556hp LSA vs. 600hp 418 Water Thunder

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Tony480
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Re: 556hp LSA vs. 600hp 418 Water Thunder

Post by Tony480 » Tue Jun 30, 2015 9:07 pm

Didn't say they wouldn't work with strokers but a bigger huffer would definitely be better....but you could always boost it at a higher compression with the smaller blower...

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Re: 556hp LSA vs. 600hp 418 Water Thunder

Post by DynaMarine » Tue Jun 30, 2015 9:54 pm

I'd say the blower is pretty much maxed out. With a bigger 2.3L blower it'd make more power and carry it higher into the RPM range, but as it sits it's a pretty sweet setup. I'll let you know how it runs in a few weeks. Kolby said it was the smoothest 730hp he ever made.
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Re: 556hp LSA vs. 600hp 418 Water Thunder

Post by Blown » Tue Jun 30, 2015 9:57 pm

DynaMarine wrote:I'd say the blower is pretty much maxed out. With a bigger 2.3L blower it'd make more power and carry it higher into the RPM range, but as it sits it's a pretty sweet setup. I'll let you know how it runs in a few weeks. Kolby said it was the smoothest 730hp he ever made.

its a sick bitch thats all I'm saying lol
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Re: 556hp LSA vs. 600hp 418 Water Thunder

Post by general1eye » Tue Jun 30, 2015 10:24 pm

Good luck with those super chargers!!!!!!!

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Re: 556hp LSA vs. 600hp 418 Water Thunder

Post by T-REX » Tue Jun 30, 2015 10:36 pm

Good job guys!!

And that's the nice numbers you should be able to enjoy-
For a nice longtime - and hopefully ill be able to 'play' with you soon...
Lord knows I've been saving pennies and buying parts for quite a while now.
But ANYWAY the internals are not the weak link of the LSA engine....it's the entire package.
Why spend so much $ on parts that are sooooo limited ?
Not the crank
Not the rods
Not the pistons
The first limiting factors are the blower and intercooler!!!


Why the fucccc spend all that money on crap??
The corvette(camaro) forums are full of cheap factory take off equipment.
1,000$ will get you the stock blower- why spend 14k$??????

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Re: 556hp LSA vs. 600hp 418 Water Thunder

Post by Bruce » Tue Jun 30, 2015 10:42 pm

Blown wrote:
Tony480 wrote:The LSA does come factory with a forged crank. But same shitty pistons as in the rest. Those little huffers on the LSA really aren't the greatest for a stroker motor.
What makes them shitty? Because they are not forged?...LMAO I am putting out almost 800hp with the same "shitty pistons" in my blown LS3.....its ALL about how you tune it to make it live...you get greedy with timing and **** fuel things go boom....even forged. As for the cranks...welll they seem to be good to 900+ so no need to worry there either.

As for the blower being too small for a stroker...yeah border line if you want more than 750HP but Shane posted a nice 740hp/730torque earlier on a 416 stroked LSA at 5700 rpm....pretty nice if you ask me.

i always hear about how you have to have all forged everything in an airboat so itll live and ive watched plenty of those all forged assembled motors come and go shit cracks me up cant run a fly by wire pedal either theyll go crazy on you LMFAO!!
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Re: 556hp LSA vs. 600hp 418 Water Thunder

Post by Bruce » Tue Jun 30, 2015 10:44 pm

T-REX wrote:Good job guys!!

And that's the nice numbers you should be able to enjoy-
For a nice longtime - and hopefully ill be able to 'play' with you soon...
Lord knows I've been saving pennies and buying parts for quite a while now.
But ANYWAY the internals are not the weak link of the LSA engine....it's the entire package.
Why spend so much $ on parts that are sooooo limited ?
Not the crank
Not the rods
Not the pistons
The first limiting factors are the blower and intercooler!!!


Why the fucccc spend all that money on crap??
The corvette(camaro) forums are full of cheap factory take off equipment.
1,000$ will get you the stock blower- why spend 14k$??????
i watch those piss poor lsa packaged run every day gettin beat on and they seem to live pretty well
12 foot Mamba "The Underdog"
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Re: 556hp LSA vs. 600hp 418 Water Thunder

Post by T-REX » Tue Jun 30, 2015 11:26 pm

And they should Bruce-

For a very long time! It's a great engine package-for what it is....

But when tards get ahold of it....... Who knows what's possible .....


and then some-fool suggests buying the LSA package and then changing the rotating assembly for a few more horsepower it's ludicrous....
The real issue is more likely the boat set up to begin with.... :dontknow:

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Re: 556hp LSA vs. 600hp 418 Water Thunder

Post by Olf Art » Wed Jul 01, 2015 12:26 am

Dave, I'm still waiting to hear about those 418 DD motors. Have you got that thrust plate thing worked out yet?
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Re: 556hp LSA vs. 600hp 418 Water Thunder

Post by digginfool » Wed Jul 01, 2015 7:59 am

Tony480 wrote:Didn't say they wouldn't work with strokers but a bigger huffer would definitely be better....but you could always boost it at a higher compression with the smaller blower...
My thoughts as well. You could also go with a more aggressive cam, leaving more time for cylinders to fill. That's an experiment I'll leave to those with the experience and equipment (not to mention deeper pockets) to sort out.
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Re: 556hp LSA vs. 600hp 418 Water Thunder

Post by digginfool » Wed Jul 01, 2015 8:30 am

T-REX wrote:And they should Bruce-

For a very long time! It's a great engine package-for what it is....

But when tards get ahold of it....... Who knows what's possible .....


and then some-fool suggests buying the LSA package and then changing the rotating assembly for a few more horsepower it's ludicrous....
The real issue is more likely the boat set up to begin with.... :dontknow:
What you seem to be missing is the fact the LSA can be purchased for not much more than an AV 540, which leaves a whole lot of dollars on the table compared to buying a 700+ hp motor. The LSA can be brought up into the upper 600 hp range for less than $1,500.00, over 700 for not much more than that, which still leaves a bunch of money in your pocket. People keep saying I'm always complaining about my motor; that's just not true. The only thing I've ever said is that it is not what I had anticipated; basically the same performance I got out of my BBC with a whole lot less weight being the primary benefit. I've got my boat pretty well sorted out. It's a big, heavy boat that goes anywhere I want, gets decent mileage and tops out in the mid-50s. But, just like nearly everyone who's posted on this thread (for that matter, this whole site), this sport will almost always have you looking for more. The LSA can give you more for less dollars than starting out with a 600 hp NA motor and trying to squeeze more out of that setup. For instance, the 650 hp WT is $24K; $10,000.00 more than it cost me to put the LSA on my boat. I can do a lot to the LSA for that $10,000.00 and have a sheet load more power. Hell, with a little shopping, I could probably do a stroker kit and a 2.3 blower for that kind of jack. Then we're talking Hunting Bigun kind of power. And that's the only thing I'm saying. I'm sure anybody would be happy with either motor. I just like the flexibility the cost of the LSA gives me.
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Re: 556hp LSA vs. 600hp 418 Water Thunder

Post by dblj006 » Wed Jul 01, 2015 9:11 am

digginfool wrote:What you seem to be missing is the fact the LSA can be purchased for not much more than an AV 540.
Including the gearbox?
Broke.

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Re: 556hp LSA vs. 600hp 418 Water Thunder

Post by Tony480 » Wed Jul 01, 2015 9:17 am

No.

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Re: 556hp LSA vs. 600hp 418 Water Thunder

Post by DynaMarine » Wed Jul 01, 2015 9:31 am

I'll offer my opinion, which at worth a nickel...but I'll throw it out there anyways.

I really like the simplicity of an N/A setup, but I also really like the low end torque of the S/C motor. I'm anxious to get this 416ci 730hp LSA on a boat and see what it'll do. It has a pretty conservative 11.2-11.5 AFR so it's got a little left in it. But at that AFR TurnKey felt really comfortable standing behind the motor from a longevity/durability and warranty stand point. I'm sure once it's on a boat and we get some real time data, we'll lean up the bottom end and mid-range and pick up a few numbers there, but all in all...pretty happy with the numbers compared to the higher dollar blower motors.

For numbers comparison, I've run one of their LS427 with a 2.3L blower and it made 900hp with a radical cam and 9.5lbs of boost. Detuned (smaller cam and only 5.5lbs boost) it made an easy 760hp and was a much "friendlier" motor. It idles like your mommas Cadillac. With the big cam it sounded straight up rank as hell, like a packed of angry gorillas caged up. It was run on the same boat. Had to take a little bit of pitch out but as far as on the water performance, you could barely tell the difference and by barely we're talking maybe 200rpm difference at WOT governed with the same pitch. Took a tad pitch out, turned the same RPM and I didn't see any change in cruise RPM, at least none that I could honestly say...if 50RPM.

That said, I'd personally take the 760hp motor over the 900hp motor for durability, drive-ability (higher boost = higher IAT).

Back to the original topic, N/A Waterthunder vs LSA. They both have their advantages and disadvantages. I think you need to consider your long term goals and expectation out of the whole setup and then see which motor best fits. Either way I think you'll be happy.
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Re: 556hp LSA vs. 600hp 418 Water Thunder

Post by Tony480 » Wed Jul 01, 2015 9:42 am

I'd like to see one of those high dollar blower motors like the Mast or CBM on a light boat with a standard gearbox and see how they do. The only one's I've seen have been on counter rotator barges and from what I've seen don't seing any more prop than a N/A 550 horse. Not enough to warrant another 10k dollars anyways

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Re: 556hp LSA vs. 600hp 418 Water Thunder

Post by crowhater » Wed Jul 01, 2015 10:36 am

Once again, here is an LSA engine dyno sheet and these are Rear Wheel HP numbers from a Standard Trans ZL1 Camaro.



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Re: 556hp LSA vs. 600hp 418 Water Thunder

Post by Sniper25 » Wed Jul 01, 2015 10:39 am

I definitely want longevity and reliability. It seems like you don't have to turn the LSA quite as hard bc the torque comes in a little sooner. I would also like to see how that new engine performs for you Shane. I also like the fact that you can build more HP with the LSA than it would cost you in most other cases.
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Re: 556hp LSA vs. 600hp 418 Water Thunder

Post by Tony480 » Wed Jul 01, 2015 11:20 am

But if your not going to turn it up that horsepower does you no good.

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Re: 556hp LSA vs. 600hp 418 Water Thunder

Post by digginfool » Wed Jul 01, 2015 11:33 am

Tony480 wrote:But if your not going to turn it up that horsepower does you no good.
I wouldn't say that. The motor is pretty damn good bone stock.
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Re: 556hp LSA vs. 600hp 418 Water Thunder

Post by Blown » Wed Jul 01, 2015 11:50 am

So funny....how many people actually have no clue...about engines,power with in a curve of a dyno graph and the usability of what you have and proper prop/hull set-up.
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Re: 556hp LSA vs. 600hp 418 Water Thunder

Post by general1eye » Wed Jul 01, 2015 2:10 pm

I used to own your Diamondback and the original PCM LSA that it came with had issue after issue after issue. I must have got the lemon.

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Re: 556hp LSA vs. 600hp 418 Water Thunder

Post by digginfool » Wed Jul 01, 2015 2:32 pm

general1eye wrote:I used to own your Diamondback and the original PCM LSA that it came with had issue after issue after issue. I must have got the lemon.
Owned whose DB?
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Re: 556hp LSA vs. 600hp 418 Water Thunder

Post by flying fish » Wed Jul 01, 2015 2:37 pm

I like the idea about stroking the LSA and making the 730ish user friendly/reliable horsepower/torque that is way smooth power. Especially when someone else is spending the money to see if this stroked, big power piece is reliable.

Different strokes. makes the whole thing fun reading what someone else is doing. Man, I like horse power. Especially the way big horsepower sounds. When you hear it, you just don't forget it.

Twin Turbo LS making 900ish horse on an airboat sure makes me glad I got out of bed that day. :)

Topic was NA 418 vs LSA. If all I was after was what was offered and nocare as to what might be, I would definetly choose the N/A piece. Keep it simple.

Still, I would not rule out the MAST Cyclone if I were after a N/A piece that is way strong. Again, JMO-
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Re: 556hp LSA vs. 600hp 418 Water Thunder

Post by Waterthunder » Wed Jul 01, 2015 4:01 pm

You know what you all need is a 1000hp twin turbo, supercharged LS with a counter rotator.
THE PROOF IS IN THE PROP!

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Re: 556hp LSA vs. 600hp 418 Water Thunder

Post by general1eye » Wed Jul 01, 2015 4:03 pm

The man's from Williston-I forget his name.

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