Indian and Banana River fish kill ....

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Olf Art
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Indian and Banana River fish kill ....

Post by Olf Art »

Wow. What on earth is goin' on over there, y'all!! Early reports are that it's some kind of a fresh water algae bloom?? :shock:
Pictures I've seen on the internet show fish by the millions floating in the water.
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Re: Indian and Banana River fish kill ....

Post by glades cat »

Yea. They exceeded their bag limit. :shock:
Watch out for upcoming FWC regulation changes for affected species. :fishing
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Re: Indian and Banana River fish kill ....

Post by jopete »

seeing huge numbers of dead game fish make you wonder why the limit is only a couple.

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Re: Indian and Banana River fish kill ....

Post by mojoe »

It just SUX!!

Nothing more, it just SUX!!


I have seen the lifeless river of pollution in New Your city. It was once beautiful.

My family is from south florida, and I have heard and seen first hand the demise of the estuary that is now muck and sea walls.

I fear that we will tell our kids about how healthy THIS estuary USED to be!

First: let the biologists figure out the true science behind the event.

Second: spread THAT information (not what you buddy thinks is the problem or the angry chatter at the ramp)

Third: support legislation that will help.

This just SUX!!
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Re: Indian and Banana River fish kill ....

Post by pontoon outlaw »

Amen Mo Joe :) I've lived here my whole life, this occurs more often than one would like to see, the more people moving to the Rivers edge the more complaints you will see, either way it does SUCK for sure...

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Re: Indian and Banana River fish kill ....

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Re: Indian and Banana River fish kill ....

Post by Whitebear »

The causes are likely multiple and convergent. The real problem is not the causes but the reaction to the event. Typically I see hand wringing, interviews and article writing then fade to black until the next event. I always see the words, unknown, undefined, mysterious, and acts of nature in the articles and discussions. This is the standard fare, yet the root causes have been known for over 50 years and have been and are still ignored. Then NOBODY ever goes to jail or prison so if there is no penalty who cares. Until people are held accountable and authority becomes undiluted to identify and punish in a meaningful way, nothing will happen and the events will repeat over and over ad-nauseum. This time it was reportedly begun on a Wednesday and then the following Tuesday the authorities were "Getting ready to investigate". This is what sickens me. Why weren't they out there the same day the event begun, not 6-7 days later? If there is a murder you can bet someone will be there as soon as its reported, but kill most or even all of the species plus our Lagoon itself and it takes a week "just to get ready" to investigate. Until we demand some level of performance from the chain of command instead of this non-performance, nothing will change.......

I moved here right out of the NAVY in '73-4 when there was still some clear water to be found in the river and folks, already here, then were complaining about the conditions and the demise of the river. It wasn't even called a Lagoon back then. I remember then hearing about groups getting set up to investigate, and to this damned day they are STILL getting ready to investigate ! To my knowledge not one single person or board of directors has gone to prison all these years later. Until people go to prison for their mis deeds and actions that kill the environment the environment will continue to die. I have been told, well ya cant put them all in prison, and my response is, the hell ya cant ! ! ! ! ! GET IT DONE !
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Re: Indian and Banana River fish kill ....

Post by gruprgetr »

if they fix it then they wont have a job or FEDERAL GRANT MONEY
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Re: Indian and Banana River fish kill ....

Post by armadillo77 »

You do not need to be a brain surgeon or a nuclear physicist to figure it out. Big agriculture OWNES this state. The run off from the sugar cane fields , dairy farms and citrus production are the big culprit's also the old septic tanks on and near the river are causing the problems. Also you can not leave out all the Golf courses. (big polluters) . Until the public gets wise to the destruction of our beautiful state and gets on board with stopping it, the distruction will continue. Maybe tree huggers have a point. :proud: :rebel: :florida:

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Re: Indian and Banana River fish kill ....

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armadillo77 wrote:You do not need to be a brain surgeon or a nuclear physicist to figure it out. Big agriculture OWNES this state. The run off from the sugar cane fields , dairy farms and citrus production are the big culprit's also the old septic tanks on and near the river are causing the problems. Also you can not leave out all the Golf courses. (big polluters) . Until the public gets wise to the destruction of our beautiful state and gets on board with stopping it, the distruction will continue. Maybe tree huggers have a point.

I've only lived in Florida for around 25 years, but one of the first things I noticed was that even in drought periods all the golf courses were green. Excuse me ..... I'm not a golfer so my opinion on this might be a little tilted ..... but that just looks wrong to me. Sure, they say they use their own wells for irrigation, but aren't those wells drilled into the same aquifers where those of us who don't golf get our water? :scratch:
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Re: Indian and Banana River fish kill ....

Post by GCRedfisher »

The Ocean Research and Conservation Association recently conducted a test using a water-quality monitoring device called a Kilroy on the Indian River Lagoon. Weyandt says the device, used to measure salinity, temperature and pollution, actually showed the water adjacent to golf courses on the lagoon to be "cleaner" than in other areas tested.
I know it's a touchy subject but it may surprise a lot of you guys that those of us in the Golf Course Industry are actually some of the biggest Stewards for the Environment there are! Government regulations (since 2000) require Superintendents to to be BMP (best management practices) certified, we have to have a commercial spray applicators license with the Dept of Agriculture both of which require many many many hours of schooling and some of the hardest exams I've ever taken ! We are highly regulated and inspected regularly and if all the i's aren't dotted and t's crossed it bye bye license and hello fines in the many thousands of dollars.
As far as water consumption, you may be again surprised to learn that MOST, not all courses, use reclaimed water from city waste water facility's , those that are on well water, once again, are HIGHLY regulated with usage meters checked regularly.
The reason most courses look so green, LACK OF WEEDS! Weeds rob nutrients from turf, no weeds, healthy green turf, the healthier the turf the more oxygen produced ( I think I read somewhere oxygen may be one of those things we need? ) :toothy7:
We in the industry are just as concerned with the quality of the water we drink and the air we breath as the tree huggers are but placing All the blame on golf courses is just ludicrous. We have spent millions of dollars the last 20 years creating not just a place to whack a little white ball around but a true "GreenSpace" of sorts. We're placing nesting boxes for many species of birds, building lakes and stocking them with native fish, heck, a lot of courses even off nature tours now!
The industry as a whole has drastically changed in the last 20 yrs with all the organic products being produced yearly we now use "beneficial bacteria" more and more. These bugs are great for the grass and even better for the environment . Using these organic programs, harmful nitrogen, phosphorus , and herbicides have been GREATLY REDUCED and with continued use and development these products will eventually make fertilizer and chemical useage non existent . That's the goal for the industry as a whole.
I know it's not gonna satisfy a lot of folks but I had to step in and give my two cents being in the industry. There's always gonna be those that cut corners, nitrogen's a lot faster than organics but for the most part, we are doing our best to save the environment, there are just so many factors that affect water quality that short of Nuclear Contamination, you can't just pic one.
Last edited by GCRedfisher on Sun Mar 27, 2016 7:58 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Indian and Banana River fish kill ....

Post by Olf Art »

GCRedfisher wrote:The Ocean Research and Conservation Association recently conducted a test using a water-quality monitoring device called a Kilroy on the Indian River Lagoon. Weyandt says the device, used to measure salinity, temperature and pollution, actually showed the water adjacent to golf courses on the lagoon to be "cleaner" than in other areas tested.

The industry as a whole has dractically changed in the last 20 yrs with all the organic products being produced yearly we now use "beneficial bacteria" more and more. These bugs are great for the grass and even better for the environment . Using these organic programs, harmful nitrogen, phosphorus , and herbicides have been GREATLY REDUCED and with continued use and development these products will eventually make fertilizer and chemical useable non existent . That's the goal for the industry as a whole.
I know it's not gonna satisfy a lot of folks but I had to step in and give my two cents being in the industry. There's always gonna be those that cut corners, nitrogen's a lot faster than organics but for the most part, we are doing our best to save the environment, there are just too many factors that affect water quality that short of Nuclear Contamination, you can just pic one.
GC, I'm glad you posted that. It looks like I may have been operating under a false notion. If I was, my apologies. I was just concerned not so much with the water quality, but with that amount of water usage just for recreational purposes ....... the evaporation alone for an 18 hole facility would have to account for thousands of gallons a day in hot, dry weather. :wink:
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Re: Indian and Banana River fish kill ....

Post by GCRedfisher »

No worries OLF, I was just giving a Superintendent's view, the industry isn't perfect but in reality, none are. Everyone has to step up do whatever they can to preserve the environment before it's too far gone. Every single industry on the planet has its albatross of sorts, ours became fertilizer and chemicals many years ago when a couple of UF agronomist's published an article telling people in Florida not to apply nitrogen before inclimate rain, once the Sierra Club and other organizations read that, it was on! The 20 yr war on the Golf Course Industry began...........
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Re: Indian and Banana River fish kill ....

Post by Joe »

[quote]rapnaveral.....OPEN THE LOCKS AND FLUSH THE TOILET!      /quote]

Ding ding ding!!! That's the answer. Notice it's not happening further south between 2 inlets. It's north of the flush zone!!
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Re: Indian and Banana River fish kill ....

Post by Gary S »

Joe wrote:
rapnaveral.....OPEN THE LOCKS AND FLUSH THE TOILET!      /quote]

Ding ding ding!!! That's the answer. Notice it's not happening further south between 2 inlets. It's north of the flush zone!!
There is more water in the south area than we have seen in years, flood gates open to the south and pumps pumping water out of areas so it can keep headed south. I also heard that ENP even suspended water quality requirements so more water could be sent south.
Right now the culprit is mother nature. Record amounts of rainfall in a time when it should be dry. Lake Okeechobee full of water with aging dike and rainy season approaching.
It sucks but what else can they do with it?

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Re: Indian and Banana River fish kill ....

Post by Joe »

Didn't mean that far south. Was talking about indian river down by sebastian inlet and south from there where the water moves in and out and flows.
No doubt the rain and other thingshave alot to do with it, storm water run off fertilizer,sewage....., but it would help tremendously if they would open the locks for awhile and let it flush the river out. But the port authority isn't gunna let that happen.
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Re: Indian and Banana River fish kill ....

Post by digginfool »

I moved to Florida in 1970 and lived on the Intracoastal in Indialantic. Even back then, you could not eat the clams or oysters unless you took them from the area around Sebastian Inlet. We had fish kills occasionally back then but nothing on this scale. Typically, the worst event of the year was the annual sea grass die-off that would end up as large mats of rotting vegetation along the shoreline (stunk to high heaven). The Banana River, and particularly Sykes Creek, were never as 'clean' as the Indian River was. About the only boating we did in the Banana River was to go under Mather's Bridge to the Mosquito Canal to water ski and hang out on the banks of the canal. It's interesting to note that Indian Harbor Beach had a 16 million gallon raw sewage leak into the Banana River back in October. Just so happens, that's where the fish kill begins and, so far, it has remained mostly confined to the Banana River. That's not coincidence. I do agree that if they would restore free flow through Port Canaveral, the IRL would thrive. But, the currents that would race through the Port would make it nearly impossible for it to be an operational success. They're never going to open those locks. It's a pipe dream.
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Re: Indian and Banana River fish kill ....

Post by mojoe »

You can't "restore flow" into a man made port that never had flow. What made the banana river unique was the non tidal brackish estuary that served as a nursing ground for everything.


Sebastian has great flow... And the river down there died 4 years ago. Pelican island, long point, all devoid of life. The clam farms closed down. Whole river nearly de void of life. It was just starting to come back. Been pea soup down there for months also.

My point is: It ain't as easy as just "flush the toilet"

One thing I know would help with 0 negative reprocussions is to make bridges. Remove the blockades of dirt that span most of the river everywhere they built a bridge. Sure it was cheaper than spanning the river with a complete bridge, but now every bridge is a bottleneck that chokes off the natural exchange of water..... Problem is cost.

We all want to blame some big point source polluter like golf courses or agriculture. Truth is, non point source pollution is the largest contributor. That means us. Want proof? Look at Lowes, Home Depot, Wal - Mart, any auto parts store......

The pallets of fertilizer, pesticides, herbicides, the gallons of glycol, hundreds of cans of solvents and petroleum based products. Add all that stuff up. They keep a 1-2 weeks supply on hand.

That means all if tht stuff gets dumped, poured, sprayed by US weekly!!

Imagine the pile if it were all put together. Now imagine that pile on a barge dumped into the river. That is what we are doing! And every yard of concrete poured is another 65sq/ft of earthe that used to filter and slow the runoff that will be gone forever.

There is no easy solution... But there is a solution.

Step 1 is a genuine understanding of what it will take by the public.

Step 2 legislation for funding.

Quick, cheap fixes is what got us here.
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Re: Indian and Banana River fish kill ....

Post by Waterthunder »

I was born here and have lived here my whole life, I grew up on the Indian river between Grant and Melbourne. My daughter has done multiple science projects on pollution in the Indian river. Last years project was good enough to make it to the final 32 top projects in the country. As with all big problems there are several things contributing to it. What sucks about the alga bloom now is the river was coming back. You could go fishing catch a Snook a Trout, a Red fish easily the same day. The game fish are (were) coming back the river was making a healthy turn. After living hear and seeing my daughters project I believe The 3 most fatal things to the river have been Rain run off and Commercial Clamers killing sea grass and removing it. These clams an oysters are natures filter. Each oyster filters about 50 gallons of water a hour. We can improve things then our agencies do things like that pisses me off like dumping Lake Okeechobee again and as mentioned before they just had a big sewage spill in the river just before the bloom. There are several oyster mat projects going on now and they have found after the artificial oysters mats have been placed sea grass has been growing back. Even in areas it hasn't existed in 30 years. Its all tied together an a lot more people will have to get involved before anything changes.
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Re: Indian and Banana River fish kill ....

Post by Waterthunder »

Anybody who grew up around here into out doors probably knows who Bill Sergant is, he has been contributing to the outdoor section of the sports page for a very long time at Florida today. He just wrote a great article about this. The 1st 3 paragraphs brought me back to my childhood. I use to ski on ski canal way before there were any no wake zones and the manatee agenda was falsely pushed. He even bashed the clamers for raping Brevard then leaving. I SAW THIS 1ST hand! Anyway it's a great read called

Indian River Lagoon is paradise lost. In Florida Today
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Re: Indian and Banana River fish kill ....

Post by Junker »

[quote="

Indian River Lagoon is paradise lost. In Florida Today[/quote]


The link to the story

http://www.floridatoday.com/story/sport ... /82256442/
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Re: Indian and Banana River fish kill ....

Post by mojoe »

Waterthunder, I grew up on the Sebastian river. That article is right on. We uses to ski in the Sebastian river as kids before the whole thing turned into a manatee zone. My dad was one of those clammers, only he moved up from south Florida, not down. I'm sorry for what he and all of them did. Dragging rakes and uprooting everything. But the people clamming were not all Yankees, sure, many were, but I can't think of a single Yankee my dad used to hang around. Also, they did not all leave, they could no longer make a living searching for them as the price dropped. They found other ways to make a living. Most went into cotracting of some sort or another.

Is that any better? Pouring concrete, clearing land, and building more and more on the land that used to filter the runoff.

Yes, it was all looking like it was coming back this last 18 months... And then this. Just SUX!

We could fine city for the sewage spill. They will just charge the residents more for water and sewer. Already happened in Titusville. Decades ago. Didn't save the river, but the residents are still paying the price. Prices went up and everybody had to cap their wells. The fines have been paid but the rates never went back down.
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Re: Indian and Banana River fish kill ....

Post by Whitebear »

Fines are not the solution. Prison time for the top managers/officers of the organizations responsible for managing the health of the Lagoon and those who damage it are the solution.
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Re: Indian and Banana River fish kill ....

Post by Olf Art »

Whitebear wrote:Fines are not the solution. Prison time for the top managers/officers of the organizations responsible for managing the health of the Lagoon and those who damage it are the solution.
Companies should be bound by the same rules as some little kid in a sandbox at kindergarten .... if you make a mess, you're the one that's gonna have to clean it up. :)
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Re: Indian and Banana River fish kill ....

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Junker wrote:[quote="

Indian River Lagoon is paradise lost. In Florida Today

The link to the story

http://www.floridatoday.com/story/sport ... /82256442/[/quote]

Excellent article. I remember reading Bill's column all the time when I lived there. Two of the memories that stick in my mind the most are the massive schools of mullet that would move up and down the Indian River as well as the enormous flocks of coots (what we called them) that would float out there in the winter. We would take our Ski Barge and chase the birds just to see them fly. A flock of thousands was pretty impressive when they took to wing. I also remember the fact that we had such a nice sandy bottom at the end of our dock. We would get up before daylight and fish with live shrimp or Zara Spooks for trout. Would sit at the East end of the old Melbourne Causeway bridge and catch sheepshead with sand fleas. Our favorite trick was to take a shovel and scrape the side of the seawall to get them fired up then throw in our sand fleas. Good times. Can't forget the puffer fish, either. That's some fine eating if you know how to clean them!
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