Electronic ignition

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TIGO541
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Re: Electronic ignition

Post by TIGO541 » Thu Feb 07, 2013 2:25 pm

Dglover to answer your question- The Electromotive is very adjustable, especially with a MAP sensor. For example if i have my initial timing at idle set at 35deg when the motor is making vacuum. When the MAP sees the vacuum drop at instant WOT i have it set to retard to 25deg at 15lbs boost. (GSO480). When the throttle is at part or say cruise and making 15" vacuum the MAP has the timing around 30-35deg. You get a more responsive and more efficient engine. The MAP is constantly adjusting the timing depending on vacuum or boost. Without the MAP on say a normally aspirated engine you still do have a wide timing curve (mainly advance of course) but not quite as much as with the MAP sensor. There are 2 more ways with this ignition to adjust timing on a switch whether you want to advance or retard at an instant say with nitrous. Hope this answers any questions.
13-6x7-6 Hamant Ultra-lite,Custom TIG Stainless rigging,1.7 Rotator,Supercharged 480,Electronic Ignition,80 inch 3BLD R,B&S trailer

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Wild Bill
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Re: Electronic ignition

Post by Wild Bill » Thu Feb 07, 2013 3:22 pm

I think processor controlled ignition with a map sensor is the start to the advancement of aircraft engine ignition management. Kinda like what Waterthunder and others did with the LS. Their first LS's had carbs with distributorless processor controlled ignition and I think that's one of the reasons they are so efficient compared to a distributor with flyweights. Normal aircraft ignition is just set at wherever you set it. An aircraft engine won't be bucking back on the starter near as much if it's cranking over with only
8 degrees before TDC.

For me part of the enjoyment of a project is the research and being able to do something myself for a price I can afford and that's why I'm not buying a Electromotive or similar system however I am certainly not putting them down. I'm just looking for a more affordable way of doing it.

Next step is electronic fuel ignition on an aircraft engine. Hmm.. Processor off the Porsche, I have large enough injectors sitting in the shop.. :D

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Re: Electronic ignition

Post by todd glover » Thu Feb 07, 2013 4:32 pm

Ya that's great but the implies mag retards the timing you don't make anymore power retarding the timing the hot coils I did that for 100$ I just took out stk coils and used automotive coils impulse mag still retards the timing as for a blower motor yes retarding the timing under boost makes sense the only other thing you might gain is the timing won't bounce +- 2 degrees that you get fro
The gear mesh if I was worried about that I could install an msd pick up and and install 2 magnets in the flywheel I would need to see atleast 100-200 rpm increase in rpm before I would spend 500-1000 $ jmo

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Wild Bill
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Re: Electronic ignition

Post by Wild Bill » Thu Feb 07, 2013 5:26 pm

Reason I'm doing it is because I don't have any mags and I need an ignition system and I figure i can build a processor controlled electronic ignition system for less than $300. With the the Megajolt it's up to you what rpm the steps are at and you have 10 steps to work with for this application lets say 500 to 3000 RPM. Add the MAP sensor and you can set it up so increasing load drops timing.

So the thing is lets say at 1800 RPM cruise you find you can run 8 degrees more timing than you can with a your static timing setup. Punch the throttle, manifold pressure drops and load goes up, the timing will reduce to whatever numbers you have inputted into the program, If you chose that to be no lower than what your static mag setting would be that is entirely up to you.

Timing for starting, like i said you can input whatever you want. You can set it up so at 500 RPM you have 8 degrees and at 700 RPM you have 20 degrees. all up to you.

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HAMMERHEAD
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Re: Electronic ignition

Post by HAMMERHEAD » Thu Feb 07, 2013 5:30 pm


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Wild Bill
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Re: Electronic ignition

Post by Wild Bill » Thu Feb 07, 2013 6:09 pm

Bah.. It will never replace the magneto!

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Re: Electronic ignition

Post by todd glover » Thu Feb 07, 2013 6:12 pm

I've even seen a 4 banger with a volkwagen distributor instead of a magneto alot of ways to skin a cat but if it doesn't make it faster why bother

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Wild Bill
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Re: Electronic ignition

Post by Wild Bill » Thu Feb 07, 2013 6:29 pm

better economy and someone is going to have to try and keep up with the Ecotecs :evil:

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Re: Electronic ignition

Post by Dglover » Thu Feb 07, 2013 10:39 pm

:old_glory: I love that when a good post starts you always get negative comments about the topic. First let me start by saying these guys are being innovative and coming out with a nice complete kit for a very reasonable price. Go out and buy good mags and gears and let me know what it cost you and not JUNK. You won't be far off there price. Yes, mags work great and will continue to do so. Vehicles with an old carburator and a single distributor with points and condensor did too BUT, do you still see that being used by any automaker NO, and there is a reason for that. Its called trying to achieve optimum fuel burn,better fuel economy,more power,less maintenance with zero moving parts (wear and tear) and ten times the accuracy. I want to know when was the last time your car or truck would not run do to the ignition failure. The point is yes mags work are they better in any way NO. Its called new technology people change is good. If it wasn't take back your LED flat screen and get your old 500 Lb tube tv back in your living room. :lol: You guys also need to remember when lycoming designed these engines they where for airplanes which take off under wide open throttle get up to altitiude and set the throttle to a particular rpm and leave it. Not airboats idling and on/off throttle. Hence the timing being set at 25 deg. which is fine when your turning 25-2800 rpm. idling with timing set at 25 does not make for a smooth running engine. also being stuck at 25 deg. through out your entire rpm curve is not in any way optimum. :thumbleft: JMO
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farmboy
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Re: Electronic ignition

Post by farmboy » Fri Feb 08, 2013 6:58 am

Dglover wrote::old_glory: I love that when a good post starts you always get negative comments about the topic. First let me start by saying these guys are being innovative and coming out with a nice complete kit for a very reasonable price. Go out and buy good mags and gears and let me know what it cost you and not JUNK. You won't be far off there price. Yes, mags work great and will continue to do so. Vehicles with an old carburator and a single distributor with points and condensor did too BUT, do you still see that being used by any automaker NO, and there is a reason for that. Its called trying to achieve optimum fuel burn,better fuel economy,more power,less maintenance with zero moving parts (wear and tear) and ten times the accuracy. I want to know when was the last time your car or truck would not run do to the ignition failure. The point is yes mags work are they better in any way NO. Its called new technology people change is good. If it wasn't take back your LED flat screen and get your old 500 Lb tube tv back in your living room. :lol: You guys also need to remember when lycoming designed these engines they where for airplanes which take off under wide open throttle get up to altitiude and set the throttle to a particular rpm and leave it. Not airboats idling and on/off throttle. Hence the timing being set at 25 deg. which is fine when your turning 25-2800 rpm. idling with timing set at 25 does make for a smooth running engine. also being stuck at 25 deg. through out your entire rpm curve is not in any way optimum. :thumbleft: JMO
Amen to that :salute:
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Re: Electronic ignition

Post by slow ride $$$ » Fri Feb 08, 2013 7:11 pm

todd ,before you can run past anybody you have to be running

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Re: Electronic ignition

Post by todd glover » Fri Feb 08, 2013 7:35 pm

She is ready going Sunday you want to take daryls place or just worried about me

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Re: Electronic ignition

Post by farmboy » Fri Feb 08, 2013 7:36 pm

Wild Bill wrote:Yeah the only drawback to the Megajolt is you have to set everything up yourself. You have to download the software onto your laptop, you have to find the right com port and get the box talking to the lap top and then you have to decide how much timing you want at all the different RPM's, If you install a MAP sensor you have to decide timing parameters on that also, If you decide to put a dial switch to further adjust timing during th ride you have to set how much change you want to allow with the dial, if you want a second timing curve at the flick of a switch you have tho input the RPM's and timing values as well, if you want to retard timing when you turn on N2O you have do decide how much.

Edis is crank trigger or wheel spinning same speed as the crank.

Yeah the problem with Megajolt is you have to be the one to decide. If the unit goes for crap ignition timing goes to EDIS limp mode of 10 BTC.
Speaking of electronic fuel injection that's probably gonna be next on my "to do list"... Me and Abner where talking about trying to put a system together and trying it but it takes a little bit of money for that project but defiantly one that I want to see on a aircraft motor.
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Re: Electronic ignition

Post by farmboy » Fri Feb 08, 2013 7:42 pm

HAMMERHEAD wrote:
Now that's some bad azz stuff right there!
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Re: Electronic ignition

Post by todd glover » Fri Feb 08, 2013 7:48 pm

I'm sure the electronic ign is badass and I even thought about taking a fuel inj off a 4 cyl Honda and putting on my boat just takes alot of time and now that I finally got it back together I have to tester her out against a sv and av 540

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Wild Bill
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Re: Electronic ignition

Post by Wild Bill » Fri Feb 08, 2013 9:56 pm

farmboy and tod glover I would quote both of you if I could.

Anyway I have Megasquirt extra on the SBC Porsche. Dont get me wrong there is certainly a learning curve but it's not the wiring and build, It's the programming and while it works great it probably doesn't run as good as possible. (I guess I ain't no Waterthunder) setting it up on a car without a chasis dyno I have the wideband and set it to the autotune and log some driving and come back and change some things and flash it and try again. With the constant load of a propeller it wouldn't be near as tough doing it on the trailer.

It wouldn't take much for me to try fuel injection, my Megasquirt 2 extra is using the same Edis ignition it's just stand alone injector bosses that hold the injector in and allow hooking up a fuel hose are like $40 each. Thinking regular aluminum bosses and maby a spring strung across the injector might hold it in just fine. Till I figure a way to do that for less it will be a carb I guess. I could pull the Megasquirt 2 off the Porsche and only thing extra I would need is a nice inexpensive bosch fuel injection pump for about $100. I have big enough injectors laying around. Megasquirt 2 kit is like $280 if you like soldering yourself or $430 already put together, wouldn't trust myself for $150, not my forte! Harness is about $70. There is a french canadian guy selling them too and I like his harness connector better but I still had to go inside and disconnect a diode and do a jumper so I could turn on my electric fan on temp. Cool stuff though. You can download thier software and get the feel before you buy.

Image

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Re: Electronic ignition

Post by dozerman82 » Sat Feb 09, 2013 11:31 am

Wild Bill, so I could add a second 6 cylinder coil pack an still
run one megajolt module an one Ford module?

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Wild Bill
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Re: Electronic ignition

Post by Wild Bill » Sat Feb 09, 2013 12:32 pm

dozerman82 wrote:Wild Bill, so I could add a second 6 cylinder coil pack an still
run one megajolt module an one Ford module?
One megajolt. one pickup and 36/1 trigger wheel. 2 ford edis modules and 2 coil pacs.
Ford made Edis systems for 4, 6, and 8 cylinder engines.

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Re: Electronic ignition

Post by Olf Art » Sat Feb 09, 2013 1:36 pm

Easy to forget that aircraft engines have magnetoes instead of distributors in the first place purely for safety ...... the airplane can lose any semblance of an electrical system (as in a fighter plane?) and the engine will continue to turn. No question that for airboat use one will perform better and get better fuel mileage with an electronic system.

The next step ...... to fuel injection? Electronic throttle body. TBI will give you all of the benefit of electronic fuel management and you won't have to completely re-plumb the existing intake. You'll still have central fuel distribution like you do with a carb (which was never designed to been fuel efficient or operate at sea level in the first place) but much better efficiency.

Just my thoughts.
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Wild Bill
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Re: Electronic ignition

Post by Wild Bill » Sat Feb 09, 2013 1:44 pm

Considering throttle body.

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Re: Electronic ignition

Post by pacemaker1 » Sun Feb 10, 2013 12:08 am

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TIGO541
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Re: Electronic ignition

Post by TIGO541 » Sun Feb 10, 2013 6:04 pm

pacemaker1 wrote:The electronic ignition will appeal much more to individuals who actually have a thorough understanding of the internal combustion engine and the inner workings of the process. Every engine has what some may wish to call a magical setting where it is most efficient and makes most power given the setup. Unfortunately it is not magic. It is physics and chemistry. The proper electronic ignition systems allow the user/operator to have full control of ignition. If a particular user is not getting peak power, it should not be the system's problem. It can only do whatever you set it do for your application. The nay sayers who are hung up on the age old aircraft magnetos believe strongly in what they have seen and used for years. There is nothing wrong with this theory if you wish to stay where you have always been. Technologies are advancing as we read and write this. Innovations are occurring, proper change in the right direction is healthy. Let's not let foolish pride or ignorance cause us to dwell in a stagnant state. Opinions do not have a place when dealing with facts. Pacemaker Performance ignitions have been born. More to come. Just a note on electronic fuel injection-got it rockin as well. Have boat with total system of electronic fuel injection and ignition. Starts with a key, utilizes idle air control, temp sensor, wide band O2, throttle position, and multiport injection to name a few. Runs flawlessly on a lot less fuel. We'll be out on Kissimmee on the 16th.
WOW! Now i gotta see that setup! You gonna be at Miles Point?
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Wild Bill
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Re: Electronic ignition

Post by Wild Bill » Sun Feb 10, 2013 6:19 pm

Who is that masked man? Best of luck in your venture, should be a game changer!

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Re: Electronic ignition

Post by pacemaker1 » Sun Feb 10, 2013 7:20 pm

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Re: Electronic ignition

Post by farmboy » Sun Feb 10, 2013 7:48 pm

pacemaker1 wrote:We will be at several locations on the lake. Shoot me a text or call on Saturday and we can try to meet somewhere. 407-709-1278 (Rodney)
I will defiantly being giving you a call when I get up there.... I want to see it and learn a little bit about it. So if you see a (561)755-1692# come up on your phone is me my name is Kevin. Thanks!
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