Hey! 454/489 BBC DD?

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Wild Bill
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Hey! 454/489 BBC DD?

Post by Wild Bill » Wed Feb 29, 2012 9:33 pm

So like I said I wanted something smaller seeing that my hull has a wicked hook so it's going to be a 13 to 14 x 8 BBC 489 direct drive with peanut ports and whatever cam. I have all the parts sitting here other than the rotating assy and cam. Scat kit cast crank, I beam rods and forged pistons, balanced and harmonic balancer and flex plate for $1500 and extra $100 premium forged pistons. (don't know brands at this time)

Or I could spend another $600 on a 4.375" stroke with H beam and forged crank?

Or there is a 2000 7.4 I can get for $650, I don't know if FI intake come with it yet

Ticked me off 3 weeks ago I chucked the stock marine for scrap, so it gets a Weiand peanut port manifold and a Holley 600 DP.

Planning for a light little 13-14', conduit cage,

Whisper tip or Saber? 72" or 74"

strong enough for NOS?

If it runs good I want to build another similar so low budget/most amount of fun.

Opinions, Cams? ETC!
Last edited by Wild Bill on Sat Mar 03, 2012 6:12 pm, edited 3 times in total.

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Wild Bill
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Re: Hey! 454 BBC DD?

Post by Wild Bill » Thu Mar 01, 2012 2:16 pm

Well.. looks like super budget build with a $600 7.4L

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Re: Hey! 454 BBC DD?

Post by Striker543 » Thu Mar 01, 2012 8:41 pm

I would guess that there isn't much info on this since the caddy's are a similar weight and such a popular DD choice. Hope it works out!

Not too late to go caddy...

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Wild Bill
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Re: Hey! 454 BBC DD?

Post by Wild Bill » Thu Mar 01, 2012 8:44 pm

So has anybody tried this particular direct drive setup yet? I figure I wanna see if I can get this boat together for $3500
The stock engine produces 290 hp (216 kW) at 4000 rpm and 440 lb·ft (597 N·m) at 3200 rpm. $600 however the guy pulled it apart on anticipation of a stroker and went LS instead but everything is there.. pushrods, lifters, tin etc. (guy has some nice other stuff too)

I could probably use that to my advantage and deck the block for higher compression and tighter squish with those heads. It's lighter than the Mk IV. If i have regrets later I can use that to my advantage when I throw a stroker in it but no negative issues. so yeah it might get only rings and bearings. Freshen up the seats and a set of good enough stainless valves would be the most. Advance the cam even a touch more? the stock roller should work or what would be better?

As far as hull I'm going back to that Marsh Riders issue with the plywood boats. If it works nice i'll do a mold of it and if not I'll build the next design. Multi chine, steer more like a boat.

It's getting a tilt /trim device like Zoom Zoom. I am in possession of a couple electric linear actuators that I will do poly swivels on the back and then build a cradle of some sort and I have 4" travel. They weigh about 20LBS but solid, simple and reliable.

Probably single rear double bucket front.

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Wild Bill
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Re: Hey! 454 BBC DD?

Post by Wild Bill » Fri Mar 02, 2012 8:39 pm

There's a 455 Olds around.. Just that 454 BBC is so cheap right now. bare 2 bolt blocks going for $100.

However the Vortec 7400 L29 already has a pretty useable roller cam and nice heads for the application. Kick butt huge crank with rear thrust to not break in half. Wish this one had intake and I would FI, might keep my eyes open. Holley 600 DP. See what the deck height is and if can't make better with decking it would just have to go 489 but once I SEE i WILL MAKE UP MY MIND 454 OR 489.

489 Mk IV on the scale today I figure 650 Lbs for the Steel engine with header and engine oil. L29 heads are like half the height of the MK IV heads, it's gotta weigh less.

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Re: Hey! 454 BBC DD?

Post by Striker543 » Fri Mar 02, 2012 8:52 pm

Good luck, man! I'm starting the modifications for the new (to me) caddy this weekend.

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Re: Hey! 454 BBC DD?

Post by Wild Bill » Fri Mar 02, 2012 11:00 pm

It could end up 4.25 or 4.375 right off the bat however it would be interesting what it would do stock you have to admit. Put it back together and see how it works an always there can be more stroke in the future. Might just put together with original rings and bearings and see what it does. It would be like the price of a gasket set to try it out.

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Re: Hey! 454 BBC DD?

Post by Wild Bill » Fri Mar 02, 2012 11:15 pm

Prop for 2 blade DD .. : ) patti!

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Re: Hey! 454 BBC DD?

Post by watersports7 » Sat Mar 03, 2012 6:25 am

454 BBC direct drive, take a look at JWarren 86's photos in the gallery. Pretty impressive to say the least. :thumbleft: Patti at Whirlwind will take good care of ya.
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Perfectly said by Lycoming: Some engines purr like kittens. These roar!

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Re: Hey! 489 BBC DD?

Post by Wild Bill » Sat Mar 03, 2012 11:36 am

Thanks Watersports7, It's nice to know it can be successful.

The guy can't find the camshaft and oil pan... Makes putting a 4.25" crank in the block I have a more economical solution.
But I do like the L29 heads. How would e-bay aluminum heads work for torque? I have a set of good peanut ports, 1 L29 head,
a line on a rebuilt set of L29 heads.

Someone was talking about a longer prop hub, who makes/sells them?
Last edited by Wild Bill on Sat Mar 03, 2012 12:57 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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Re: Hey! 454 BBC DD?

Post by Propsheer » Sat Mar 03, 2012 12:56 pm

I gotta 14 x 8 boat with a stock 454 dd.It swings a 74x44 carbon tip sensnitch at 2950.Halls 4 people and gear fairly well.With two people it will run a little dry but u better be lookin for a wet spot soon.I got a lot of downed reviews when I talked about going to BBC on my dd boat.It works fine.It's not gonna smoke the hill but it will get you boating
14' fg 500 caddy twisting a rotator 2:12 and 3 maximus blades

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Re: Hey! 489 BBC DD?

Post by Wild Bill » Sat Mar 03, 2012 1:48 pm

well I'm starting too feel less crazy... thanks Propsheer!

Found a really good article from Car Craft. torque vs Horsepower. The info is like Waterthunder opinions!
http://www.carcraft.com/techarticles/ho ... index.html

He found the cam and oil pan, back on assemble the 7.4 L hone and Total seal rings, maby deck. See how it does!

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Re: Hey! 454/489 BBC DD?

Post by Wild Bill » Thu Mar 08, 2012 9:39 pm

Sure seems to be a lot more threads regarding Direct drive builds and questions lately.. Economy? Well I figure it would be about $3500 to $4000 less than running a box and really hoping I can get similar economy numbers like crowhater posted. Most of the time running dry is a testosterone thing for me, I can do it so I gotta show you I can do it and I don't like the hull maintenance. I haven't herd back from the Gen 6 guy.. can't find oil pan.. trying to get cam back so on, So I have a studded Mk IV block here and like I said a fresh set of peanut ports so I have decided on either a scat 1-91350-BE or 1-91360-BE short rod (6.135") 4.25" flat top stroker for 489 CID. I know... About .050" shorter stroke than a caddy with 60 lbs more. can't justify or afford 4.375 arm.

First of all does anybody know what the difference is between Scat's regular forged pistons and their premium forged? What pistons they are using? What would be the best bet? Heavy load/low rpm best detonation resistance as well as NOS in the future.

I haven't cc'd the heads but they are supposed to be about 113 cc. If I deck it for a nice quench at -.005 it should be about 9/1 compression ratio. For a cam I'm thinking Comp XR252HR, not a custom grind but I think most of the attributes Waterthunder preached. http://www.compcams.com/Company/CC/cam- ... d=439&sb=2

Top it off with a Weiand peanut port intake http://www.holley.com/8122C.asp and a Holley 600 dp..

Well you know I'm nut's at this point so 72 2 bl Whisper tip or 3 bl narrow Whisper tip?

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Re: Hey! 454/489 BBC DD?

Post by cntry141iq » Fri Mar 09, 2012 8:15 am

either prop will be fine ... three blade narrow holds back same as two blade 72 whispertip model does. One guy on here is going three narrow so he can have the hub to upgrade to box or belt reduction in future and just have to buy blades .. actually a smart choice if you know you are going to upgrade ...
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Re: Hey! 454/489 BBC DD?

Post by Wild Bill » Fri Mar 09, 2012 8:10 pm

So. any guesses as to HP and Torque?

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Re: Hey! 454/489 BBC DD?

Post by cntry141iq » Fri Mar 09, 2012 8:28 pm

Bill you are pretty smart on that stuff .. and you know that building it from scratch you can do the correct cam and heads and intake runners and make that baby shine down low in the rpm range ...
Don't waste your time ... it is the only thing you can't get more of
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Re: Hey! 454/489 BBC DD?

Post by Wild Bill » Fri Mar 09, 2012 9:20 pm

Can I beat a caddy though?

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Re: Hey! 454/489 BBC DD?

Post by cntry141iq » Fri Mar 09, 2012 11:31 pm

probably not ... caddy was designed by GM to be a torque monster down low at 3000 rpms .. but there is always the first time ...
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Re: Hey! 454/489 BBC DD?

Post by Wild Bill » Sat Mar 10, 2012 12:04 am

I'm thinking my Main disadvantage is .050" stroke. Unless i spend another $500 and beat the caddy arm by another .025 other than weight considering cheap part's availability it should be a pretty good alternative. 60 Lbs is probably the difference between me and lots of you. It would be inexpensive to go from a DD BBC to a 5400 RPM Box engine. It's got a fr Ken huge strong crank with a rear thrust. I know there are a lot of caddy guys that just replace the timing chain, how is there performance compared to a built caddy or BBC? 8 miles to the gallon would be cool! I don't know how I will feel about SNAP. I don't know what the engine will react like when I stomp on the gas and want power because with the last set-up if you pulled the rudder and stomped the gas you stopped and were going the other direction. However on that note I would like the next one to steer more like a boat.

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Re: Hey! 454/489 BBC DD?

Post by cntry141iq » Sat Mar 10, 2012 12:10 am

you can't get a corvette for the price of a beetle bug LOL

DD is a compromise and once you have tasted the poison apple of reduction .. you are screwed LOL
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Re: Hey! 454/489 BBC DD?

Post by Wild Bill » Sat Mar 10, 2012 10:48 pm

So I guess I have to think other that a couple hundred pounds a 0470 or gpu should run about the same as a Caddy 470 or 500? Purpose built BBC 454 or 489 should mimic a O470 or challenge a 0540? So what I am gathering if you don't have reduction you wont experience the thrill what I expect as normal running a 2.68 489? a direct drive no matter if it's a aircraft engine or car engine isn't going to perform like I EXPECT IT TO. I WANT 2 BOATS, I WOULD LIKE BETTER FUEL ECONOMY,I treasure the thought of simplicity, However while I want a lighter boat and better fuel economy I don't know If I could live without what I have gotten used to. .. I don't think a mini is going to cut it.. nor a dd

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Re: Hey! 454/489 BBC DD?

Post by Gas4blood » Sat Mar 10, 2012 11:06 pm

Dont let em beat you down. Im helping on a 13' round bottom with a 454dd setup. 3 people seating. The only catch is that boat has a 22" transom. Its deep and its gonna need to be

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Re: Hey! 454/489 BBC DD?

Post by Wild Bill » Sat Mar 10, 2012 11:21 pm

I think I have to start building my hull and get my head around what i'm going to do. Guy selling a rotating asy that fits in my block, forged gm nitrated crank, arp bolt, fresh re-sized rods, forged pistons however domed. 10.5/1 engine with the head I have but I could put the engine together for $1000

stripped out the old hull today,punched up 1" 3 feet from the back under the fuel tank. Bent the fuel tank, hope to cut the fuel tank in half and weld up for 2 16 gal tanks for new boats.

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Re: Hey! 454/489 BBC DD?

Post by airduds » Sun Mar 11, 2012 1:32 am

Only two reasons to run a dd carmotor on an airboat. Can't afford a gearbox,...... and i won't say the second one.
Hard times create strong men. Strong men create good times. Good times create weak men. Weak men create hard times.

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Re: Hey! 454/489 BBC DD?

Post by cntry141iq » Sun Mar 11, 2012 9:56 am

LOL wildbill I certainly aint beatin on ya ... a DD a/c will spin up quick for sure .. but it is built to do it .. has lots of cubic inches and torque .. so if you can build a big cubic inch V8 with torque like a a/c engine and ya put it on a light boat .. you should be good to go ... people been trying to do it for many years .. haven't seen one yet .. but seen some that are close to it ...
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