Whats better an Engine Dyno or a Thrust Tester

Automotive powered airboat discussion.
flying fish
Site Supporter - II
Site Supporter - II
Posts: 1877
Joined: Thu Jun 21, 2007 11:09 pm
Location: Elkhart, Kansas

Re: Whats better an Engine Dyno or a Thrust Tester

Post by flying fish » Wed Jan 19, 2011 7:10 pm

cntry141iq wrote:427 yep .. 14 to 1 nope ... race fuel nope .. just call gto they got one for less than 10k with a two year warranty unlimite dhours
And with a 2 year unlimited hour warranty. Impressive. :)
15' DB - 6.2 LSA - 4 blade 82" R - 2.52 CH-4

User avatar
executioner496
Southern Airboat Member
Posts: 7
Joined: Tue Jan 18, 2011 6:11 pm

Re: Whats better an Engine Dyno or a Thrust Tester

Post by executioner496 » Wed Jan 19, 2011 7:48 pm

Im looking for some good input to help me make the best choice, i already have a motor, im not looking for an info mercial for gto engines. i need to know what is best for getting me around. thrust test or dyno sheet. please help me deside

User avatar
hmgm123
Site Supporter - III
Site Supporter - III
Posts: 3559
Joined: Mon Dec 05, 2005 11:03 pm
Location: PTSJ

Re: Whats better an Engine Dyno or a Thrust Tester

Post by hmgm123 » Wed Jan 19, 2011 7:54 pm

executioner496 wrote:Im looking for some good input to help me make the best choice, i already have a motor, im not looking for an info mercial for gto engines. i need to know what is best for getting me around. thrust test or dyno sheet. please help me deside
I recommend you get with Dan the airboat man. He has thrust tester that you drive your whole boat on and test and tune everything out. I think he almost done building it.

User avatar
yobee
Site Supporter - VIII
Site Supporter - VIII
Posts: 5819
Joined: Thu Sep 18, 2008 8:46 pm
Location: deltona, FL

Re: Whats better an Engine Dyno or a Thrust Tester

Post by yobee » Wed Jan 19, 2011 8:16 pm

executioner496 wrote:Im looking for some good input to help me make the best choice, i already have a motor, im not looking for an info mercial for gto engines. i need to know what is best for getting me around. thrust test or dyno sheet. please help me deside
"I need to know what is best for getting me around" Last I checked, thrust pushes the boat. If you want the most push, you want the most thrust. How much thrust does the dyno sheet of your engine show? Seems pretty simple to me.
Life is great, without it you'd be dead.
Volusia County Sportsmen's Conservation Association Member
http://lakeokeechobeeairboatassociation.org/
Continental powered Performance hull.

User avatar
Waterthunder
Site Supporter - VIII
Site Supporter - VIII
Posts: 8166
Joined: Fri Jan 21, 2005 3:16 pm
Location: Melbourne
Contact:

Re: Whats better an Engine Dyno or a Thrust Tester

Post by Waterthunder » Wed Jan 19, 2011 8:34 pm

executioner496 if you already have a motor prop and gearbox. Call me with what pitch and RPM your turning now and I can tell you where to set your prop to make the most peak thrust.
THE PROOF IS IN THE PROP!

"If you copy someone you will only achieve what has already been done."

http://waterthunder.com/
321-508-5316

poppey99
Southern Airboat Member
Posts: 7
Joined: Mon Jul 14, 2008 5:59 pm

Re: Whats better an Engine Dyno or a Thrust Tester

Post by poppey99 » Wed Jan 19, 2011 8:35 pm

I just don't under stand. I read this web site alot very good info. Waterthunder seems to really understand his motors with all the dyno testing. Prop testing, gearboxs testing and now thrust tester. I think we as airboaters give a ataboy for new tools to help performance on are boats. For years it has been a guessing game we need the dyno to know what the motor is and now with the thrust tester I can make a little ajustment and get 500# more thrust thats GREAT!

swampdragster
Southern Airboat Member
Posts: 1885
Joined: Sun Apr 26, 2009 10:13 am
Location: Reddick Fl. orange lake.
Contact:

Re: Whats better an Engine Dyno or a Thrust Tester

Post by swampdragster » Wed Jan 19, 2011 8:36 pm

I think if you take a GTO 427 with a dyno sheet and a 2 year warranty to water thunder and let him thrust test it on his tester we all might see what's up. :shock:
UNLIMITED SWAMPDRAGSTER DRIVER
QUICK SLICK on every dang thing!!!!

RiseAboveIt
Site Supporter - II
Site Supporter - II
Posts: 639
Joined: Thu Apr 16, 2009 10:50 pm
Location: Bushnell, Florida

Re: Whats better an Engine Dyno or a Thrust Tester

Post by RiseAboveIt » Wed Jan 19, 2011 8:39 pm

flying fish wrote:
muffled500hp wrote: What's going to be a better answer? If you tell him 590 horsepower and 600 foot lbs. torque, he's going to be impressed by that.
If we were talking 23 degree SBC'S, and someone asked me what it would take to make the above mentioned torque #, I would say from my (hands on) experience that it would take a 14 to 1 static compression 427 SBC, running on race fuel, and with at least an (as cast) 230cc intake runner with a 253/257 @.050 solid roller camshaft with .645" lift I&E on a 106c and in @ 102 to make the (above mentioned) airboat usable torque #.
And I would have to say you haven't built as many motors as Mike at MAS. JMO
No matter what happens... Just Rise Above It.

User avatar
hmgm123
Site Supporter - III
Site Supporter - III
Posts: 3559
Joined: Mon Dec 05, 2005 11:03 pm
Location: PTSJ

Re: Whats better an Engine Dyno or a Thrust Tester

Post by hmgm123 » Wed Jan 19, 2011 8:45 pm

RiseAboveIt wrote:
flying fish wrote:
muffled500hp wrote: What's going to be a better answer? If you tell him 590 horsepower and 600 foot lbs. torque, he's going to be impressed by that.
If we were talking 23 degree SBC'S, and someone asked me what it would take to make the above mentioned torque #, I would say from my (hands on) experience that it would take a 14 to 1 static compression 427 SBC, running on race fuel, and with at least an (as cast) 230cc intake runner with a 253/257 @.050 solid roller camshaft with .645" lift I&E on a 106c and in @ 102 to make the (above mentioned) airboat usable torque #.
And I would have to say you haven't built as many motors as Mike at MAS. JMO
Helll there a motor (417 cubic inch) now on the market that 700hp@6500rpm and 621Ftlb@5200rpm on 93 pump gas.

RiseAboveIt
Site Supporter - II
Site Supporter - II
Posts: 639
Joined: Thu Apr 16, 2009 10:50 pm
Location: Bushnell, Florida

Re: Whats better an Engine Dyno or a Thrust Tester

Post by RiseAboveIt » Wed Jan 19, 2011 8:47 pm

swampdragster wrote:I think if you take a GTO 427 with a dyno sheet and a 2 year warranty to water thunder and let him thrust test it on his tester we all might see what's up. :shock:
I was thinking the same thing.
No matter what happens... Just Rise Above It.

User avatar
grant
Site Supporter - VII
Site Supporter - VII
Posts: 3425
Joined: Sat Jul 29, 2006 12:03 pm
Location: Felda, Florida
Contact:

Re: Whats better an Engine Dyno or a Thrust Tester

Post by grant » Wed Jan 19, 2011 9:04 pm

Hell ... theoretically you can go fast enough to produce no thrust at all...go downhill fast enough and your prop will add rpm to your motor :D :D
"Don't Taze me Bro"

User avatar
Waterthunder
Site Supporter - VIII
Site Supporter - VIII
Posts: 8166
Joined: Fri Jan 21, 2005 3:16 pm
Location: Melbourne
Contact:

Re: Whats better an Engine Dyno or a Thrust Tester

Post by Waterthunder » Wed Jan 19, 2011 9:23 pm

This whole thread kinda speaks for itself. How the hell it ended up here I don't know. I guess speaking about technical things is no longer what this site is about.

And Old Blue you are correct we do have a in house dyno and an in house thrust tester.
Hey, Dave (waterthunder) I thought you had both a dyno and a thrust tester

I believe we are the only engine builders who do! So my posts are based on actual experience and what we have done. All of which is backed up with testing from ACTUAL experience. When a customer ask's which one is best for them I recommend the thrust tester every time. Their both great tools and have their place but only one helps you utilize the most out of your boats combination. And trust me I like playing on the engine dyno too. So I leave it up to our customer if they want us to optimize their thrust we do and if they want a dyno sheet telling them how much power their motor makes we do that too. I let the customer decide which one they want!
THE PROOF IS IN THE PROP!

"If you copy someone you will only achieve what has already been done."

http://waterthunder.com/
321-508-5316

flying fish
Site Supporter - II
Site Supporter - II
Posts: 1877
Joined: Thu Jun 21, 2007 11:09 pm
Location: Elkhart, Kansas

Re: Whats better an Engine Dyno or a Thrust Tester

Post by flying fish » Wed Jan 19, 2011 9:32 pm

RiseAboveIt wrote:
flying fish wrote:
muffled500hp wrote: What's going to be a better answer? If you tell him 590 horsepower and 600 foot lbs. torque, he's going to be impressed by that.
If we were talking 23 degree SBC'S, and someone asked me what it would take to make the above mentioned torque #, I would say from my (hands on) experience that it would take a 14 to 1 static compression 427 SBC, running on race fuel, and with at least an (as cast) 230cc intake runner with a 253/257 @.050 solid roller camshaft with .645" lift I&E on a 106c and in @ 102 to make the (above mentioned) airboat usable torque #.
And I would have to say you haven't built as many motors as Mike at MAS. JMO
Helped dyno the piece in my post. She was (legal) iron headed. Had .125" domed (illegal) piston w/64cc head. real nasty. :) Made 595 torque on the Waterbrake.

Pushed real hard for my buddy to buy the MAS 427 and he bit. Actually got there without sicking Anvil on him. He chose the 427 MAS over a 572 crate.
Buddy bought the 427 alluminum block version. Expecting to receive his MAS 427 any day.
Ought to go real nice with his 2.5 belt drive and 4 blade 80" R
15' DB - 6.2 LSA - 4 blade 82" R - 2.52 CH-4

rotator75
Site Supporter - III
Site Supporter - III
Posts: 387
Joined: Thu Jun 04, 2009 8:37 pm
Location: Oxford Ks

Re: Whats better an Engine Dyno or a Thrust Tester

Post by rotator75 » Wed Jan 19, 2011 10:36 pm

Hey fish whos boat are you helpn put that motor on ?

cntry141iq
Site Supporter - VI
Site Supporter - VI
Posts: 10136
Joined: Fri Sep 03, 2004 9:31 pm
Location: bradenton florida
Contact:

Re: Whats better an Engine Dyno or a Thrust Tester

Post by cntry141iq » Wed Jan 19, 2011 10:46 pm

sorry you didn't find the info posted in here enough to answer your question .. the answer was given ... sometimes threads go astray some times they go to the asstray ...

plainly put if you want to set everything based on thrust use a thrust tester ... if you wanna set everything based on engine power use a dyno .. bottom line power makes thrust and only power makes thrust .. so other than being able to say how much power you will say how much thrust unless you do both then you will know both answers .. and the formula we have spoken of in this thread will be clear as a bell ...
Don't waste your time ... it is the only thing you can't get more of
.. if it accidentally looks like I gave advice please ignore it .. and notify me immediately

flying fish
Site Supporter - II
Site Supporter - II
Posts: 1877
Joined: Thu Jun 21, 2007 11:09 pm
Location: Elkhart, Kansas

Re: Whats better an Engine Dyno or a Thrust Tester

Post by flying fish » Wed Jan 19, 2011 10:52 pm

I am not helping. 427 going on the Red Glaserranger in ponca.
15' DB - 6.2 LSA - 4 blade 82" R - 2.52 CH-4

rotator75
Site Supporter - III
Site Supporter - III
Posts: 387
Joined: Thu Jun 04, 2009 8:37 pm
Location: Oxford Ks

Re: Whats better an Engine Dyno or a Thrust Tester

Post by rotator75 » Wed Jan 19, 2011 11:00 pm

cool sounds like a nice piece.

Rich Andrews
Site Supporter - IV
Site Supporter - IV
Posts: 6798
Joined: Wed Jun 15, 2005 9:20 pm

Re: Whats better an Engine Dyno or a Thrust Tester

Post by Rich Andrews » Wed Jan 19, 2011 11:49 pm

grant wrote:Hell ... theoretically you can go fast enough to produce no thrust at all...go downhill fast enough and your prop will add rpm to your motor :D :D
Louisiana swamp water gettin to you I see :drunken:
I'll have my Manatee burger medium please...just say NObama

14x8 deckover FELBER 397ci.. HP ???..just stay back!!

LOHA is AHOL backwards

User avatar
HuntingBigun
Site Supporter - VIII
Site Supporter - VIII
Posts: 6272
Joined: Mon Jan 07, 2008 11:39 pm
Location: Plant City, FL
Contact:

Re: Whats better an Engine Dyno or a Thrust Tester

Post by HuntingBigun » Wed Jan 19, 2011 11:55 pm

I tell you guys it is hard for the OP to get a simple answer on engine anything on SA , I am just a dumb country boy but seems like any engine thread ends up in the same ole pissing contest. That is why I used the phone this time 3 years ago asked same question and got great info without all the repetive posting

SO for the record since I own a WT, bought a new MAST my 2 cents is talk to the builders and draw your own conclusion. Dave DYno my motor and if I built another one with him we would dyno that one also no big deal, on the otherhand I love to strap my new rig on Daves thrust tester would be nice to have both.

But in the end THE BOAT WILL TELL YA WHAT YOU GOT, PROP WILL TELL YOU HSP AND GPS WILL TELL YOU IF THE COMPLETE PACKAGE WORKED, I seen crappy motor could not turn a prop on 1 but ran like a angel due to a great hull, reverse applies.

I am thankful for all the help Keith, Dave, Mike (mas), Panther, Mast & Bobby gave me helping me make up my mind on picking my next motor and you can see why some of those guys would never answer a post like this.

:violent1: :violent1: :violent1: :violent1: :violent1: carry on, more fun to battle Dusty in photoshop hehehe
Bigun

http://www.krvsa.com

http://krvsa.com/product/airboat-raffle-tickets/


Click for pics = http://www.flickr.com/photos/huntingbigun/

Killin Time 15.6 Diamondback Deckover Mast 808 Hp SC LS 7 /KRVSA /NRA

Rich Andrews
Site Supporter - IV
Site Supporter - IV
Posts: 6798
Joined: Wed Jun 15, 2005 9:20 pm

Re: Whats better an Engine Dyno or a Thrust Tester

Post by Rich Andrews » Thu Jan 20, 2011 12:03 am

I still prefer the boat ramp dyno myself :lol:
I'll have my Manatee burger medium please...just say NObama

14x8 deckover FELBER 397ci.. HP ???..just stay back!!

LOHA is AHOL backwards

C1gator
Site Supporter - II
Site Supporter - II
Posts: 2245
Joined: Mon Jan 07, 2008 8:01 pm
Location: Williston, Florida

Re: Whats better an Engine Dyno or a Thrust Tester

Post by C1gator » Thu Jan 20, 2011 9:41 am

Rich Andrews wrote:I still prefer the boat ramp dyno myself :lol:
You hit the nail on the head right there brother....I think the real trick is to not have a dyno or put it on the Thrust tester....Make it look good with a nasty cam, tell everyone how bad it is and never take it out in public unless it is on a week day....Be sure to get lots of pictures and post em up regularly....IT's like our fearless leader, you tell enough people enough lies enough times and soon u will have a faithful following of blind Mules, and a 700 horse small block.....On a serious note, If a builder, be it Dave or Mass or Mast is making on honest attempt to show you what u r purchasing, rather than just blowing smoke up your arse and throwing out a number, then u have to respect that.....I think Keith at GTO is a good business man and is trying to give the customers what they want and what they pay for...Having said that, I think Dave is doing the same darn thing...So if in their minds they are being honest and trying to do right by people, then what more could anyone ask.....This IMO goes for all the major manufactures....Really doesn't seem like the industry has a lot of tolerence for folks that are dishonest.....These folks are pro's and we are blessed to have them all....IMO....Sorry for getting off topic on the original question, seems like any post that has to do with engines/builders/thrust/or performance ends up like this....Good luck partner.... NOW HAVING SAID ALL THAT, I WOULD LIKE TO POSE A QUESTION.....IF I REMEMBER CORRECTLY, SOME MACHINE SHOPS AND I BELIEVE THE GMPP WEBSITE HAS A PLUG AND PLAY WHERE U INTERCHANGE CAMS, ROCKERS, AND A FEW OTHER PARTS....THIS SUPPOSEDELY GIVES YOU AN ACCURATE ACCOUNT OF HOW ANY GIVEN MOTOR MAKES ITS STEAM, AND WHERE IT MAKES IT'S STEAM AT....What is yalls opinion on this and are those things half a$$ accurate? Always wondered about those things.....thanks

User avatar
grant
Site Supporter - VII
Site Supporter - VII
Posts: 3425
Joined: Sat Jul 29, 2006 12:03 pm
Location: Felda, Florida
Contact:

Re: Whats better an Engine Dyno or a Thrust Tester

Post by grant » Thu Jan 20, 2011 10:21 am

Rich Andrews wrote:
grant wrote:Hell ... theoretically you can go fast enough to produce no thrust at all...go downhill fast enough and your prop will add rpm to your motor :D :D
Louisiana swamp water gettin to you I see :drunken:
Naw just trying to make people think....I wasn't disagreeing with Waterthunder as he so quickly assumed. I actually understand where he is coming from, he just always seems to state his case with no room for movement in either direction. You block enough airflow and it will become impossible to overcome with pitch adjustment. As WT often says "it's simple physics" otherwise spaceships would probably have propellers :D :D
Maximum thrust is a worthy goal and while probably attainable with old fashion trial and error...I gotta say the thrust tester is the tool to get there quicker. I think most of us set up our boats to accomplish a certain task....maximum thrust is probably not where you run at. It all changes when your boat moves, hell it even changes with the weather and altitude :shock:
What I said about speed and thrust is factual, at least there is a lot of mathematical formulas that seem to prove it and if you fly you can put a plane in a dive and see it for yourself.
"Don't Taze me Bro"

Rich Andrews
Site Supporter - IV
Site Supporter - IV
Posts: 6798
Joined: Wed Jun 15, 2005 9:20 pm

Re: Whats better an Engine Dyno or a Thrust Tester

Post by Rich Andrews » Thu Jan 20, 2011 10:32 am

When you pull up to camp 5 in the middle of summer what gets you off the hill,thrust or HP :lol:

BTW, warp drives are outdated Grant :mrgreen: you need to unlock those hidden ponies in that 540 of yours and get you some r Blades
I'll have my Manatee burger medium please...just say NObama

14x8 deckover FELBER 397ci.. HP ???..just stay back!!

LOHA is AHOL backwards

User avatar
grant
Site Supporter - VII
Site Supporter - VII
Posts: 3425
Joined: Sat Jul 29, 2006 12:03 pm
Location: Felda, Florida
Contact:

Re: Whats better an Engine Dyno or a Thrust Tester

Post by grant » Thu Jan 20, 2011 10:46 am

Rich Andrews wrote:When you pull up to camp 5 in the middle of summer what gets you off the hill,thrust or HP :lol:

BTW, warp drives are outdated Grant :mrgreen: you need to unlock those hidden ponies in that 540 of yours and get you some r Blades
MAXIMUM DYNAMIC BULLSH%T ON THE RIGHT HULL!!

Hidden ponies ain't a bad thing :D Besides my ponies are probably deaf for years of toting a warp drive probably sleep right thru them Rs....unless the vibration woke them up :D
"Don't Taze me Bro"

User avatar
red_neck191218
Southern Airboat Member
Posts: 200
Joined: Mon Jun 08, 2009 3:35 pm

Re: Whats better an Engine Dyno or a Thrust Tester

Post by red_neck191218 » Thu Jan 20, 2011 1:24 pm

Anyone that knows how a dyno works should know a thrust tester is a dyno it just uses air as resistance instead of water. If Dave or someone else with a thrust tester used the same gearbox and prop combo and calibrated it then tested every single engine you could give the same exact print out a water dyno would. The fact that you can change the variables (Gearbox, prop, etc.) shows that a thrust tester is a more valuable and useful tool.

Post Reply

Return to “Automotive Power Only”