted five or more feet high above the resistance surface. This advantage is showing up as a 50% improvement in our prototype performance in general.

A couple of decades ago I invented and introduced the first hollow carbon composite propeller systems for airboaters. In addition to their being stronger and generally safer, many thrust tests and tens of thousands of these types of propellers by ourselves and other propeller manufacturers have demonstrated that they provide an efficiency gain of about 20% to 25% over the then available (and still available) ‘Woody Propellers’. This new prototype ‘Dual Sync Waterline Drive’ system is demonstrating yet another major efficiency break through for airboaters of the future.

Other important benefits are; Counter rotating propellers deliver no torque roll to the boat in startup or cruise. The engine is positioned low in the boat for stable center of gravity. The entire drive unit is more compact giving more cargo area. The protective cage is at about the height of a grown man while the boat is on the ground. There is a taller than usual transom in place to protect against ‘following wake’ in quick stop situations when you need it most. The fellows on the camera boat expressed that the sound was less than would be expected from such a large airboat!

Now that ‘we know better’, do we still want to continue to burn a third or more of our expensive fuel ‘pushing the bow of the airboat down towards the water’ causing the airboat to perform as if it were heavier than it actually is. I began all of this by asking the question; “Why does a bass boat require much less horsepower to run even with an airboat in open water?” The answer is that the bass boat is not pushing its bow into the water with a constant ‘over center’ push down moment.

Enjoy the video. It was fun making it.



https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=s02A74z ... detailpage
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Andrew McD
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Re: DualSync Waterline Drive, Update & Video

Postby Andrew McD » Thu Jul 09, 2015 12:13 pm

Thanks again Steve, Matt, and Skinnnypockets!!!!! :salute: We had a blast filming with you gents. You guys have got some skills between operating the drone, its camera, and maneuvering the chase boat. I cant wait to ride with y'all again.

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glades cat
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Re: DualSync Waterline Drive, Update & Video

Postby glades cat » Thu Jul 09, 2015 1:35 pm

Outstanding. You sure have some revolutionary features that address and improve some deficiencies. The dual sync waterline drive, low-profile drive system and automatic pivoting transom.
Carrying 4 drums of water and riding that well was impressive. It looks like it rides great and stable. You can tell it's pushing flat and not driving the bow down.
Have you weighed it? It looks heavy duty. A working machine for sure. A front ramp on that grass rake would offer ATV vehicle transport.
Great flying, camera work and editing. Professional job.
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Andrew McD
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Re: DualSync Waterline Drive, Update & Video

Postby Andrew McD » Thu Jul 09, 2015 2:17 pm

Thanks Glades Cat.
The boat weighs in at 3000lbs but feels light and free for a boat that size. She aint no light rig, that's for sure! :thumbleft:
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digginfool
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Re: DualSync Waterline Drive, Update & Video

Postby digginfool » Thu Jul 09, 2015 2:24 pm

I know you guys aren't into speed but what are the limitations, power-wise? Not just for the sake of going fast but also for heavier boats and/or loads? BTW, Steve and Rich are good folks indeed. Haven't met Matt yet but he keeps some good company. ;)
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Re: DualSync Waterline Drive, Update & Video

Postby SteveReid » Thu Jul 09, 2015 2:33 pm

Thank y'all, was a lot of fun. That would make the best bad azz bow fishing boat ever made. Shooting platform is perfect height. Shooter could stay on the platform, stability is perfect.

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Andrew McD
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Re: DualSync Waterline Drive, Update & Video

Postby Andrew McD » Thu Jul 09, 2015 2:40 pm

Yeah Diggin, Matt's a cool guy and fits right in. He definitely has flying skills.

The possibilities are pretty open. I think a lot of it will depend on application and budget.

The 3 short blade Falcons would probably hold back more than 550-600HP pretty easily. For comparison, they were in the negative as a 3 blade configuration (6 total blades) and are just shy of the 2 mark in the 2 blade configuration(4 total blades).

The arbors could also be spread out further to accept larger props but then the trailer ability goes away. Could work for special area's and applications like where they run them 4 motor barges.

The next DualSync boat is going to be closer to 500+HP with a more "modern" motor and a significantly lighter hull.
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kwanjangnihm
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Re: DualSync Waterline Drive, Update & Video

Postby kwanjangnihm » Thu Jul 09, 2015 3:47 pm

Great video guys - where was this shot at??
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Andrew McD
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Re: DualSync Waterline Drive, Update & Video

Postby Andrew McD » Thu Jul 09, 2015 9:26 pm

Lake Jackson
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skinnypockets
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Re: DualSync Waterline Drive, Update & Video

Postby skinnypockets » Thu Jul 09, 2015 9:53 pm

I've been following this concept boat build from the first post so when Steve asked me to operate his boat while they recorded the video I was happy to lend a hand and get to see it in person. I was very impressed at how well it performed and the transom worked flawlessly.

I always enjoy seeing new innovations and this exceeded my expectations. No doubt this boat will turn the page on airboat development! The boat is a prototype build to prove the concept and it will be interesting to see what they do with what they learn from it.

David, It was a pleasure meeting and talking with you, Plum and Andrew and enjoyed working with everyone. Great day on the water! :rebel: :florida: :old_glory:
I'VE DONE SO MUCH WITH SO LITTLE FOR SO LONG, I CAN DO ANYTHING WITH NOTHING!

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blow boat
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Re: DualSync Waterline Drive, Update & Video

Postby blow boat » Thu Jul 09, 2015 9:56 pm

Neet, I like it seems like it would be perfect
Industrial type application's " but then
Again I liked the variable pitch drive
You made also !!! I still want one of those

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Re: DualSync Waterline Drive, Update & Video

Postby DDSBC » Fri Jul 10, 2015 9:41 am

Thanks for posting the update. I always love reading your technical analysis of everything. Good job guys.
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Re: DualSync Waterline Drive, Update & Video

Postby terrible ted » Fri Jul 10, 2015 12:16 pm

I would think just incorporating that transom style into a common boat would improve its efficiency by lowering the motor and prop like you have done. So the question is who will be building the hulls.
I do wonder how the transom works how it lowers and how it seals water out. It does look sweet

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Re: DualSync Waterline Drive, Update & Video

Postby WaterWalker » Sat Jul 11, 2015 2:12 pm

terrible ted wrote:I would think just incorporating that transom style into a common boat would improve its efficiency by lowering the motor and prop like you have done. So the question is who will be building the hulls.
I do wonder how the transom works how it lowers and how it seals water out. It does look sweet


terrible ted:

"So the question is who will be building the hulls?"

Rumor has it that friends of Chuck Rackley have been discussing with us about using this technology with 'Super Light Weight' foam filled hulls that might be called the 'Bullet Proof Hulls', being 'unsinkable and indestructible'. And weighing less than half the current prototype aluminum hull. Also with Chuck, you can likely guess what type of engines they are planning for.

"I do wonder how the transom works how it lowers and how it seals water out?"

The quick answer to this (with tongue in cheek) is 'Pretty Good'. Seriously though there are dual (for redundancy) spring loaded automatic arms that use stainless steel cables to hold the transom in its home 'up position' unless prop blast is there to push the transom down. The instant that the prop blast subsides or quits, the transom snaps back up to its 'home' position. One should look at it closely, if near the boat, to see how simple and fail safe the mechanism really is. There are rubber fabric baffles on each side for a good water seal.

Some more facts, and being forthright; The barrels shown in the current video were empty and used with the pallets to show the cargo area and size of the boat. Our Hydro-static calculations provide that the boat will likely be able to transport a full ton of cargo. Those barrels, full of water and the pallets would weigh right at 2000 pounds. Full of gasoline (at 6 pounds per gallon) the pallets, barrels and gas would weigh about 1500 pounds. When we get the short (60" diameter) Signature blades built and installed, we plan on doing test runs with the barrels full of water. With a ton of payload plus passenger & driver, the boat will be at a gross weight of about 5000 pounds. (like a full size pickup truck) We will post the performance results.

Thanks, everyone for the positive comments, they help to keep us motivated.

David Wine
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timmmyy
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Re: DualSync Waterline Drive, Update & Video

Postby timmmyy » Sat Jul 11, 2015 4:36 pm

great video ,guys . got 8 years flying rc heli , going to buy a bad ass drone
Olways on the furst date

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Re: DualSync Waterline Drive, Update & Video

Postby Prototype » Sat Jul 11, 2015 9:44 pm

David?

Maybe plum is busting his ass on your pet projects and will get his customers orders out when you give him a break and actually design something that sells in less than a half a decade of design and testing. You have a wealth of knowledge under you and all know you built the first hollow carbon prop. Legacy is great but I can't buy one new thing from water walker in how many years now of your lineup from a decade ago?

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Re: DualSync Waterline Drive, Update & Video

Postby ZoomZoom » Sun Jul 12, 2015 1:13 pm

Nice video, but not one picture of the actual product that is being hyped. Just views of the guys driving, not that there is anything wrong with them. Not one picture, or frame of the props, gear box, or boxes or even the engine driving them, you know the thing you want to sell. The helio guys will be thrilled now they can start selling birds with real short rotors, it will be a big savings for them. Oh! also what is the amount of thrust produce compared to the fuel burned to produce that thrust. Zoom

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Re: DualSync Waterline Drive, Update & Video

Postby ladyplum » Tue Sep 01, 2015 12:17 am

All I have to say is Prototype...you have spoken the truth...

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Re: DualSync Waterline Drive, Update & Video

Postby trailerdon » Tue Sep 01, 2015 7:45 am

I saw this boat at the Davie show last season. The transom system seems simplistic enough and durable enough not to give any trouble. What worries me is a duel prop "belt driven" running through each other. A belt failure would be catastrophic ! I know, I know, super kevlar belt that could drive a tank. Show me a manufacture that does not make replacement belts ! There is a reason for that. Do not want to sound negative, very cool concept. I just tend to sweet the small details, "Like Death".

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Re: DualSync Waterline Drive, Update & Video

Postby GeeLeDouche » Tue Sep 01, 2015 11:24 am

Thanks for sharing. Very innovative! I would also be concerned about the props running in sync with each other, but maybe that's a unjustified concern. I don't know enough about how it works to make a educated decision. but it looks impressive on the videos.
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Re: DualSync Waterline Drive, Update & Video

Postby chuckitt@earthlink.net » Tue Sep 01, 2015 4:59 pm

One prop is in front of the other. No sync needed. Bust all the belts you want and no problems.

Chuck

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Re: DualSync Waterline Drive, Update & Video

Postby gyrocopter582 » Tue Sep 01, 2015 7:47 pm

So, put a number on it Mr. Wine.
The design is an abvious success.
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trailerdon
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Postby trailerdon » Tue Sep 01, 2015 9:59 pm

Off set props! Outstanding. Back to a great NEW innovative design. Most definitely one to watch.

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GeeLeDouche
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Re: DualSync Waterline Drive, Update & Video

Postby GeeLeDouche » Wed Sep 02, 2015 11:20 am

chuckitt@earthlink.net wrote:One prop is in front of the other. No sync needed. Bust all the belts you want and no problems.

Chuck


That would solve all of my concerns then. :D If I could afford it, I would be very interested in it!
16x8 Utah style hull With a Waterthunder motor W/ 2.3 CH3 reduction swinging a 3 blade 78" R.
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Re: DualSync Waterline Drive, Update & Video

Postby Port Cameron » Sat Feb 24, 2018 4:11 pm

We run very shallow and sticky mud mud trails, occasional sea cane and a very tricky and sticky marsh grass called 'floatton", momentum is a must, do you install teflon or slick spray for ease of travel across high friction areas?
Also, where can I buy one of these boats?
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