Rotator gear boxes

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DynaMarine
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Re: Rotator gear boxes

Post by DynaMarine » Sun Dec 07, 2014 11:34 am

Yeah I'd tend to agree with you on that. Race boats don't have the constant loading and unloading a ride boat sees. Definitely more variables and stress factors in a ride boat application that race.

What I meant by strength is what you said, HP. I think all the boxes are rated well beyond what a ride boat would put to it, so it's really hard to back up a statement regarding each ones "strength". Hard to put a durability or reliability rating to a box as it's pretty difficult to calculate or measure that kind of data outside of an hour meter. I think you could measure efficiency but that a whole different pot to stir :stirpot:

IMO I think all the boxes would be within 10-15% of each other and Ballistic and Ox being closer due to them both using AGMA 12-14 gear sets which would be stronger than the commercial cut gears you'd find in a typical Stinger or Rotator. Although I heard thru the grapevine that Rotator was going to, or have gone to, ground polished gear sets to reduce noise.

We want to talk about strength, lets get down to brass tax. In simplest terms, helical gears are stronger than spur cut. So all things equal (gear width, size, tooth count) a helical gear will be stronger than a spur cut gear. Here's why. A spur cut gear can only achieve a maximum contact ratio of 1.2-1.9. What this number represents is the number of teeth that are in mesh at any given time. Now helical gears commonly see anywhere from 2.2 - 4+ at any given time. A helical gear is capable of having twice as many teeth in mesh at any given time over a spur cut gear.

Spur cut gears are however more efficient because the don't have the axial thrust loads that a helical gear does. Whole other topic there.

IMO, they are all great gearboxes and have their benefits. Brian has definitely done a stand up job turning around Ox Drives and nobody can say any different. If we as manufacturers don't continue to improve we'll be playing catch up to the guys that are. EVERY manufacture of boats, gearboxes & belt drives and props has had some failure of some sort failure, its all on how it's dealt with I suppose.

So since we're talking Generations of gearboxes, I can say the same. Since we started making the latest gen. gearbox we've had ZERO failures. Now I haven't put 99 of the newest boxes out like Ox, only 56...guess time will tell.

Looking forward to seeing you guys up here for Thunder on the Loup. Hamant, WT & Ox is a combo that's set the bar high and should be even better racing and riding than last year as long as the weather plays along!
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Re: Rotator gear boxes

Post by Tony480 » Sun Dec 07, 2014 11:59 am

But how many of those gen2 ballistics came back because they sounded like 2 skeletons phucking in a closet?

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Re: Rotator gear boxes

Post by DynaMarine » Sun Dec 07, 2014 12:57 pm

Tony480 wrote:But how many of those gen2 ballistics came back because they sounded like 2 skeletons phucking in a closet?
Those were Gen 1 gearboxes with the commercial cut gears like a Stinger...probably 15 of 60-70 boxes I ended up swapping gears out for new ones. We did the Gen 2 gearboxes that had a ground polished pinion and cut drive gear, that helped...only had maybe 5 or 6 of those out of another 60 run set that were a little loud once the gears run in, but not as loud as some of the Gen 1 boxes. Now out of the latest Gen we went to both AGMA 12 gears and had zero "loud" gearboxes. Only made 50+ of those but so far so good. Only time will tell.
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Re: Rotator gear boxes

Post by Tony480 » Sun Dec 07, 2014 1:51 pm

Well i don't know about most people...but I tend to look at what all the big name builders sell...and I know Hamant, and D Back both sell OX drive and stingers.

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Re: Rotator gear boxes

Post by sidejobs » Sun Dec 07, 2014 2:43 pm

Gearboxes :lol:
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Re: Rotator gear boxes

Post by DynaMarine » Sun Dec 07, 2014 7:59 pm

Tony480 wrote:Well i don't know about most people...but I tend to look at what all the big name builders sell...and I know Hamant, and D Back both sell OX drive and stingers.
Well you don't think they are going to buy gearboxes from another manufacturer who also builds boat do you? Ecotec box might change that a little, but....I doubt it LOL
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Re: Rotator gear boxes

Post by Tony480 » Sun Dec 07, 2014 8:19 pm

They use to sell rotator....back before the OX came along...now there's no need to throw good money at a bad thing.

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Re: Rotator gear boxes

Post by DynaMarine » Sun Dec 07, 2014 9:42 pm

Tony480 wrote:They use to sell rotator....back before the OX came along...now there's no need to throw good money at a bad thing.
To each their own man, to each their own...
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Re: Rotator gear boxes

Post by bonecollector » Mon Dec 08, 2014 12:37 am

I gotta be honest I never had any problems with Ballistic gear boxes when I was selling them. I have one get a little chatter in it and Shane sent a replacement right away. That being said Brian is a lot closer to me and as far as I can tell the new Ox boxes are smoother and quitter than any other box I have sold. I haven't used a gen2 ballistic so I can't comment on those. And this is just my opinion
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Re: Rotator gear boxes

Post by ptillman » Mon Dec 08, 2014 1:18 am

I can tell you that my Rotator has about 50 hrs on it now and is very quiet. I guess it is all in the tolerances of the set up, and I got a good one.
2014 14x8 JB Hull,421 SBC, Rotator 2.68:1, 82" NGR
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13' Hamant, 383 Chevy, Blue Lightning Drive, 80" R 3 Blade (SOLD)

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Re: Rotator gear boxes

Post by counterrotator » Mon Dec 08, 2014 9:01 am

the new rotators have not been sold yet

on that note new ones that we have been testing are silent we are happy with them!!
prices are staying the same and will be selling jan 1st

im not commenting anymore on this topic because of how it always turns into argueing if you have any questions just contact me at panther "danny" or private message me an i can give you all info needed!!

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Re: Rotator gear boxes

Post by DynaMarine » Mon Dec 08, 2014 9:47 am

counterrotator wrote:the new rotators have not been sold yet

on that note new ones that we have been testing are silent we are happy with them!!
prices are staying the same and will be selling jan 1st

im not commenting anymore on this topic because of how it always turns into argueing if you have any questions just contact me at panther "danny" or private message me an i can give you all info needed!!
I think it was Helms who told me the new ones we're much quieter. It's always nice to see everyone for the most part continuing to improve and evolve and evolve products within the airboat industry. :thumbleft: :thumbleft: :thumbleft: to the Panther team, nicely done Danny...made a solid proven product even better!
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Re: Rotator gear boxes

Post by Cmcintosh721 » Mon Dec 08, 2014 11:44 am

Well I ended up ordering a new stinger 2.68

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Re: Rotator gear boxes

Post by Waterthunder » Mon Dec 08, 2014 12:28 pm

Leave it to Wade to bring out some facts.

An unlimited boat is the easiest thing on a gearbox. 4 seconds of hard running at a 100% and of all the loads are in one direction. The turning loads are the toughest, this is why you see DD's break crankshafts so much. The hardest thing on a gearbox are 180's and 360's and getting on and off a throttle. All three are never done in a unlimited boat (on purpose atleast)

All threse gearboxes have their pluses and minuses. Pick one and I can tell you something good and something bad about it. The only thing bad about an OX is they are expensive but right now I feel they are the best box out there and without a doubt the quietest. I have ran a Rotator, Stinger and a OX in unlimited with Zero failures. Hell I even ran a clutch on a Rotator over a decade ago and to my shock I couldn't break it. Them Rotators are tough as nails, loud but tough as nails. I use to hold the motor at 6,500 RPM's and dump the clutch ZERO problems. My favorite quite combo is a OX with a NGR, OMG this set up is so quite you can hear water pump and alternator bearings howling. Everytime we test this combo I hear stuff you never hear with any other box because the gearbox drowns every other sound out.
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Re: Rotator gear boxes

Post by Rich Andrews » Mon Dec 08, 2014 3:56 pm

which one makes more HP? Or should I say takes away less HP?
I'll have my Manatee burger medium please...just say NObama

14x8 deckover FELBER 397ci.. HP ???..just stay back!!

LOHA is AHOL backwards

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Re: Rotator gear boxes

Post by Rich Andrews » Mon Dec 08, 2014 3:59 pm

I'll wager to say this is the best gearbox on the market

Image
I'll have my Manatee burger medium please...just say NObama

14x8 deckover FELBER 397ci.. HP ???..just stay back!!

LOHA is AHOL backwards

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Re: Rotator gear boxes

Post by dodobird » Mon Dec 08, 2014 4:02 pm

is there a link to that gearbox id like to read bout that? looks cool
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Re: Rotator gear boxes

Post by Tony480 » Mon Dec 08, 2014 4:10 pm

That's a psru for aircraft.

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Re: Rotator gear boxes

Post by Rich Andrews » Mon Dec 08, 2014 4:40 pm

all u got to do is ask Tony. BTW, they have put them on other applications it is not only for aircraft,but you better have big bucks to buy one. 20k
I'll have my Manatee burger medium please...just say NObama

14x8 deckover FELBER 397ci.. HP ???..just stay back!!

LOHA is AHOL backwards

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Re: Rotator gear boxes

Post by Rich Andrews » Mon Dec 08, 2014 4:50 pm

I'll have my Manatee burger medium please...just say NObama

14x8 deckover FELBER 397ci.. HP ???..just stay back!!

LOHA is AHOL backwards

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Re: Rotator gear boxes

Post by Rich Andrews » Mon Dec 08, 2014 4:53 pm

Rich Andrews wrote:which one makes more HP? Or should I say takes away less HP?
Like to know this one?
I'll have my Manatee burger medium please...just say NObama

14x8 deckover FELBER 397ci.. HP ???..just stay back!!

LOHA is AHOL backwards

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Re: Rotator gear boxes

Post by sidejobs » Mon Dec 08, 2014 6:48 pm

Rich Andrews wrote:
Rich Andrews wrote:which one makes more HP? Or should I say takes away less HP?
Like to know this one?
This has been beat to death. Use the search function. You'll find lots of goodies about denying it as a power adder and much more lol :stirpot:
And for the record who cares ? Example my engine in dd form is turning a 72" prop.....add a gear box and spin an 82" with ease. The torque is multiplied so much who cares how much hp loss there is ???? Ummm the torque gained is much more important here.
However instead of asking how much hp is gained or lost maybe you ment which one is more efficient ?
I'm certain you would find they are all real close.
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