Counter rotating props

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Norris
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Counter rotating props

Post by Norris »

I understand the science behind counterroatating props, makes sense to me. We don't really having any racing here but when I see pics of race boats in the magazines none of them have a counter rotator.. matter of fact most just have a stinger gear box, and one prop. How come if counterrotators are better, (and a ton of new boats are built with them from the manufacuturers) why don't the racers use them?

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bondsman
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Re: Counter rotating props

Post by bondsman »

weight difference alone between the counter rotator and a standerd gearbox could be enough to cause a loss in 400ft. plus more blades and more drive line equals alot slower snap so off the line would be a turd even if you used warp drive blades you would still get your but handed to you.

plus on a side note there have been claims that a certain combo of blades do out thrust a counter rotator. but the idea is sound on them and they seem to be quieter and thats a plus for a ride boat.
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H S AIRBOATS
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Re: Counter rotating props

Post by H S AIRBOATS »

what i have noticed about them is how much room you loose with them. the double stack eats up alot of room that most race boats don't have to give up.
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hmgm123
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Re: Counter rotating props

Post by hmgm123 »

If the sport of drag racing grows in hp the counter rotator will be necessary. I mean seriously if you have top fuel 6000hp motor turning a 5 blade super wide "164 long spells torque roll. That when you need the counter rotator.


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Re: Counter rotating props

Post by Waterthunder »

There is only one type of counter prop to run in a race boat and you can't buy them unless you buy their whole boat! They have some very good qualities about them but they also have one or two down falls it depends on what you want out of a boat and you must change everything about a boat and rigging when you run one! I think if you run over 1,500HP or more your better off just running a small jet!
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Norris
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Re: Counter rotating props

Post by Norris »

If the counterrotating prop deal was really better for performance, i gotta beleive the makers of them would frickin give them to the successful racers. What better advertising is there than winnning on sunday. bottom line, from what I see and that is all I know, they must not work that good, or the racers would have them.

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hmgm123
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Re: Counter rotating props

Post by hmgm123 »

Norris you can't buy the Gear to Gear counter rotator unless you buy the whole boat from Panther airboats. If you could buy them I would imagine they would run about 7grand.


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Re: Counter rotating props

Post by Waterthunder »

Norris just drive one and you will see! There is a big difference between the belt and the gear to gear! I have drove a dozen counter prop boats and two of them were insane on how well the boat ran for as big as it was! You need to realize there is no money in racing and I have only had one person ever approach me about loaning me parts or a sponsor and that was Sensenich they sponsor me prop wise. Airboat racing means nothing to most manufactures. They are way more interested in lake clean up's and benefits for OBVIOUS REASONS a much larger base of people attend! You maybe have one or two races a year that’s it!
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Re: Counter rotating props

Post by Norris »

could be, but all the high end race boats i see, (mostly pics on here and in magazines) use a stinger with one prop. Thats why I choose the same set up for my ride boat.. If anything I think the Counterrotator deal is more of a gimmick that anything else, if not the race boats would have them. I have been involved with racing like a lot of you have.. You know a guy will do or run anything to win. Also as a manufacturer, i would always want my high end products winnning races...oh also cant you buy them used??? also I have I have seen the pics and posts about race boats, you guys do whatever it takes to win, this is competitive, if a counter rotator was the key you would have them..

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Re: Counter rotating props

Post by marshmaster pat »

They have less torque roll produced is the main thing I have seen. If someone is not used to having a boat produce torque roll (like a newbee) and they stomp on a big block, some of them newbes are scared $hitle$$ when it occurs. Jump into a boat with a belt drive and it is even worst. Then try that Panther gear counter rotator and no more torque roll.

Plus about 95% of the airboaters don't really look for 400 ft 0 to 90 mph performance. We are wanting a ride boat that doesn't get stuck, can run dry, and on a good day make a buddy eat some water spray.

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airduds
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Re: Counter rotating props

Post by airduds »

The fastest propeller driven airplane in the world uses counter (or is it contra?) rotators.

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Re: Counter rotating props

Post by yobee »

Seems pretty simple why they arent run on race boats...Heavy, Spacious, and you need to LOT of HP to get em to snap up like you would a 2 blade. The race is 400' not 2 miles. Plus i thought i read it had been proven certain props had outperformed contra-rotaters in thrust testing..?
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Re: Counter rotating props

Post by cntry141iq »

There was a counter rotator for sale in the classifieds for 3500 I think
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Re: Counter rotating props

Post by hmgm123 »

cntry141iq wrote:There was a counter rotator for sale in the classifieds for 3500 I think
I think he had best offer on it. I kept waiting if he would come up a price. That was oldman-green.

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Re: Counter rotating props

Post by Waterthunder »

Somebody already said it best a 400ft race boat and a ride boat are two different things. If ride boats were set up like race boats they would have a 76'' prop a way different gear and would cruise around 4,500RPM's. There was very little if anything in common between my ride boat and race boat. They both used the same block and ignition and that's about it!
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Re: Counter rotating props

Post by C1gator »

Kind of off topic, but i am curious about fuel consumption, seems like it would help a bit to me.....Also, I can't say that I think it's fair to compare them to a standard gear box on a race boat that is designed to get all it's got in 400'. They are built for big boats with big power. Take 2 exact boats, with the exact weight same riggin same motor, one with the CR, and one without....run them both for the same amount of time in the same places and then do your camparison....If airboat races were designed like the 24 hours of daytona, the CR might be the way to go. I don't have one or have never been on a boat that has one, so take this post with a grain of salt, it's all JMO.

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Re: Counter rotating props

Post by Waterthunder »

The necessity of invention for the counter rotating prop was fuel economy. Once again the Germans did it in WWII so a bomber could fly from Europe to America and bomb us. The Germans didn’t have any bases or way’s to refuel so they invented the counter rotating props. The Soviets picked it up for the same reasons. The biggest advantage of a counter rotator is efficiency!
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Re: Counter rotating props

Post by C1gator »

Thanks WT. So if you have a big boat such as most guides or a tour business, the CR would do well in those rigs, which is usually where you see them anyway (big rigs) is that a fair statement?

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Re: Counter rotating props

Post by ShadowGrass Shooter »

I have really enjoyed my CR over the 3 1/2 years I've had it on. It has given me zero problems, and has helped get me out of some bad spots. I am pretty confident that my fuel effciency is higher with it on, although I have no quantified data to back that up...just comparing numbers with other big blocks and how they burn the juice.
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hmgm123
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Re: Counter rotating props

Post by hmgm123 »

The counter rotator is not always on a big boat. I seen a counter rotator belt driven on a 14ft Diamondback (JOKERS WILD). Bad arse looking boat. I bet the owner doesn't hardly ever take it out too. What a shame.


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Re: Counter rotating props

Post by rost495 »

Fuel economy... one has to think, now if its a guide or tour boat used daily its an issue, but otherwise its can be how I think of vehicles.... if I gain 5mpg is it worth it for the expenditure of a new vehicle?

I mean if you are talking 7000 for a rotator, and then add what, probably at least 3500 for a second set of blades.... 10,000.00 at 2.50 buys an additional....4000 gallons of fuel...

Just a side thought.

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Re: Counter rotating props

Post by CactusJack »

Airduds, you are correct, it is actually 'contra-'

I think the reason why contra props aren't used in more airboats, as covered already in previous posts, is cost, complication of construction, weight and size (area consumed in boat for power plant)

Add to this, the benefeit of going contra is less torque roll & prop steering (the boat doesn't try to do a 'U' turn when you gas it)

So, in the end, I think contra would come into its own on BIG boats (10+ seat tour boats...etc) but due to the cost to manufacture, for no REAL improvement on typical sport/ride boats, there is not really enough market. Unless you had won lotto, it would be hard to convince someone who can buy a stinger and a good prop for, say, $6k ish, to spend $13k on a contra box & 2 props & lose 18" - 2' of room in their boat would be near impossible.

The race dudes have proved, the right motor, the right prop/reduction is plenty fast enough.... the average ride airboaters have been using successfully single prop boats since Alexander Graham Bell started playing with aeroplane engines and boats.... and the ol' timers down south picked up and ran with them.... so the cost & complication isn't worth the little advantage (if any on a sport boat) they may give.

I personally, liken the contra boats like the 'Rolls Royce' of airboating.... more a statement of 'I have more money than you' or 'money is no object to me'.... they are great boats, but a well set up single is equally great IMO :wink:
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