starter getting real hot and wont crank boat

Aircraft powered airboat discussion.
User avatar
444kyle
Southern Airboat Member
Posts: 102
Joined: Tue Jan 22, 2013 9:20 am
Location: Ocala,Fl

starter getting real hot and wont crank boat

Postby 444kyle » Tue Nov 10, 2015 5:15 pm

ok gs0-480 with 8.5:1 high compression pistons. new wiring for whole boat. oversized 2 ga wire for positive and negatives. i have tried four different types pf starters and it did it before and after rewiring.

The boat has been burning up starters about 1 every 8 rides. 5 starters down now. the boat cranks fine when its cold run it for 5 min. of normal riding shut it down and the starter cant turn motor over. acts like low battery. if you let it cool for 20 min and it will refire fine. if you go back and touch the starter case is warm to hot ( same temp as the gear nose) but the front cap on the solenoid is burn your hand hot ( at the time when it can turn over motor).
The ground seems to be the go to spot but it has a brand new wire from the starter directly to the battery and another from the starter to the gear nose. brand new battery no corrosion.

any help would be useful i cant figure it out. I know wiring and electrical are one of those things you need to be looking at to fix but thought i would throw it out there.
14ft JB Hull,Lycoming GSO480,10 blade warp drive

Daddy Dave
Site Supporter - VIII
Site Supporter - VIII
Posts: 2929
Joined: Tue Dec 14, 2004 7:03 pm
Location: Odessa, FL
Contact:

Re: starter getting real hot and wont crank boat

Postby Daddy Dave » Wed Nov 11, 2015 6:34 am

Have you tried starting your cranking process with your mag switches off? Sounds like a bit too much timimg to me. Get it spinning, then flip mag switches
A I R B O A T

Anytime It Runs, Break Out Another Thousand

jeepinocala1111
Site Supporter - I
Site Supporter - I
Posts: 1145
Joined: Mon Apr 21, 2014 5:57 pm

Re: starter getting real hot and wont crank boat

Postby jeepinocala1111 » Wed Nov 11, 2015 7:12 am

444kyle wrote:ok gs0-480 with 8.5:1 high compression pistons. new wiring for whole boat. oversized 2 ga wire for positive and negatives. i have tried four different types pf starters and it did it before and after rewiring.

The boat has been burning up starters about 1 every 8 rides. 5 starters down now. the boat cranks fine when its cold run it for 5 min. of normal riding shut it down and the starter cant turn motor over. acts like low battery. if you let it cool for 20 min and it will refire fine. if you go back and touch the starter case is warm to hot ( same temp as the gear nose) but the front cap on the solenoid is burn your hand hot ( at the time when it can turn over motor).
The ground seems to be the go to spot but it has a brand new wire from the starter directly to the battery and another from the starter to the gear nose. brand new battery no corrosion.

any help would be useful i cant figure it out. I know wiring and electrical are one of those things you need to be looking at to fix but thought i would throw it out there.


Make sure the connection is tight and solid feeling you can have a 2 gage wire going to it but if the connection sucks then that wire means nothing. Agree timing may be off.

wildman9
Southern Airboat Member
Posts: 52
Joined: Tue Aug 03, 2010 6:43 pm

Re: starter getting real hot and wont crank boat

Postby wildman9 » Wed Nov 11, 2015 8:04 am

Check your battery could be going bad it will show good voltage but not enough cranking amps or the battery could be too small

User avatar
444kyle
Southern Airboat Member
Posts: 102
Joined: Tue Jan 22, 2013 9:20 am
Location: Ocala,Fl

Re: starter getting real hot and wont crank boat

Postby 444kyle » Wed Nov 11, 2015 9:38 am

Daddy Dave wrote:Have you tried starting your cranking process with your mag switches off? Sounds like a bit too much timimg to me. Get it spinning, then flip mag switches


yeh always do.
14ft JB Hull,Lycoming GSO480,10 blade warp drive

User avatar
444kyle
Southern Airboat Member
Posts: 102
Joined: Tue Jan 22, 2013 9:20 am
Location: Ocala,Fl

Re: starter getting real hot and wont crank boat

Postby 444kyle » Wed Nov 11, 2015 9:45 am

yeh checked the wire wires many times. The battery was just swapped from a deep cycle marine to a new high cranking amp odessy agm. and had a Optima Yellow Top Deep Cycle before that.
I am about to pull the mags off and go through them and change to new plug wires. So i will be setting the timing then and will look at it before i pull it down to see if they are off.
But since the motor wont turn over with the mags off shouldn't that eliminate that from being the issue. I would think to much timing would make it turn over until the mags are turned on then it would slow down once mags are on.
14ft JB Hull,Lycoming GSO480,10 blade warp drive

User avatar
stroked470
Site Supporter - III
Site Supporter - III
Posts: 657
Joined: Mon Jul 28, 2008 12:33 pm

Re: starter getting real hot and wont crank boat

Postby stroked470 » Wed Nov 11, 2015 9:47 am

So you have a stand alone starter solenoid and not just using a trigger wire to engage the starter? If I am understating that correctly. If so then do away with the solenoid completely and run your main starter power wire directly to positive side of the battery switch or positive terminal of the battery and run your momentary/key switch starter wire to the trigger blade/terminal of the starter. Also make sure the engine has a direct ground from battery and not a bad idea to run a jumper ground from starter bolt to where your engine is grounded. This should fix the problem. Timing is not the issue if it still will not turn over with mags off

User avatar
444kyle
Southern Airboat Member
Posts: 102
Joined: Tue Jan 22, 2013 9:20 am
Location: Ocala,Fl

Re: starter getting real hot and wont crank boat

Postby 444kyle » Wed Nov 11, 2015 10:09 am

stroked470 wrote:So you have a stand alone starter solenoid and not just using a trigger wire to engage the starter? If I am understating that correctly. If so then do away with the solenoid completely and run your main starter power wire directly to positive side of the battery switch or positive terminal of the battery and run your momentary/key switch starter wire to the trigger blade/terminal of the starter. Also make sure the engine has a direct ground from battery and not a bad idea to run a jumper ground from starter bolt to where your engine is grounded. This should fix the problem. Timing is not the issue if it still will not turn over with mags off


Sorry didn't specify on the relay part. no just a normal gm style started with the solenoid built in.
the starter and alternator are bolted on the gearnose.
My wiring is set up as floows:
Attachments
IMAG0524.jpg
14ft JB Hull,Lycoming GSO480,10 blade warp drive

User avatar
444kyle
Southern Airboat Member
Posts: 102
Joined: Tue Jan 22, 2013 9:20 am
Location: Ocala,Fl

Re: starter getting real hot and wont crank boat

Postby 444kyle » Wed Nov 11, 2015 10:11 am

sorry about the crapy drawing
Attachments
IMAG0524.jpg
14ft JB Hull,Lycoming GSO480,10 blade warp drive

User avatar
444kyle
Southern Airboat Member
Posts: 102
Joined: Tue Jan 22, 2013 9:20 am
Location: Ocala,Fl

Re: starter getting real hot and wont crank boat

Postby 444kyle » Wed Nov 11, 2015 10:12 am

negative goes from battery to gear nose bolt then second wire from that bolt to starter bolt. so grounding threw wire and through the gear nose.
14ft JB Hull,Lycoming GSO480,10 blade warp drive

User avatar
stroked470
Site Supporter - III
Site Supporter - III
Posts: 657
Joined: Mon Jul 28, 2008 12:33 pm

Re: starter getting real hot and wont crank boat

Postby stroked470 » Wed Nov 11, 2015 10:19 am

Man you 100% have it wired correctly. Is Your jumper ground the same size as the main ground going to the gear nose?

User avatar
444kyle
Southern Airboat Member
Posts: 102
Joined: Tue Jan 22, 2013 9:20 am
Location: Ocala,Fl

Re: starter getting real hot and wont crank boat

Postby 444kyle » Wed Nov 11, 2015 11:00 am

stroked470 wrote:Man you 100% have it wired correctly. Is Your jumper ground the same size as the main ground going to the gear nose?


My positive and the negative from battery are 1ga. and then the jumper wire from gear nose to starter bolt is 6ga. and the charge + from alt. is 6ga.
14ft JB Hull,Lycoming GSO480,10 blade warp drive

User avatar
stroked470
Site Supporter - III
Site Supporter - III
Posts: 657
Joined: Mon Jul 28, 2008 12:33 pm

Re: starter getting real hot and wont crank boat

Postby stroked470 » Wed Nov 11, 2015 11:06 am

Man that should be more than adequate. If you have enough wire reverse how you have it grounded. Go direct to the starter bolt with the 1ga and back to the gear nose with the 6ga. It is possible it is searching for a ground and frying it. Your starter bracket isn't powder coated is it??

User avatar
444kyle
Southern Airboat Member
Posts: 102
Joined: Tue Jan 22, 2013 9:20 am
Location: Ocala,Fl

Re: starter getting real hot and wont crank boat

Postby 444kyle » Wed Nov 11, 2015 11:28 am

no its not powderd. but it is painted, i thought i had it sanded to make contact but i guese i might take it off again and try. thats why i ran the extra jumper wire just incase it was not grounding threw the nose. Even my jumper wire i thought should be adequate if there was a issue with the main through the gear nose.
14ft JB Hull,Lycoming GSO480,10 blade warp drive

User avatar
stroked470
Site Supporter - III
Site Supporter - III
Posts: 657
Joined: Mon Jul 28, 2008 12:33 pm

Re: starter getting real hot and wont crank boat

Postby stroked470 » Wed Nov 11, 2015 11:54 am

I guarantee that's where the issue is. Scrape all of that paint of the backside of the bracket and the paint of the block and re bolt it on. It is searching for a ground

User avatar
John Fenner
Southern Airboat Member
Posts: 2557
Joined: Tue Feb 14, 2012 12:26 pm
Location: Miami(Cuba) Fl.

Re: starter getting real hot and wont crank boat

Postby John Fenner » Wed Nov 11, 2015 12:01 pm

Please enlighten me that the cables you have are NOT the crap that auto part stores sell with cheesy tin crimped ends? If so, remove all cables and solder new copper lug ends on them. I've chased problems with this for years on many boats and my VW trike as well.
I never finish anyth,,,.

User avatar
444kyle
Southern Airboat Member
Posts: 102
Joined: Tue Jan 22, 2013 9:20 am
Location: Ocala,Fl

Re: starter getting real hot and wont crank boat

Postby 444kyle » Wed Nov 11, 2015 12:12 pm

i will pull the pl;ate off and grind it all down again and try it.

yes the ends are crimp on ends but they are not the cheap flimsy crap they are good ends. plus they are all new so no chance of corrsion being issue.
14ft JB Hull,Lycoming GSO480,10 blade warp drive

User avatar
444kyle
Southern Airboat Member
Posts: 102
Joined: Tue Jan 22, 2013 9:20 am
Location: Ocala,Fl

Re: starter getting real hot and wont crank boat

Postby 444kyle » Wed Nov 11, 2015 12:18 pm

I will pull the cables off and try soddering the ends. while i have it apart.
14ft JB Hull,Lycoming GSO480,10 blade warp drive

One Eyed Gator
Southern Airboat Member
Posts: 1137
Joined: Wed May 30, 2007 11:33 am
Location: Ocala,Fl

Re: starter getting real hot and wont crank boat

Postby One Eyed Gator » Wed Nov 11, 2015 3:35 pm

I had Hurricane in Ocala make me a few custom length cable out of very oversized wire. They worked great but still had a problem I had to sand the portion of the block where the starter mounted and no more issue, at least for me.

User avatar
glades cat
Site Supporter - III
Site Supporter - III
Posts: 2996
Joined: Mon Jan 22, 2007 2:36 pm
Location: Miami, Fl

Re: starter getting real hot and wont crank boat

Postby glades cat » Wed Nov 11, 2015 5:12 pm

If you're thinking about re-doing your battery cables...
Do a little research on crimped vs soldered terminals. You'll be surprised how the heating of the wire and the solder wicking up the wire actually makes the connection brittle. If you manage to use plumbing solder and acid flux instead of rosin core solder, now you've added a corrosive component to your connection. If you are using lead-free solder, instead of 60/40 tin/lead, it is harder and has a higher melting point, which causes you to overheat the wire and anneal the copper, making it brittle.
Soldering terminal can be done, but if done incorrectly, will cause problems over time.
I would advise on having quality wires made with crimped connectors with a proper crimping tool and heat-shrink tubing. It is a good mechanical connection that will resist vibration better than soldered.
Also, if your wires have overheated, they're done. They get annealed, brittle and the resistance goes through the roof.
"Leave a legacy...Preserve the irreplaceable"
12' x 7' sled built by Scorpion, Cont. O-470-K, 72" Whisper Tip
Rigged by Gladescat & sons in 2009

User avatar
mojoe
Southern Airboat Member
Posts: 834
Joined: Thu Jul 23, 2009 8:55 pm
Location: Catfish Motel

Re: starter getting real hot and wont crank boat

Postby mojoe » Wed Nov 11, 2015 8:54 pm

I don't have near the expertise of Glades Cat, but I'm having a hard time with that. I crimped connections until I was in my late 20's. That is when I learned to solder large gage wire correcty(or so I think). I have soldered every large connector since. I am 40 now, typically solder a few a year for something or other, and haven't had one crap out. Only use my big crimper for stainless cable any more. I'm not saying you can't skrew it up, but it can be done very reliably.
Airboating is like marriage: There are unlimited ways a person can be right, and somehow still be wrong at the same time!!

User avatar
Comanche-pup
Site Supporter - IV
Site Supporter - IV
Posts: 1539
Joined: Thu Aug 09, 2012 9:05 pm
Location: Bannerville

Re: starter getting real hot and wont crank boat

Postby Comanche-pup » Wed Nov 11, 2015 9:40 pm

Also when soldering there are actual different connectors specifically for soldering


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

User avatar
nunook
Southern Airboat Member
Posts: 127
Joined: Wed Oct 22, 2008 10:37 pm
Location: Loxahatchee

Re: starter getting real hot and wont crank boat

Postby nunook » Wed Nov 11, 2015 9:46 pm

What kinda starter are you running? When I bought my boat It had a Nippondenso starter on it and I would run into the same problem or due to the gearing I would snap off the ears of the starter being pot metal and stripped my ring gear. I did a little research and found a standard Chevy small block starter will work find without changing the nose cone. I purchased a good quality gear reduction starter and built a bracket that bolts to the right side of the motor and works great. I'm no expert fabricator a little bit of time and it solved the problems I was having, and I can find a starter anywhere if needed including the parking lot LOL. :roll: It has been on there since 2009
Image
2006 Floral City 14' Deckover Lycoming GSO-480

Gary S
Site Supporter - I
Site Supporter - I
Posts: 1387
Joined: Wed Mar 03, 2010 3:30 pm
Location: Redlands

Re: starter getting real hot and wont crank boat

Postby Gary S » Thu Nov 12, 2015 7:53 am

By any chance do you have a cylinder head temp. gauge on the boat? If your running to advanced you can run hot and make it hard to start.
And glades cat when copper is annealed it gets soft not brittle.

User avatar
444kyle
Southern Airboat Member
Posts: 102
Joined: Tue Jan 22, 2013 9:20 am
Location: Ocala,Fl

Re: starter getting real hot and wont crank boat

Postby 444kyle » Thu Nov 12, 2015 11:13 am

nunook wrote:What kinda starter are you running? When I bought my boat It had a Nippondenso starter on it and I would run into the same problem or due to the gearing I would snap off the ears of the starter being pot metal and stripped my ring gear. I did a little research and found a standard Chevy small block starter will work find without changing the nose cone. I purchased a good quality gear reduction starter and built a bracket that bolts to the right side of the motor and works great. I'm no expert fabricator a little bit of time and it solved the problems I was having, and I can find a starter anywhere if needed including the parking lot LOL. :roll: It has been on there since 2009
Image

I have a powermaster on it now the same one you have in the picture. I have ran two other style powermasters and the expensive Msd starter all with the same results. They last for about 4 months then the overheating of the starter burns up the relay internally or burns up the armeture.
14ft JB Hull,Lycoming GSO480,10 blade warp drive


Return to “Aircraft Power Only”

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 10 guests