556hp LSA vs. 600hp 418 Water Thunder

Automotive powered airboat discussion.
Post Reply
Oilfield Trash
Southern Airboat Member
Posts: 73
Joined: Thu Mar 07, 2013 4:33 pm
Location: Cocoa

Re: 556hp LSA vs. 600hp 418 Water Thunder

Post by Oilfield Trash »

blackwaterairboats wrote: Diggin's boat is tuned by Marine Power so there isn't anything he can do about the tone.
You sure about that?? It's crazy how Blown has the same motor, been in his MEFI making changes after new injectors, pulley, etc.., and he's making almost 700 hp...

User avatar
digginfool
Site Supporter - III
Site Supporter - III
Posts: 2740
Joined: Wed Jun 05, 2013 3:00 pm
Location: South Florida

Re: 556hp LSA vs. 600hp 418 Water Thunder

Post by digginfool »

Oilfield Trash wrote:
blackwaterairboats wrote: Diggin's boat is tuned by Marine Power so there isn't anything he can do about the tone.
You sure about that?? It's crazy how Blown has the same motor, been in his MEFI making changes after new injectors, pulley, etc.., and he's making almost 700 hp...
I would like to know how. My understanding with anything above MEFI 4 is that you cannot make changes; the codes are locked and you must have the password (which the distributor is not going to give you) to access them. What I have heard is the only way to make the changes is to erase the ECM and re-program it. Of course, that would instantly void the 2 year warranty that Marine Power offers not to mention being at the mercy of the individual who writes the program you install. One of the things that make the LSA so reliable is the multiple layers of protection from oil pressure and temp to knock sensors. Those layers may not be there with a reprogram and now those 'silly' hypereutectic pistons become a huge liability. Do correct me if I am wrong because it would be nice to know what can and cannot be done with this generation of MEFI.
“When plunder becomes a way of life for a group of men living together in society, they create for themselves in the course of time a legal system that authorizes it and a moral code that glorifies it” - Bastiat

User avatar
HuntingBigun
Site Supporter - VIII
Site Supporter - VIII
Posts: 6273
Joined: Mon Jan 07, 2008 11:39 pm
Location: Plant City, FL
Contact:

Re: 556hp LSA vs. 600hp 418 Water Thunder

Post by HuntingBigun »

blackwaterairboats wrote:Bigun I will follow you anywhere you want to go. Anyone that has seen my boat or has riding on it will tell you the same thing. I will be up there definitely for a week thanksgiving and I will run any hill or anywhere you take me with my whole family on board and then some. I hope you can fine me a spot to get stuck because I haven't found it yet. What happen after the airboat show? You all took off up north because there wasn't hardly any water but I still took my tub all the way to the tower running and stopping on dry and in mud. That day my boat was loaded down also.

Yep went north, I was not interested in scratching up my new boat on rocks, you can do what you want with yours, I know the spot that get us both stuck, you first :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: wicked little cove off Hatch, stopped on dry ground man that is impressive and then to run in the mud :shock: Amazing :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: back to OP

Anyway as the OP can see most of us are passionate about the engine we run on our boat, so no wrong choice of the two you asked about, good luck with your build :salute:
Bigun

http://www.krvsa.com


Click for pics = http://www.flickr.com/photos/huntingbigun/

Killin Time 15.6 Diamondback Deckover Mast 808 Hp SC LS 7 /KRVSA /NRA

User avatar
Blown
Southern Airboat Member
Posts: 96
Joined: Tue Jun 03, 2014 10:49 pm
Location: Williston, Florida

Re: 556hp LSA vs. 600hp 418 Water Thunder

Post by Blown »

digginfool wrote:
Oilfield Trash wrote:
blackwaterairboats wrote: Diggin's boat is tuned by Marine Power so there isn't anything he can do about the tone.
You sure about that?? It's crazy how Blown has the same motor, been in his MEFI making changes after new injectors, pulley, etc.., and he's making almost 700 hp...
I would like to know how. My understanding with anything above MEFI 4 is that you cannot make changes; the codes are locked and you must have the password (which the distributor is not going to give you) to access them. What I have heard is the only way to make the changes is to erase the ECM and re-program it. Of course, that would instantly void the 2 year warranty that Marine Power offers not to mention being at the mercy of the individual who writes the program you install. One of the things that make the LSA so reliable is the multiple layers of protection from oil pressure and temp to knock sensors. Those layers may not be there with a reprogram and now those 'silly' hypereutectic pistons become a huge liability. Do correct me if I am wrong because it would be nice to know what can and cannot be done with this generation of MEFI.
You have been GROSSLY misinformed. Only true part in all that is about warranty. I tune my own boat MEFI5, all safety parameters are intact. I have a 700hp to wheels 5th gen Camaro I also tune, run mid 10's in the 1/4 with a manual tranny.
2012 Diamaondback 15x8 Powered by LSA with 2.52 belt drive counter rotator

Sniper25
Site Supporter - IV
Site Supporter - IV
Posts: 47
Joined: Mon Jul 20, 2009 2:02 pm
Location: Cocoa

Re: 556hp LSA vs. 600hp 418 Water Thunder

Post by Sniper25 »

I agree with you Bigun. You can have a manufacturer build 2 identical boats with the same power plant and chances are they will not run the same. We are all passionate about our boats. And no one is truly right or wrong. Peoples opinions are only based off of their own personal experiences so you will always have differing opinions. The knowledge and experience we gain is one of the things makes this hobby of ours so great. :usa:
14' Laser / 520 Cont.
Losing faith in humanity one person at a time!!!

User avatar
digginfool
Site Supporter - III
Site Supporter - III
Posts: 2740
Joined: Wed Jun 05, 2013 3:00 pm
Location: South Florida

Re: 556hp LSA vs. 600hp 418 Water Thunder

Post by digginfool »

Blown wrote:You have been GROSSLY misinformed. Only true part in all that is about warranty. I tune my own boat MEFI5, all safety parameters are intact. I have a 700hp to wheels 5th gen Camaro I also tune, run mid 10's in the 1/4 with a manual tranny.

That is good to know. What tuner are you using?
“When plunder becomes a way of life for a group of men living together in society, they create for themselves in the course of time a legal system that authorizes it and a moral code that glorifies it” - Bastiat

Oilfield Trash
Southern Airboat Member
Posts: 73
Joined: Thu Mar 07, 2013 4:33 pm
Location: Cocoa

Re: 556hp LSA vs. 600hp 418 Water Thunder

Post by Oilfield Trash »

Sniper25 wrote:We are all passionate about our boats
That's right. This about sums it up:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=j-6k6wPyySc

clamped
Southern Airboat Member
Posts: 64
Joined: Sat Sep 01, 2007 2:54 am
Location: LaBelle, Fl

Re: 556hp LSA vs. 600hp 418 Water Thunder

Post by clamped »

I bet the op is more confused now than before he posted, lol

User avatar
HuntingBigun
Site Supporter - VIII
Site Supporter - VIII
Posts: 6273
Joined: Mon Jan 07, 2008 11:39 pm
Location: Plant City, FL
Contact:

Re: 556hp LSA vs. 600hp 418 Water Thunder

Post by HuntingBigun »

Blown wrote:
You have been GROSSLY misinformed. Only true part in all that is about warranty. I tune my own boat MEFI5, all safety parameters are intact. I have a 700hp to wheels 5th gen Camaro I also tune, run mid 10's in the 1/4 with a manual tranny.

Heck I want to see the car post pics sounds cool, like Diggin what tuner you using have buddy with car love to know :thumbleft:


Op got lot great info plus a little SA at its finest :salute: :salute: We all poke each other but in the end of the day we ride and have good time no matter what we got pushing the prop, I just want to know who going to get Blackwater and me unstuck at Thanksgiving :D :D :D We need a lot of help :thumbleft:
Bigun

http://www.krvsa.com


Click for pics = http://www.flickr.com/photos/huntingbigun/

Killin Time 15.6 Diamondback Deckover Mast 808 Hp SC LS 7 /KRVSA /NRA

User avatar
digginfool
Site Supporter - III
Site Supporter - III
Posts: 2740
Joined: Wed Jun 05, 2013 3:00 pm
Location: South Florida

Re: 556hp LSA vs. 600hp 418 Water Thunder

Post by digginfool »

HuntingBigun wrote:
Blown wrote:
You have been GROSSLY misinformed. Only true part in all that is about warranty. I tune my own boat MEFI5, all safety parameters are intact. I have a 700hp to wheels 5th gen Camaro I also tune, run mid 10's in the 1/4 with a manual tranny.

Heck I want to see the car post pics sounds cool, like Diggin what tuner you using have buddy with car love to know :thumbleft:


Op got lot great info plus a little SA at its finest :salute: :salute: We all poke each other but in the end of the day we ride and have good time no matter what we got pushing the prop, I just want to know who going to get Blackwater and me unstuck at Thanksgiving :D :D :D We need a lot of help :thumbleft:
The 'Fool to the rescue!! :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol:
“When plunder becomes a way of life for a group of men living together in society, they create for themselves in the course of time a legal system that authorizes it and a moral code that glorifies it” - Bastiat

flying fish
Site Supporter - II
Site Supporter - II
Posts: 1877
Joined: Thu Jun 21, 2007 11:09 pm
Location: Elkhart, Kansas

Re: 556hp LSA vs. 600hp 418 Water Thunder

Post by flying fish »

On exact topic boat, have you thought about a MAST 416 VVT?

I sure like the one I have. Especially the way it starts. makes big/reliable & smooth power.
Economy is amazing and swings a great big 3 blade wide prop maxed out on pitch with a 2.3 ratio to 5350-5400 RPM.

Did I mention how much I like the way it starts?? :)
15' DB - 6.2 LSA - 4 blade 82" R - 2.52 CH-4

User avatar
Tony480
Site Supporter - I
Site Supporter - I
Posts: 5277
Joined: Sun Sep 10, 2006 5:52 pm
Location: lake county

Re: 556hp LSA vs. 600hp 418 Water Thunder

Post by Tony480 »

They aren't selling the vvt for a boat anymore from what I was told

Oilfield Trash
Southern Airboat Member
Posts: 73
Joined: Thu Mar 07, 2013 4:33 pm
Location: Cocoa

Re: 556hp LSA vs. 600hp 418 Water Thunder

Post by Oilfield Trash »

digginfool wrote:
Blown wrote:You have been GROSSLY misinformed. Only true part in all that is about warranty. I tune my own boat MEFI5, all safety parameters are intact. I have a 700hp to wheels 5th gen Camaro I also tune, run mid 10's in the 1/4 with a manual tranny.

That is good to know. What tuner are you using?
He posted it over a year ago, back before you knew everything about LSA's:

https://www.obd2allinone.com/products/mefi.asp

Bdriller
Site Supporter - IV
Site Supporter - IV
Posts: 935
Joined: Fri Sep 24, 2010 9:38 pm
Location: red river below texoma

Re: 556hp LSA vs. 600hp 418 Water Thunder

Post by Bdriller »

Olf Art wrote:
Waterthunder wrote:Hey Old Art when the SimpleMan boat is finished look me up I want you to drive it. I bet you will appreciate the simplicity and performance of it.
I'd love to. Thanks! Hey, you know those show bikes where you can't see any wiring or gas lines? I'd like to build a little boat where when you walk up to it you don't see much wiring or other gadgets .... just an old school sight gauge for the gas, a tach, an oil pressure gauge, and a couple switches. For me, simple and light is my idea of how to do it.
seems like somebody built an airboat awhile back similar to what your talking about, you couldn't see the nos system :toothy

User avatar
Blown
Southern Airboat Member
Posts: 96
Joined: Tue Jun 03, 2014 10:49 pm
Location: Williston, Florida

Re: 556hp LSA vs. 600hp 418 Water Thunder

Post by Blown »

I am using MEFI 5 burn for software. I tune myself. On the car I use SCT software, again tune myself.
2012 Diamaondback 15x8 Powered by LSA with 2.52 belt drive counter rotator

User avatar
digginfool
Site Supporter - III
Site Supporter - III
Posts: 2740
Joined: Wed Jun 05, 2013 3:00 pm
Location: South Florida

Re: 556hp LSA vs. 600hp 418 Water Thunder

Post by digginfool »

Oilfield Trash wrote:
digginfool wrote:
Blown wrote:You have been GROSSLY misinformed. Only true part in all that is about warranty. I tune my own boat MEFI5, all safety parameters are intact. I have a 700hp to wheels 5th gen Camaro I also tune, run mid 10's in the 1/4 with a manual tranny.

That is good to know. What tuner are you using?
He posted it over a year ago, back before you knew everything about LSA's:

https://www.obd2allinone.com/products/mefi.asp
I hardly know everything about LSAs. I can only relate what experience I have with mine and what I've been told by others (and I don't mean somebody's neighbor's uncle). In any event, thanks for the link!
“When plunder becomes a way of life for a group of men living together in society, they create for themselves in the course of time a legal system that authorizes it and a moral code that glorifies it” - Bastiat

Olf Art
Site Supporter - VIII
Site Supporter - VIII
Posts: 11851
Joined: Sat Jun 03, 2006 6:33 pm
Location: Plant City, FL

Re: 556hp LSA vs. 600hp 418 Water Thunder

Post by Olf Art »

Sniper25 wrote:I agree with you Bigun. You can have a manufacturer build 2 identical boats with the same power plant and chances are they will not run the same. We are all passionate about our boats. And no one is truly right or wrong. Peoples opinions are only based off of their own personal experiences so you will always have differing opinions. The knowledge and experience we gain is one of the things makes this hobby of ours so great. :usa:
One of the things that I think makes a big difference in the way a boat performs is gas tank placement. In MHO it should be located at the balance center of the whole rig while you or a weight equal to what you weigh is in the steering seat. That way, full or nearly empty, that front-to-rear weight shift never happens as you burn fuel. All it takes to find that is to drop it on the ground and roll a piece of 3" dia. PVC under it.
Last edited by Olf Art on Wed Jun 17, 2015 3:29 pm, edited 1 time in total.
"I know not what tomorrow may bring, but I know Who brings tomorrow."
Member: KRVSA, FAA, TAA, and life member NRA and VFW

User avatar
Blown
Southern Airboat Member
Posts: 96
Joined: Tue Jun 03, 2014 10:49 pm
Location: Williston, Florida

Re: 556hp LSA vs. 600hp 418 Water Thunder

Post by Blown »

Here is a couple of the car, didn't get the time on one but its legit. 2nd video I'm about half way through.

Car has a 2300 blower 12psi,cam, 102MM TB and odds and ends, Strange Dana 60 rear, 6pt cage. No 2 step or any electronics for launching all me.



2012 Diamaondback 15x8 Powered by LSA with 2.52 belt drive counter rotator

User avatar
DynaMarine
Site Supporter - VIII
Site Supporter - VIII
Posts: 1516
Joined: Sat Oct 02, 2010 8:20 pm
Location: Lawrence, KS
Contact:

Re: 556hp LSA vs. 600hp 418 Water Thunder

Post by DynaMarine »

Diggin you can tune like Blown said. Several software systems that can tune the MEFI or E67 controller and keep all safety parameters intact. We just did the same with the LSA that we punched out to a 416ci. Smoothest 730hp turnkey ever built according to them. Even had them put an oil temp sensor run through the ECM so I can monitor the oil temp through the CAN gauges.
Last edited by DynaMarine on Wed Jun 17, 2015 4:36 pm, edited 1 time in total.
Shane Lavalette
President/Owner

DynaMarine Performance Boats
785.218.9449
www.dyna-marine.com
shane@dyna-marine.com

Oilfield Trash
Southern Airboat Member
Posts: 73
Joined: Thu Mar 07, 2013 4:33 pm
Location: Cocoa

Re: 556hp LSA vs. 600hp 418 Water Thunder

Post by Oilfield Trash »

[/quote]

I hardly know everything about LSAs. I can only relate what experience I have with mine and what I've been told by others (and I don't mean somebody's neighbor's uncle). In any event, thanks for the link![/quote]

Ya, me niether - I'm still figuring out stuff on mine and I've had 2 years. Just giving ya a hard time!

User avatar
HuntingBigun
Site Supporter - VIII
Site Supporter - VIII
Posts: 6273
Joined: Mon Jan 07, 2008 11:39 pm
Location: Plant City, FL
Contact:

Re: 556hp LSA vs. 600hp 418 Water Thunder

Post by HuntingBigun »

[quote="Blown"]Here is a couple of the car, didn't get the time on one but its legit. 2nd video I'm about half way through.

Car has a 2300 blower 12psi,cam, 102MM TB and odds and ends, Strange Dana 60 rear, 6pt cage. No 2 step or any electronics for launching all me.

quote]


Very nice and cut a good light as well :thumbleft:
Bigun

http://www.krvsa.com


Click for pics = http://www.flickr.com/photos/huntingbigun/

Killin Time 15.6 Diamondback Deckover Mast 808 Hp SC LS 7 /KRVSA /NRA

User avatar
DynaMarine
Site Supporter - VIII
Site Supporter - VIII
Posts: 1516
Joined: Sat Oct 02, 2010 8:20 pm
Location: Lawrence, KS
Contact:

Re: 556hp LSA vs. 600hp 418 Water Thunder

Post by DynaMarine »

Here's the dyno video of the final 730hp pull...nice smooth idle at the end.

Shane Lavalette
President/Owner

DynaMarine Performance Boats
785.218.9449
www.dyna-marine.com
shane@dyna-marine.com

User avatar
Blown
Southern Airboat Member
Posts: 96
Joined: Tue Jun 03, 2014 10:49 pm
Location: Williston, Florida

Re: 556hp LSA vs. 600hp 418 Water Thunder

Post by Blown »

I honestly think the combo that Shane posted of the 418 LSA combo is the best that I have seen for an airboat, a the curve looks more like a table top and peaks at a reasonable RPM.
2012 Diamaondback 15x8 Powered by LSA with 2.52 belt drive counter rotator

User avatar
HuntingBigun
Site Supporter - VIII
Site Supporter - VIII
Posts: 6273
Joined: Mon Jan 07, 2008 11:39 pm
Location: Plant City, FL
Contact:

Re: 556hp LSA vs. 600hp 418 Water Thunder

Post by HuntingBigun »

blackwaterairboats wrote:I can't wait to get stuck lol. We will sure need an army to get both our boats unstuck. Mine especially. There is a spot for every boat to get stuck the bad part is when you have power you are usally stuck where you shouldn't of been to begin with. It's all in fun and games and some very good knowledge at the end of the day. Come on Diggin lets make that motor of yours turn some big power. You have the box and prop now to do it.

Looking forward to the ride, we let Diggin get stuck first so we can get good pictures :D so stay in touch KRVSA we always have a small ride over the holidays come join in and bring the younguns :thumbleft: ,

been my learned experience that most of the bad stuff I got myself into started with the words "Watch This"
Bigun

http://www.krvsa.com


Click for pics = http://www.flickr.com/photos/huntingbigun/

Killin Time 15.6 Diamondback Deckover Mast 808 Hp SC LS 7 /KRVSA /NRA

User avatar
Blown
Southern Airboat Member
Posts: 96
Joined: Tue Jun 03, 2014 10:49 pm
Location: Williston, Florida

Re: 556hp LSA vs. 600hp 418 Water Thunder

Post by Blown »

digginfool wrote:
Oilfield Trash wrote:
Afflicted wrote:WT. 44 more hp
556 on that LSA is the GM #'s when it's in a car with restrictive headers and intake.... In an airboat application with some Norman Clay headers and a big fat 9" K&N on the snout it's closer to 600hp (according to a GM engineer).

Sniper I live in Cocoa your welcome to come run mine. I've had it about 2 years and have had zero issues.
That 556 hp is at 6,200 RPM, which the motor will never see in an airboat. At 5,400 RPM, where most people will pitch their prop to, the motor is making ~530 hp.

I see this attitude so much in the air boat world...why the hell is everyone so scared of some RPM? If you have an engine that peaks at 6400 by god turn it 6200-6400. Put the right gear and prop on it and turn it up.
2012 Diamaondback 15x8 Powered by LSA with 2.52 belt drive counter rotator

Post Reply

Return to “Automotive Power Only”