556hp LSA vs. 600hp 418 Water Thunder

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Re: 556hp LSA vs. 600hp 418 Water Thunder

Postby flying fish » Tue Jun 23, 2015 9:22 am

Chaseh wrote:
flying fish wrote:The 6.2 LSA with a 2.52 ratio & 84" 4 blade Whispertip EX governed 5500 WOT is a very good combination. Strong & Fast.



:)[URL=http://s228.photobucket.com/user/cttrout/media/Trout_zps4wfxczwm.jpg.html]Image

What boat is this?
Boat pictured is 17x8 Diamondback -6.2 LSA with a 2.52 ratio & 84" 4 blade Whispertip EX governed 5500 WOT.
Excellent combination. Strong & Fast :)
15' DB - 6.2 LSA - 4 blade 82" R - 2.52 CH-4

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Re: 556hp LSA vs. 600hp 418 Water Thunder

Postby getchasumairboats » Tue Jun 23, 2015 4:45 pm

blackwaterairboats wrote:Well I can say for a fact that where 2 Ls motors were stuck for 2 and a half hours this week I ran it with no problems and even pulled a 16' airgator with a 500 caddy on threw the same spot. 1 boat was a 13' 10" Jb with 680hp and the other was a 12' sled I don't know the hp. So what motor is better small block or big block? Lol



I will gladly ride right beside your big hp big block with my Ls that Dave built. I only have bout 500 hp but there ain't a doubt in my mind that I can't run anywhere that you will dare to take your big block.. And as far as the others getting stuck well to many variables there.
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Re: 556hp LSA vs. 600hp 418 Water Thunder

Postby digginfool » Tue Jun 23, 2015 4:58 pm

getchasumairboats wrote:
blackwaterairboats wrote:Well I can say for a fact that where 2 Ls motors were stuck for 2 and a half hours this week I ran it with no problems and even pulled a 16' airgator with a 500 caddy on threw the same spot. 1 boat was a 13' 10" Jb with 680hp and the other was a 12' sled I don't know the hp. So what motor is better small block or big block? Lol



I will gladly ride right beside your big hp big block with my Ls that Dave built. I only have bout 500 hp but there ain't a doubt in my mind that I can't run anywhere that you will dare to take your big block.. And as far as the others getting stuck well to many variables there.



Unless you have an 18 foot, 9 seat barge like blackwater has, what's your point?
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Re: 556hp LSA vs. 600hp 418 Water Thunder

Postby JB550 » Tue Jun 23, 2015 6:12 pm

blackwaterairboats wrote:Like I said 680hp watertunder stuck in same spot on a small light hull. Does your boat weigh in at over 3500lbs with out anyone sitting in it? Hell a DD can follow right behind me after I made the trail.


:roll: :roll: :roll: Lordy, lordy. Time to put on my high water boots cause it's gettin deep. :happy1: :happy1:

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Re: 556hp LSA vs. 600hp 418 Water Thunder

Postby flying fish » Tue Jun 23, 2015 6:19 pm

I see a lot of combinations that are over propped.
Either of the engines you are looking at are good choices. Prop and gear the engine correctly and you will really have something.

A 4 blade 82" NGR is a bad prop choice for either engine. Too much prop.

Choose the engine you want then ride as many boats as you can with this engine and different gear/prop combos. Then decide what fits your driving style best.
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Re: 556hp LSA vs. 600hp 418 Water Thunder

Postby Blown » Tue Jun 23, 2015 6:20 pm

The BS is just spewing out of this guy....Jeeze bring that bitch to a sand bar and let the water come out from under it, then we will load 9 on it and see where it goes, or even 4 LOL.
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Re: 556hp LSA vs. 600hp 418 Water Thunder

Postby farmboy » Tue Jun 23, 2015 6:32 pm

Lmmfao now this is some funny $hit!!!!!
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Re: 556hp LSA vs. 600hp 418 Water Thunder

Postby getchasumairboats » Tue Jun 23, 2015 6:41 pm

I never said I would follow. I said I would run right BESIDE !!!!! I still call bs on the other boats stuck your boat dragging thru same spot blah blah blah.
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Re: 556hp LSA vs. 600hp 418 Water Thunder

Postby digginfool » Tue Jun 23, 2015 7:26 pm

flying fish wrote:
flying fish wrote:The 6.2 LSA with a 2.52 ratio & 84" 4 blade Whispertip EX governed 5500 WOT is a very good combination. Strong & Fast.



:)[URL=http://s228.photobucket.com/user/cttrout/media/Trout_zps4wfxczwm.jpg.html]Image

Boat pictured is 17x8 Diamondback -6.2 LSA with a 2.52 ratio & 84" 4 blade Whispertip EX governed 5500 WOT.
Excellent combination. Strong & Fast :)


flying fish wrote:I see a lot of combinations that are over propped.
A 4 blade 82" NGR is a bad prop choice for either engine. Too much prop.


How interesting. You think the 84" Whispertip EX with a 13" chord is the perfect setup with a 2.52 gear but believe the 82" NGR with a 13" chord is too much prop period? :roll: :roll:
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Re: 556hp LSA vs. 600hp 418 Water Thunder

Postby Blown » Tue Jun 23, 2015 7:44 pm

digginfool wrote:
flying fish wrote:
flying fish wrote:The 6.2 LSA with a 2.52 ratio & 84" 4 blade Whispertip EX governed 5500 WOT is a very good combination. Strong & Fast.



:)[URL=http://s228.photobucket.com/user/cttrout/media/Trout_zps4wfxczwm.jpg.html]Image

Boat pictured is 17x8 Diamondback -6.2 LSA with a 2.52 ratio & 84" 4 blade Whispertip EX governed 5500 WOT.
Excellent combination. Strong & Fast :)


flying fish wrote:I see a lot of combinations that are over propped.
A 4 blade 82" NGR is a bad prop choice for either engine. Too much prop.


How interesting. You think the 84" Whispertip EX with a 13" chord is the perfect setup with a 2.52 gear but believe the 82" NGR with a 13" chord is too much prop period? :roll: :roll:


Diggin you really need to learn how to comprehend things. He said 4 NGR was too much.
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Re: 556hp LSA vs. 600hp 418 Water Thunder

Postby digginfool » Tue Jun 23, 2015 8:20 pm

Blown wrote:
digginfool wrote:How interesting. You think the 84" Whispertip EX with a 13" chord is the perfect setup with a 2.52 gear but believe the 82" NGR with a 13" chord is too much prop period? :roll: :roll:


Diggin you really need to learn how to comprehend things. He said 4 NGR was too much.


I do believe it is your comprehension skills that need improvement. Try reading it again without jumping to conclusions before you finish. The prop he is using is a 4 blade as is the prop he negates. They have, aside from the winglet, the same basic geometry yet he is recommending 2 inches more diameter, which certainly has more effect than the winglets offer.
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Re: 556hp LSA vs. 600hp 418 Water Thunder

Postby Blown » Tue Jun 23, 2015 8:37 pm

digginfool wrote:
Blown wrote:
digginfool wrote:How interesting. You think the 84" Whispertip EX with a 13" chord is the perfect setup with a 2.52 gear but believe the 82" NGR with a 13" chord is too much prop period? :roll: :roll:


Diggin you really need to learn how to comprehend things. He said 4 NGR was too much.


I do believe it is your comprehension skills that need improvement. Try reading it again without jumping to conclusions before you finish. The prop he is using is a 4 blade as is the prop he negates. They have, aside from the winglet, the same basic geometry yet he is recommending 2 inches more diameter, which certainly has more effect than the winglets offer.


Haha yep your right. I'll eat crow on that one. I read that on my phone in the truck. Sorry.

Did you ever look up that Lingenfelter dyno? There is the link, the Chassis dyno link is at the bottom of that page.

http://www.lingenfelter.com/mm5/merchant.mvc?Screen=PROD&Product_Code=L250070709&Category_Code=C444#.VYn7cflViko
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Re: 556hp LSA vs. 600hp 418 Water Thunder

Postby flying fish » Tue Jun 23, 2015 9:46 pm

yes diggin I say you have too much prop. Eventually, you will figure it out.

Blackwater you are the man. Period. :salute:
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Re: 556hp LSA vs. 600hp 418 Water Thunder

Postby crowhater » Wed Jun 24, 2015 4:16 pm

I have read some of this and I can tell you for a fact I will never own another BB airboat, its all about power to weight. The strongest old school SBC boat I ever say was that 434 set up that Flying Fish built and sold to a guy down here in Port Lavaca. That kid drove that freaking boat over and through anything you pointed him at and I don't think he had any idea how strong that boat was. The next impressive SB boat was the Swoosh boat with a 3.12 reduction and a 5 blade Superwide. Wide open the blade spun like 1500 rpm and it would climb walls, just cruising in it the boat was spooky quiet.

I have owned some pretty powerful BB airboats, my caddy on made over 700hp on pump gas and 1000hp if I hit the spray. That same platform with an LSA would have been twice the boat. The LSA is almost half the weight and it can put out 700hp with minor bolt-ons and tuning. Fuel consumption would be less, and because it is computer controlled you will always be running 5x5. I truly feel an LSA has more potential in an airboat because you have the room for a much bigger inner cooler and the air flow through the inner cooler is better.

The other reason an LSA wins in my book is that you can purchase one turn key with the wiring harness for 13-14K with a 2 year warranty. This is what Scoggin Dic use to sell them for, I have not checked in a while.
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Re: 556hp LSA vs. 600hp 418 Water Thunder

Postby flying fish » Wed Jun 24, 2015 6:17 pm

Crow- Marshal
434 cid/big torque w/2.88 gear and 4 blade 84" Superwide on a 16' Alumitech. Man, that seems like a long time ago. :-)
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Re: 556hp LSA vs. 600hp 418 Water Thunder

Postby digginfool » Wed Jun 24, 2015 9:53 pm

flying fish wrote:yes diggin I say you have too much prop. Eventually, you will figure it out.


Do explain how a 17x8 DB powered by an LSA with a 2.52 gear and 4 blade 84" Whispertip EX is perfect yet a 15x8 DB powered by an LSA with a 2.5 gear and a 4 blade 82" NGR is over propped. I must have missed something along the way. Sometimes I can be pretty dense. I am the digginfool, ya know.
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Re: 556hp LSA vs. 600hp 418 Water Thunder

Postby flying fish » Wed Jun 24, 2015 10:26 pm

digginfool wrote:
flying fish wrote:yes diggin I say you have too much prop. Eventually, you will figure it out.


Do explain how a 17x8 DB powered by an LSA with a 2.52 gear and 4 blade 84" Whispertip EX is perfect yet a 15x8 DB powered by an LSA with a 2.5 gear and a 4 blade 82" NGR is over propped. I must have missed something along the way. Sometimes I can be pretty dense. I am the digginfool, ya know.


I rode every combo I could sit on and liked the 84" whispertip ex in a 4 blade with the 2.52 ratio and the LSA the best. Only combo I ever liked better than the combo I run on my Silverdollar.

Whispertip does not require big pitch to perform well.

Perfect? Doesn't sound like me, but I eat a little crow on occasion also.
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Re: 556hp LSA vs. 600hp 418 Water Thunder

Postby flying fish » Wed Jun 24, 2015 10:36 pm

crowhater wrote:I have read some of this and I can tell you for a fact I will never own another BB airboat, its all about power to weight. The strongest old school SBC boat I ever say was that 434 set up that Flying Fish built and sold to a guy down here in Port Lavaca. That kid drove that freaking boat over and through anything you pointed him at and I don't think he had any idea how strong that boat was


Crowhater
Trying to keep the facts straight, was my engine design on the alumitech. You and Dan Huebner(spelling) set up the gear and prop and Alan Bills put the carb and final tune on her. Best I remember anyways.

I can only share in the way she breathed :)
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Re: 556hp LSA vs. 600hp 418 Water Thunder

Postby Bruce » Wed Jun 24, 2015 10:46 pm

Poor ol Diggin just has all kinda problems... Couldnt make it run with a bb and cant make it run with a lsa lol geez we have the same size boat 15x8 db with anodized riggin like you have with a 496 pcm motor 2.3 ratio beltdrive with a old school 3 blade master blaster and it runs the hill with 7 people on it and been doin it for 4500 plus hours im startin to think a lot of these issues arent your boat that or you're missin a big piece of the puzzle id lose the 4th blade if it were me or go to a 2.68 ratio where you could get some bite in them blades but hell thats just my opinion not really worth too much...
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Re: 556hp LSA vs. 600hp 418 Water Thunder

Postby digginfool » Wed Jun 24, 2015 11:50 pm

Using the parental copout of 'because I said so' doesn't cut it. How about some hard numbers? For me, today, I ran 40.38 miles at an average speed of 26.4 mph. At 2,400 rpm I was going 22.8 mph. At 2,700 rpm, 27.5 mph and at 3,200 rpm, I was going 33.2 mph. Two boats got stuck where I feathered the throttle. Tell me how my boat is over propped. Tomorrow, after I top ofc the fuel, I'll tell you my mileage.
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Re: 556hp LSA vs. 600hp 418 Water Thunder

Postby flying fish » Thu Jun 25, 2015 7:45 am

Diggin
You like your prop that is good. Just my opinion about the prop.

We can discuss this long as you want. My opinion won't change.

Pitch wise, not enough horsepower to get into the sweet spot.

Gets you from point A to B. I surely am wrong.
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Re: 556hp LSA vs. 600hp 418 Water Thunder

Postby flying fish » Thu Jun 25, 2015 8:09 am

digginfool wrote:I've often looked at the spray pattern on my big boat and have always felt it rides on its nose. In this picture I was using the trim tab to keep it from hopping so it's probably nose down more than normal. This was at near WOT, too.


Can you lose the adjustable trim tab, riding solo tune bottom of your hull and adjust motor angle to where she just hops when letting off from wide open throttle in deep water?

Then, adding load moves spray further forward.




More load added more spray towards front.
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Re: 556hp LSA vs. 600hp 418 Water Thunder

Postby crowhater » Thu Jun 25, 2015 10:06 am

flying fish wrote:
crowhater wrote:I have read some of this and I can tell you for a fact I will never own another BB airboat, its all about power to weight. The strongest old school SBC boat I ever say was that 434 set up that Flying Fish built and sold to a guy down here in Port Lavaca. That kid drove that freaking boat over and through anything you pointed him at and I don't think he had any idea how strong that boat was


Crowhater
Trying to keep the facts straight, was my engine design on the alumitech. You and Dan Huebner(spelling) set up the gear and prop and Alan Bills put the carb and final tune on her. Best I remember anyways.

I can only share in the way she breathed :)



Chris you kind of lost me on this one? My first Stroked out big Caddy from Potter came with a $1500 Holly that they had built by Stan Justin I believe. I ran it a couple times for maybe a couple miles each and it would fuel foul plugs, I searched around and was told about this Yoda like carb Guru named Allen Bills. I took my carb to him and could not believe the diff, my friend was so impressed he went home and pulled his carb. My friends boat ran perfect, he did not think there was anything to be gained from his carb he just figured what the Heck for 200.00. We put his carb back on and his boat picked up 200 rpm and the fuel mileage dropped.

As you know I blew that engine up and I think another one, the third one went to Redriver when they built my boat and it was 100% new. Redriver took my new boat for a test drive and told me my new engine was making a funny sound, when I showed up I discovered the spun a rod bearing in it. They swore they only drove it to church " wink wink " come to find out later they had my brand new 530CI Cadillac turning 5500-5800rpm driving up the side of the river banks, cutting donuts, etc.


The engine you sold that kid was on an Alumitech and he had no clue! He asked me to bring my airboat and go with him because he did not know what was safe to run and what was not. I would just back up and hit the brakes to unload mine on the wet sand and figured I would pull him off if he could not get lose. We dropped that sucker on the wet Sand in Boggy / Port O'Connor and I got on with him. The second he hit the gas that boat took off like it left a flight deck, I was trying to tell him ( no, stop, don't go there, Oh Sheet, Wait, stop, hold on, go right, go left ) he drove that thing over small dunes, shell, bushes taller than the cage, exposed oyster reef and he would stop. He would stop in the worse spots and start jabbering like a spider monkey about ( should we try that, how's it running, should we go there, I bet we can run down a hog if we keep running over these bushes, etc ) then punch the gas and it was gone. Now remember I have a brand new boat of my own 700+hp BB with an additional 300hp nitrous system and this small block boat has my Jaw hanging open. I have been on more than a few airboat and that sucker would freaking go. Chris you build one hell of an engine, I still cant believe a 434 could take that kind of whooping without puking is guts, no way on earth a BB could take a beating like that and not hurt something.
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Re: 556hp LSA vs. 600hp 418 Water Thunder

Postby digginfool » Thu Jun 25, 2015 10:29 am

digginfool wrote:Using the parental copout of 'because I said so' doesn't cut it. How about some hard numbers? For me, today, I ran 40.38 miles at an average speed of 26.4 mph. At 2,400 rpm I was going 22.8 mph. At 2,700 rpm, 27.5 mph and at 3,200 rpm, I was going 33.2 mph. Two boats got stuck where I feathered the throttle. Tell me how my boat is over propped. Tomorrow, after I top ofc the fuel, I'll tell you my mileage.


14.5 gallons for 2.8 mpg. Not too bad for an over-propped pig.
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Re: 556hp LSA vs. 600hp 418 Water Thunder

Postby flying fish » Thu Jun 25, 2015 10:57 am

crowhater wrote:
flying fish wrote:
crowhater wrote:I have read some of this and I can tell you for a fact I will never own another BB airboat, its all about power to weight. The strongest old school SBC boat I ever say was that 434 set up that Flying Fish built and sold to a guy down here in Port Lavaca. That kid drove that freaking boat over and through anything you pointed him at and I don't think he had any idea how strong that boat was


Crowhater
Trying to keep the facts straight, was my engine design on the alumitech. You and Dan Huebner(spelling) set up the gear and prop and Alan Bills put the carb and final tune on her. Best I remember anyways.

I can only share in the way she breathed :)



Chris you kind of lost me on this one? My first Stroked out big Caddy from Potter came with a $1500 Holly that they had built by Stan Justin I believe. I ran it a couple times for maybe a couple miles each and it would fuel foul plugs, I searched around and was told about this Yoda like carb Guru named Allen Bills. I took my carb to him and could not believe the diff, my friend was so impressed he went home and pulled his carb. My friends boat ran perfect, he did not think there was anything to be gained from his carb he just figured what the Heck for 200.00. We put his carb back on and his boat picked up 200 rpm and the fuel mileage dropped.

As you know I blew that engine up and I think another one, the third one went to Redriver when they built my boat and it was 100% new. Redriver took my new boat for a test drive and told me my new engine was making a funny sound, when I showed up I discovered the spun a rod bearing in it. They swore they only drove it to church " wink wink " come to find out later they had my brand new 530CI Cadillac turning 5500-5800rpm driving up the side of the river banks, cutting donuts, etc.


The engine you sold that kid was on an Alumitech and he had no clue! He asked me to bring my airboat and go with him because he did not know what was safe to run and what was not. I would just back up and hit the brakes to unload mine on the wet sand and figured I would pull him off if he could not get lose. We dropped that sucker on the wet Sand in Boggy / Port O'Connor and I got on with him. The second he hit the gas that boat took off like it left a flight deck, I was trying to tell him ( no, stop, don't go there, Oh Sheet, Wait, stop, hold on, go right, go left ) he drove that thing over small dunes, shell, bushes taller than the cage, exposed oyster reef and he would stop. He would stop in the worse spots and start jabbering like a spider monkey about ( should we try that, how's it running, should we go there, I bet we can run down a hog if we keep running over these bushes, etc ) then punch the gas and it was gone. Now remember I have a brand new boat of my own 700+hp BB with an additional 300hp nitrous system and this small block boat has my Jaw hanging open. I have been on more than a few airboat and that sucker would freaking go. Chris you build one hell of an engine, I still cant believe a 434 could take that kind of whooping without puking is guts, no way on earth a BB could take a beating like that and not hurt something.


Marshal
Thanks. The chosen gear and prop made the engine look good. :)
Just like you, I now run the LS platform.
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