Considering buy a aluminum engine

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akblackdawg
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Considering buy a aluminum engine

Postby akblackdawg » Wed Oct 21, 2015 11:05 am

Here we go again, not happy and problems with the pro built BBC from 2 years ago, most of you guys have told me all along to go with ls motor, considering this option:

$2300 firm 07 truck l76 6.0 aluminum motor. same block as a ls2 but has the l92 square port heads on it. has vvt and dod. was told has 80k on the motor.

Considering buying a ls style engine to eventually put in the airboat. Want to end up with something around 500 hp/torque, light weight for my 15 ft boat to haul around, and primary importance is reliability. Would the motor shown above be a good starting point and if i should buy it, what should i expect to have to do to it to make it into a reliable airboat motor. Bud
:alaska: If you ain't living on the edge, you're taking up to much space.

15x8 Alumatech hull, with enclosed cab, aluminum cage, LS 3, 6.2 aluminum block ffi, 2.7 Balistic Box, sensinich superwide 3 blade. Built for year around riding in Alaska

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Re: Considering buy a aluminum engine

Postby crowhater » Wed Oct 21, 2015 11:10 am

akblackdawg wrote:Here we go again, not happy and problems with the pro built BBC from 2 years ago, most of you guys have told me all along to go with ls motor, considering this option:

$2300 firm 07 truck l76 6.0 aluminum motor. same block as a ls2 but has the l92 square port heads on it. has vvt and dod. was told has 80k on the motor.

Considering buying a ls style engine to eventually put in the airboat. Want to end up with something around 500 hp/torque, light weight for my 15 ft boat to haul around, and primary importance is reliability. Would the motor shown above be a good starting point and if i should buy it, what should i expect to have to do to it to make it into a reliable airboat motor. Bud



you would be better off with the LS3 block or the LS7 block. Those cylinder heads are not going to work as well as Ls3 or Ls7 heads either. Give Dave at Waterthunder a call, he will steer you in the correct direction.
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Re: Considering buy a aluminum engine

Postby Waterthunder » Wed Oct 21, 2015 11:24 am

If you are wanting to do a budget build yourself and use stock pistons the 6.0 is a excellent choice. That is one of the strongest pistons in the LS line them and the 5.3 pistons will live in a airboat.
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Re: Considering buy a aluminum engine

Postby Tony480 » Wed Oct 21, 2015 11:33 am

crowhater wrote:
akblackdawg wrote:Here we go again, not happy and problems with the pro built BBC from 2 years ago, most of you guys have told me all along to go with ls motor, considering this option:

$2300 firm 07 truck l76 6.0 aluminum motor. same block as a ls2 but has the l92 square port heads on it. has vvt and dod. was told has 80k on the motor.

Considering buying a ls style engine to eventually put in the airboat. Want to end up with something around 500 hp/torque, light weight for my 15 ft boat to haul around, and primary importance is reliability. Would the motor shown above be a good starting point and if i should buy it, what should i expect to have to do to it to make it into a reliable airboat motor. Bud



you would be better off with the LS3 block or the LS7 block. Those cylinder heads are not going to work as well as Ls3 or Ls7 heads either. Give Dave at Waterthunder a call, he will steer you in the correct direction.

L92 and LS3 heads are the same other than LS3 has hollow intake valves...or do you know something different?

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Re: Considering buy a aluminum engine

Postby crowhater » Wed Oct 21, 2015 11:34 am

Waterthunder wrote:If you are wanting to do a budget build yourself and use stock pistons the 6.0 is a excellent choice. That is one of the strongest pistons in the LS line them and the 5.3 pistons will live in a airboat.



Well there you go, I stand corrected. I did not think you could get into the 500hp range with those heads without doing work to them.
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Re: Considering buy a aluminum engine

Postby akblackdawg » Wed Oct 21, 2015 12:17 pm

i am attracted to this l76 engine due to the larger displacement and the all aluminum block. 5.3 engines are available, but with iron block and the smaller displacement, and at a lot lower cost (as low as $300). Bud
:alaska: If you ain't living on the edge, you're taking up to much space.

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Re: Considering buy a aluminum engine

Postby scottyroll » Wed Oct 21, 2015 12:28 pm

I bet that engine you are considering will fit the bill.

However, have you considered the throttle part of the equation?

It probably has a fly by wire as opposed to the fly by cable option you have on your boat now and I imagine would like to adapt to the new power plant.
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Re: Considering buy a aluminum engine

Postby akblackdawg » Wed Oct 21, 2015 12:32 pm

scottyroll wrote:I bet that engine you are considering will fit the bill.

However, have you considered the throttle part of the equation?

It probably has a fly by wire as opposed to the fly by cable option you have on your boat now and I imagine would like to adapt to the new power plant.


Yes, I understand that is a fly by wire year engine, and is something that i will have to overcome, not sure how or what, but i know it is done fairly commonly. TY, Bud
:alaska: If you ain't living on the edge, you're taking up to much space.

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Re: Considering buy a aluminum engine

Postby Tony480 » Wed Oct 21, 2015 12:57 pm

And who are you gonna get to tune it? Because if your gonna try and make 500 horse it's gonna need to be reflashed or an aftermarket ecm...we know you can't do it

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Re: Considering buy a aluminum engine

Postby akblackdawg » Wed Oct 21, 2015 1:08 pm

Tony480 wrote:And who are you gonna get to tune it? Because if your gonna try and make 500 horse it's gonna need to be reflashed or an aftermarket ecm...we know you can't do it


Tony, you are absolutely right, I know nothing about these things and don't have a warm heated shop which is necessary to do much at all in the winter up here. I am sure there are people in Alaska who do know how to tune one of these engines, do I need somebody with airboat engine experience, or just somebody with new generation engine experience to tune it. I do hope to be able to talk with Dave and order what i need from him, and get advice from him if i go ahead in this direction. Bud
:alaska: If you ain't living on the edge, you're taking up to much space.

15x8 Alumatech hull, with enclosed cab, aluminum cage, LS 3, 6.2 aluminum block ffi, 2.7 Balistic Box, sensinich superwide 3 blade. Built for year around riding in Alaska

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Re: Considering buy a aluminum engine

Postby crowhater » Wed Oct 21, 2015 4:48 pm

akblackdawg wrote:
Tony480 wrote:And who are you gonna get to tune it? Because if your gonna try and make 500 horse it's gonna need to be reflashed or an aftermarket ecm...we know you can't do it


Tony, you are absolutely right, I know nothing about these things and don't have a warm heated shop which is necessary to do much at all in the winter up here. I am sure there are people in Alaska who do know how to tune one of these engines, do I need somebody with airboat engine experience, or just somebody with new generation engine experience to tune it. I do hope to be able to talk with Dave and order what i need from him, and get advice from him if i go ahead in this direction. Bud


Even if you purchase a tuned ECM you still want to data log the engine while it is running so the tune can be adjusted for your set up. See if anyone in your area has EFIlive or Hp tuner, if not you will probably be spending 700-1000 for this. Once you have it you can work with just about any tuner in the world. They will send you a tune, you run the engine and data log it, then send them the log so they can tweak the tune. Import the adjusted tune and data log again, repeat the process until you have everything running perfect. The tuner you purchase will always come in handy for adjustments, data logging and you can use it on other things ( diesel truck, car etc ).
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Re: Considering buy a aluminum engine

Postby T-REX » Thu Oct 22, 2015 9:58 am

If you get Dave's aftermarket (holley ? computer) ECM and harness he would put the correct software in it!!
That's your best bet..... Otherwise you'll spend 5-600$ on hp tuners software and still have to pay people to MAYBE get the tune right. You'll be at 1500$ before you know it and be regretting it....
Switch it to cable air door instead of DBW and DOD delete..... Get your cam from Dave as well( he's got the software for his cams all dialed in).

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Re: Considering buy a aluminum engine

Postby crowhater » Thu Oct 22, 2015 10:14 am

T-REX wrote:If you get Dave's aftermarket (holley ? computer) ECM and harness he would put the correct software in it!!
That's your best bet..... Otherwise you'll spend 5-600$ on hp tuners software and still have to pay people to MAYBE get the tune right. You'll be at 1500$ before you know it and be regretting it....
Switch it to cable air door instead of DBW and DOD delete..... Get your cam from Dave as well( he's got the software for his cams all dialed in).



I agree, Dave is the way to go.
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Re: Considering buy a aluminum engine

Postby SWAMPHUNTER45 » Thu Oct 22, 2015 2:32 pm

Call me stupid here but if I lived in BFE or somewhat off the grid, I would want a freaking simplistic and bullet proof DIY system with easy to find universal components.

This in my opinion is the exact application where a 472 / 500 Cadillac engine would more than excel. The Caddy platform likes to run cold and all the common components are at every NAPA or Advance auto. In a pinch anyone with basic tools and common sense can fix it. It is lighter than a BBC and only 75 pounds heavier than a SBC. It can easily produce 500hp and 575fps torque.

It is the AK47 of airboat engines if built by Buddy Branch.

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Re: Considering buy a aluminum engine

Postby T-REX » Thu Oct 22, 2015 2:35 pm

Marshall I'm still sitting on that callies crank and rods you sent me........
Ls2 block.......Im hoping Dave would be willing to work with my 'used' parts and put together my short block....
I've got a ls6 with a local builder and when I tried to not involve him with the cam selection he got his feeling hurt.......:(
Sorry Dave. ....ill be calling soon for that ECM though!

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Re: Considering buy a aluminum engine

Postby Waterthunder » Thu Oct 22, 2015 3:25 pm

Some 6.0 truck motors come with the L92 head its a (LS3) head without the hollow valves that Tony mentioned. I have made over 600HP with them heads on several different dyno'es. (stock out of the box) However do not run the L92 6.2 truck motor. As I mentioned a 100 times I have seen a dozen of them break a piston before even going thru one tank of gas. As for reliability The Holley is the WAY TO GO. Plus if you have internet we can tune it live on line if you do have any problems (WHICH RARELY HAPPENS). Out of 80 or so motors this year have only needed to tune live only twice. One of MANY MANY ADVANTAGES OF THE HOLLEY. You can make a 100 changes an the system can be simply changed or programmed to work. AS IN we use them on any V/8 air craft motors big block SBC/ SBC and of coarse LS. WAAAAAAAY TO MUCH bullshit work and fabing to make them stock ECU's do that.
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Re: Considering buy a aluminum engine

Postby Tony480 » Thu Oct 22, 2015 4:14 pm

I got the holley system from Dave and love it.

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Re: Considering buy a aluminum engine

Postby akblackdawg » Thu Oct 22, 2015 4:32 pm

Waterthunder wrote:Some 6.0 truck motors come with the L92 head its a (LS3) head without the hollow valves that Tony mentioned. I have made over 600HP with them heads on several different dyno'es. (stock out of the box) However do not run the L92 6.2 truck motor. As I mentioned a 100 times I have seen a dozen of them break a piston before even going thru one tank of gas. As for reliability The Holley is the WAY TO GO. Plus if you have internet we can tune it live on line if you do have any problems (WHICH RARELY HAPPENS). Out of 80 or so motors this year have only needed to tune live only twice. One of MANY MANY ADVANTAGES OF THE HOLLEY. You can make a 100 changes an the system can be simply changed or programmed to work. AS IN we use them on any V/8 air craft motors big block SBC/ SBC and of coarse LS. WAAAAAAAY TO MUCH bull**** work and fabing to make them stock ECU's do that.




Dave, so if i buy a 6.0 engine, with low miles (looking at 40-50k miles) give me a rough estimate of what parts etc will cost to set it up to pop in my boat: holly, harness, headers, ecu, pully's etc that i might need...just need to know what i am looking at, i will go through you, i have all winter to do it, but want to put it together right and have a trouble free motor, and roughly what i would have when i am done as far as torque. sending a pm is fine, thank you. Bud
:alaska: If you ain't living on the edge, you're taking up to much space.

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Re: Considering buy a aluminum engine

Postby crowhater » Fri Oct 23, 2015 12:04 pm

If I was building a stand alone EFI engine there is no way I would use the factory system. I would use Holley, or Fast because it is a much easier system.

Dave I have seen some real nice HP numbers made but those engines were like two stroke dirt bikes, they had a very narrow power band. The LS7 head on the LS3 block makes the best power in my opinion, if you are talking factory parts. If I was going to use an LS3 head I like the LSA head better simply because it is stronger and pretty much the same head. The only down side to the LS7 head is the factory valve guides. All of this I am sure you know and have known for years. For the record Dave has probably forgotten more about the LS engine then I will ever know. My LS knowledge is street application not airboat. Think what you want about Dave but you do not see threads on this forum about Waterthunder engines blowing up or people complaining they are weak. I have not purchased one of Dave's and I have no reason to sing his praise, I am simply stating a fact. Also Dave is one of the few engine builders that will take time to come onto a forum and offer free advise.
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Re: Considering buy a aluminum engine

Postby Tony480 » Fri Oct 23, 2015 5:31 pm

Didn't think you could use LS7 heads on a LS3..the 7 has much bigger intake valve then the LS3 and a bigger cylinder and there's not enough room for them on the smller LS3 cylinder

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Re: Considering buy a aluminum engine

Postby jimbo_jwc » Sat Oct 24, 2015 10:54 am

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Call me stupid here but if I lived in BFE or somewhat off the grid, I would want a freaking simplistic and bullet proof DIY system with easy to find universal components.

This in my opinion is the exact application where a 472 / 500 Cadillac engine would more than excel. The Caddy platform likes to run cold and all the common components are at every NAPA or Advance auto. In a pinch anyone with basic tools and common sense can fix it. It is lighter than a BBC and only 75 pounds heavier than a SBC. It can easily produce 500hp and 575fps torque.

Concur with this reply other than some people like working/talking about their boat motors and others like using them . 2002 15' Rivermaster Hoffman hull ,500 stock Cadillac engine 74x34 prop only mod was new radiator mounted below front of engine .Stuff got sucked up off bottom and bounced between fan n radiator chewed up , spit out back,can spin up to 3000 rpm .Like the availability of local auto parts stores or salvage yards as caddies were popular around here .My drain plugs now are safety chained /wired.

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Re: Considering buy a aluminum engine

Postby rotator75 » Sun Oct 25, 2015 5:25 pm

SWAMPHUNTER45 wrote:Call me stupid here but if I lived in BFE or somewhat off the grid, I would want a freaking simplistic and bullet proof DIY system with easy to find universal components.

This in my opinion is the exact application where a 472 / 500 Cadillac engine would more than excel. The Caddy platform likes to run cold and all the common components are at every NAPA or Advance auto. In a pinch anyone with basic tools and common sense can fix it. It is lighter than a BBC and only 75 pounds heavier than a SBC. It can easily produce 500hp and 575fps torque.

It is the AK47 of airboat engines if built by Buddy Branch.

LMFAO Caddys are a pile of shit :lol: That's about the funniest post ive seen in a long time,they make a hell of a boat anchor is all I know them to be good for,bottom end flying apart is one other thing they are good for. :thumbleft:

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Re: Considering buy a aluminum engine

Postby crowhater » Mon Oct 26, 2015 10:18 am

rotator75 wrote:
SWAMPHUNTER45 wrote:Call me stupid here but if I lived in BFE or somewhat off the grid, I would want a freaking simplistic and bullet proof DIY system with easy to find universal components.

This in my opinion is the exact application where a 472 / 500 Cadillac engine would more than excel. The Caddy platform likes to run cold and all the common components are at every NAPA or Advance auto. In a pinch anyone with basic tools and common sense can fix it. It is lighter than a BBC and only 75 pounds heavier than a SBC. It can easily produce 500hp and 575fps torque.

It is the AK47 of airboat engines if built by Buddy Branch.

LMFAO Caddys are a pile of **** :lol: That's about the funniest post ive seen in a long time,they make a hell of a boat anchor is all I know them to be good for,bottom end flying apart is one other thing they are good for. :thumbleft:



I don't know where you get your info from but I have never had the bottom end come out of a Caddy and I am pretty sure there is only one other person on this site that has done as much with a Caddy as me. I have turned them over 5500RPM, I have sprayed them with 300hp of Nitrous on top of 700 pump gas HP. Caddy engine have issues with the heads and valves if you try to run them past 4200rpm. If you modify the heads, valves, springs, install T&D shaft rocker you can spin your engine into the 5000rpm range without issue.


I have owned Caddy engines, I know what I am talking about. I have done both direct drive and reduction with a Caddy.
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Re: Considering buy a aluminum engine

Postby akblackdawg » Mon Oct 26, 2015 10:48 am

The L76 6.0 motor referenced in my original post above, aluminum block is casting number 62152 and head casting number is 5364. head has square ports on the intake side, and on exhaust side ports are square at the bottom but round at the top. I will try and talk with Dave today about this project, but want to know for sure that this specific motor would be a good start for my boat. What I am most interested in is losing almost 300 lbs in weight sitting behind my cab. You mention the Holly and Fast efi system, i am also being told about the accel system, would it have problems. At $2300 asking price, it seems kinda spendy for a 9 yr old motor with 80k on it, the 6.0 iron block can be picked up for around $1500 with 50k miles, aluminum block engine is hard to find up here. I don't even know what vvt and dod is. Bud
:alaska: If you ain't living on the edge, you're taking up to much space.

15x8 Alumatech hull, with enclosed cab, aluminum cage, LS 3, 6.2 aluminum block ffi, 2.7 Balistic Box, sensinich superwide 3 blade. Built for year around riding in Alaska

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Re: Considering buy a aluminum engine

Postby Afflicted » Mon Oct 26, 2015 11:11 am

Nobody has mentioned it yet but I thought that when looking for LS.motors to stay away from DOD
Maybe some1 will chime in


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