My Cont 220 GPU Getting Hot... Rookie needs help!

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Salty Techsan
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My Cont 220 GPU Getting Hot... Rookie needs help!

Post by Salty Techsan » Tue Oct 14, 2014 11:21 am

Well... the fun unfortunately wore off my new toy quickly! Purchased a nice 15' boat here in Texas with a fresh top end rebuilt 220 on it. Had an experienced aircraft mechanic check her out and she was given a clean bill of health. First time out she ran perfect... sounded great, ran cool, etc.. 2nd time out, she got hot as firecracker on me... I hope I didn't do any permanent damage as I wasn't monitoring engine temp as closely as I should have been since she ran cool on the maiden voyage.. I tend to baby my equipment, so no I wasn't being hard on her... never got above 2500-2600 RPM.. and was cruising between 2000 and 2200 for most of the short trip before noticing she was hot... I tried to let her idle down to cool, but temp stayed up.. so had to shut down and wait a half hour or so before she was down below 200... would then limp along until she got hot again and would have to shut down and let cool and repeat until we got home.

She is still getting good oil pressure... never below 20 at idle, and bumps on up at speed... I assumed clogged oil cooler, but no go.. pulled the cooler.. no obstructions or the like.. good easy flow through it, and nothing in the oil that came out of the cooler... hoses to and from the cooler not brand new, but seem to be in very reasonable condition.

I read something about an oil cooler bypass, but couldn't find much on the subject.. would a PE-150/220 have such a thing? All I could find that seemed close in the manual was an oil relief valve/ball/spring assembly and associated plug in the bottom of the crank case.. Anything to check on that?

Many thanks for any help at all!!!

Kyle

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Re: My Cont 220 GPU Getting Hot... Rookie needs help!

Post by mwthomp70 » Tue Oct 14, 2014 12:05 pm

first when it gets hot put your hand on the oil cooler if its hot feel lines if not on the back of the moter on the bottom theres a bolt almost at the prop on the case there is a spring and plunger under that bolt pull it out and clean and replace hope this helps good luck

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Re: My Cont 220 GPU Getting Hot... Rookie needs help!

Post by Barry830 » Wed Oct 15, 2014 1:41 pm

Where are you located in Texas? If you're near San Antonio, I might be able to help.

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Re: My Cont 220 GPU Getting Hot... Rookie needs help!

Post by Salty Techsan » Wed Oct 15, 2014 4:15 pm

Unfortunately not too close to SA.. but thanks a ton for the offer! We're out of Rockport. Pulled the oil relief valve plug, spring and ball last night.. cleaned it up and plan to re-install this evening.. will post back with findings..

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Re: My Cont 220 GPU Getting Hot... Rookie needs help!

Post by Salty Techsan » Wed Oct 15, 2014 11:16 pm

Damnit... no super easy fix here as of yet.. Pulled out the oil relief plug/spring/ball assembly, cleaned and replaced... all dozen plugs looked a little rough (although they were all pretty consistant.. lower plugs not really looking any worse than the uppers), and appeared to have a couple of seasons on them, so went ahead and replaced as well just to eliminate that as a possible issue. Added a quart of Aeroshell to replace what I dumped out of my oil cooler. Cranked her up.. and for the first few minutes.. she looked great.. holding at 160 for a good while.... then... a steady rise on up past 200 after running at 2000rpm for ten minutes or so. Temp kept climbing, even when brought back to an idle, so I shut her down. She also seems to be running notably rougher on my primary mag than what she did on the first couple times I ran her.. I also noticed this the other day on the water when she got hot.. I also noticed that oil temp seemed to rise quite a bit quicker when on the one primary mag which at low RPMS seems really rough... and will actually stall out below 900RPM or so. With both mags on, she seems relatively smooth.

After shutting down, I felt the oil cooler, and it was pretty warm to the touch on the entry side, but was really cool on the exit side.. I also only ran her for maybe fifteen minutes or so, so that could be why the whole cooler isn't hot to the touch?

Any ideas??? is the rough running on the primary mag connected with the temp possibly?

Could the timing have somehow gotten screwey which is causing the rough idling on the primary and causing her to heat up?

Gary S
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Re: My Cont 220 GPU Getting Hot... Rookie needs help!

Post by Gary S » Thu Oct 16, 2014 7:21 am

How does it run with the bad mag off? Does does it heat up with the bad mag off?? Are you sure your gauge is right? What fuel you running?

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Re: My Cont 220 GPU Getting Hot... Rookie needs help!

Post by John Fenner » Thu Oct 16, 2014 12:53 pm

If you have high compression pistons and you are not running avgas, it will run hot, if there is a mag problem as you describe running rough and not under 900 rpm, you have a broken impulse spring and the mag is running retarded, 15' is an awfully big boat for a 220!
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Re: My Cont 220 GPU Getting Hot... Rookie needs help!

Post by Salty Techsan » Thu Oct 16, 2014 2:03 pm

it runs OK with the bad mag off, but definately not great.. still feels a little rough to me. I havent tried to run it only on the better mag from start up to see if it heats up, but I can certainly do so.. after temp started to climb this last time, I did try to run on just the better mag and temp continued to climb and didn't come back down even at an idle. I am not positive the gauge is correct, but first two times I ran her, it hovered in the sub 200 degree range the whole time.. and ran much smoother.

The guy I purchased from has had for six years and always run pump gas with no reported problems.. I definitely plan to run avgas, but tank still full from pump gas the previous owner put in it... I cold see avgas making a marginal difference in temp, but we're not talking "running a little warm" stuff here.. we're talking "burn the damn thing up" temps if I were to keep on running! scary! The impulse spring thing most certainly makes sense.. but would that have any effect on engine temp?

One other troubling thing I just found on this last ten minute test run on the trailer... I noticed a bit of white smoke coming from the vent/breather tube that vents from the neck of the oil fill tube. Is that "blow by?"

Thanks a ton for any help... greatly appreciated!

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Re: My Cont 220 GPU Getting Hot... Rookie needs help!

Post by Salty Techsan » Thu Oct 16, 2014 2:04 pm

Oh yea... one other bonehead thing I realized I had done...... nothing labeled on the control panel, and I realized that starting with the time she first got hot, I had started her up with the 2nd mag, and not the starting mag... could I have messed up the timing somehow due to a minor kickback kind of scenario by starting up on the non starting mag?

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Re: My Cont 220 GPU Getting Hot... Rookie needs help!

Post by GMAC 76 » Thu Oct 16, 2014 2:31 pm

seems to me if it gets that hot that quick and easy it would be a too lean fuel problem.....what do your spark plugs say to ya?...but if your mags are not in sync and are fighting each other she will get hot pretty quick also...that's why a run up with just one mag as suggested would be helpful in figuring out what is going on with the mags

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Re: My Cont 220 GPU Getting Hot... Rookie needs help!

Post by pgs2845 » Thu Oct 16, 2014 7:14 pm

If you have a Holley Carburetor and haven't changed the power valve, there will be your problem. You can burn up a cylinder at 2200 - 2600 RPM. Been there done that. Also raises oil temp because it's running lean at that range.

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Re: My Cont 220 GPU Getting Hot... Rookie needs help!

Post by Salty Techsan » Thu Oct 16, 2014 9:57 pm

many thanks for the input gentlemen.. greatly appreciated.

I started up on the starting/left mag and got her spun up..... took about 40% longer to get there, but she still got hot on me.. not as hot, but still hot... just screwing around in the driveway at mostly sub 2000RPM she got to 220 before I got scared and shut her down to cool.

Indeed running a Holley carb... just remembered another bonehead move that I wouldn't have thought was a big deal, but maybe it upset something on the carb? Left the vinyl rain guard that straps over the air cleaner/carb on and ran for about one minute before remembering and removing it. Could be coincidence, but the timing is interesting is that is right about when this bs started.

How do I know if the power valve is bad??? and what in the hell is it?

Just put new plugs in yesterday before running these tests.. Old plugs looked a little rough, but not terrible.. especially considering they had a couple of seasons on them.

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Re: My Cont 220 GPU Getting Hot... Rookie needs help!

Post by HuntingBigun » Thu Oct 16, 2014 11:58 pm

Start with the basic stuff do a leak down check on all the cylinders if you can find a aviation tester, you use air compressor and pump 80 psi into cyl should hold 70-72 on the other gage, that was the problem on my son in law GPU he had couple low cyls. if you do not have one you can use auto one but not as accurate way. Blowby of the rings will heat up your oil or running lean will also do it, your plugs will be really white after you run it hard and shut it right off and pull them.

Check the oil temp with a infrared temp gun, they are cheap and you can also use them to see if your cylinders are running close same temps handy little gadget to have

The previous owner may not have run if as hard so not seen it, do not think your mags are the issue if your drop is less than 75 rpm at 1500 rpm they are fine, if you hear the impulse couple snapping it and starts fine on that impulse mag heck my plane if I am flying a shutdown and mag you think OMG when it under load so you always can tell a difference between two mags or one.

GOod luck and post some pics of carb mags oil cooler maybe we spot something

Good luck
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Re: My Cont 220 GPU Getting Hot... Rookie needs help!

Post by John Fenner » Fri Oct 17, 2014 8:50 am

New plugs, both mags on, run it up hard, hold it for a good minute, don't let it idle long after, shut it down. Pull plugs and read the color. Should be tan in color.I will search my posts on mag timing, to see if your timing is off, my bet is on worn rings and ring lands and heavy blowby super heating the oil.
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Re: My Cont 220 GPU Getting Hot... Rookie needs help!

Post by Salty Techsan » Fri Oct 17, 2014 2:19 pm

Rings/cylinders/pistons all new.. engine had a top end rebuild around 30 hours ago, so I would think if there were a ring problem, or just general being worn out problem, it wouldn't just pop up over night would it? Remember.. test ran the boat, had aircraft mechanic overlook it... then ran again once by myself and she ran great, and ran cool.. then.. next trip she immediately started acting up.. only two things that were different were that I left that stupid carb cover on for the first minute of running, and like a dumbass, I was starting her up on the non-starting mag.

Here are a couple photos of the carb taken right after running her up to 220 degrees... choke plate wide open.. which is I guess b/c she the thermostatic switch/spring is warm?

I didn't read the previous post about running both mags and shutting down quickly until too late, but here is a shot of the plugs none the less.. Plug on the left side of each photo is from the lower cylinder.

On this last run.. I ran her again on the starting mag only at varying RPMS from idle to 2000 and she got to 220 degrees after about 8 minutes or so.

I did notice a bit of white smoke coming from the vent tube from the oil fill again.... If I had a little too much oil in her that she was burning off, would it it show itself there? or just burn out with exhaust?

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Re: My Cont 220 GPU Getting Hot... Rookie needs help!

Post by Salty Techsan » Fri Oct 17, 2014 2:25 pm

pics
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photo 2.JPG
photo 1.JPG

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Re: My Cont 220 GPU Getting Hot... Rookie needs help!

Post by Salty Techsan » Fri Oct 17, 2014 2:27 pm

plugs
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photo 4.JPG
photo 3.JPG

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Re: My Cont 220 GPU Getting Hot... Rookie needs help!

Post by John Fenner » Fri Oct 17, 2014 7:40 pm

Ok, way too much carb first of all, that 3310 /750 is way too much. Get a 450 cfm 4v or a 500 2v for it, running it choked out with cover could've washed the rings of oil and caused premature wear to the new rings, I second the leakdown test now.
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Re: My Cont 220 GPU Getting Hot... Rookie needs help!

Post by John Fenner » Fri Oct 17, 2014 7:45 pm

If leakdown test proves good, your mag problem is the issue, have seen internally mistimed mags waste a set of new pistons in one run.
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Re: My Cont 220 GPU Getting Hot... Rookie needs help!

Post by John Fenner » Fri Oct 17, 2014 7:47 pm

I never finish anyth,,,.

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Re: My Cont 220 GPU Getting Hot... Rookie needs help!

Post by hmgm123 » Fri Oct 17, 2014 8:45 pm

:shock: I would think the secondaries are disconnected and is only running on the primaries.

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Re: My Cont 220 GPU Getting Hot... Rookie needs help!

Post by Salty Techsan » Fri Oct 17, 2014 10:14 pm

Great info John, many thanks!

Question: if my timing is off, how in the hell did it get off? Running smooth and cool one day, and off the next? I looked closely at bolts that secure the mag and didn't see any evidence of movement. Any ideas ?

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Re: My Cont 220 GPU Getting Hot... Rookie needs help!

Post by John Fenner » Sat Oct 18, 2014 12:33 am

Impulse coupling spring broke, but the cover you say may have choked the engine sparks a question. Get a digital infrared thermometer and verify Temps!
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Re: My Cont 220 GPU Getting Hot... Rookie needs help!

Post by John Fenner » Sat Oct 18, 2014 12:40 am

The engine will likely use only the primaries of the vacuum secondary carb, if the secondary opened a wee bit I'd be surprised, but the pilots are still active in the secondary so too much air bleed, etc.
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Re: My Cont 220 GPU Getting Hot... Rookie needs help!

Post by Salty Techsan » Tue Oct 28, 2014 11:09 pm

A little update here on my delima. The aircraft mechanic that was did the top end on this boat 30 hours ago was nice enough to fly in and spend almost an entire day going over everthing with me.... I learned to retime the mags, learned how to do a proper leak down test and all sorts of other cool stuff..we also went through a little of the carb just to make sure it didn't seem like it was too leaned out. Unfortunately by the time we did the leak down, checked and changed the timing on the mags, and a few other things.. we were out of time...after re-timing the mags... we cranked her up.. and she got hot again after 7 or 8 minutes of running... very dissapointing! He left me with his cylinder wrenches and some instruction and all we could figure was blow-by from the the one cylinder which had a " not so good" compression reading...

Before pulling the cylinder for inspection and shipment out somewhere for a swap... I remembered somebody here suggesting I get an infared heat gun...not sure why i the hell I didn't do this sooner.. but in any case... I went to the local auto parts store and picked one up... cranked her up.. and sure enough.. after running less than ten minutes.. she was at 220 degrees. I got out my new gadget and.... hhhhhmmmmmm.. thats strange... all cylinder heads 340-360 degrees... decided to pull the oil temp sensor plug from bottom of the sump and like an idiot.. I wasn't quite ready and 220 degree scalding hot oil spilled all over my hands.. OUCH!!!!!! but wait... as i was preparing for the agonizing pain to set in..... Hmmmmmm.. thats strange once again... oil coming out of the pan that was supposed to be 220 degrees felt about like luke warm soup....let a cup or so drain into a bowl.. shot it with my new handy infared gun and I'll be damned... 120 mutha scratchin' degrees!... Yep... you guessed it... all this bs due to a bad freaking oil temp sensor!!! Boiled some water in a coffee cup.. dropped in the sensor and it was pegged at 280 degrees....... I was pissed off and relieved all at the same time!

There is a lesson in all this somewhere??? Maybe always start with the simple easy stuff first no matter how rediculous it seems??? At the end of the day.. this did force me to learn a ton about my new engine... and I'll be a much better owner and operator for it! so for that I am greatful..

Thanks a ton to all that helped set me straight!.. I look forward to being able to return the favor!

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