ECOTEC FUEL PUMP CHANGEOVER QUESTION

skinnypockets · Post by **skinnypockets** » Sun Feb 18, 2018 6:43 pm

I need a little help from the experienced ecotec builders. I'm putting together a ecotec sled using a 2.2 out of a 2010 colbault. I've run into a problem with the fuel pump setup. The decked over sled I'm using is not deep enough to allow me to use the original fuel pump. It seems my only option is to use an in-line fuel pump outside of the tank. The tank I'm wanting to use is only 7 inches high, ( the maximum height I can use and keep it inside the hull. )

The engine is set up with a single fuel line with no return. With the origional tank and pump, when I turn on the ignition the pump will run until it builds pressure then shut off. It appears to be controlled with a pressure switch. There's no pressure switch on the fuel rail so I'm guessing it is inside the fuel tank with the pump.

I read somewhere that I could use a fuel rail from a 2002 / 05 ecotec 2.0 that has a pressure regulator and return line and use a continuous run inline fuel pump with 55 to 60 pounds pressure. I don't know if this would work with my ECU, ( Alfafab stand alone ), or would it cause a problem.

Has anyone had to deal with this issue or have knowledge on how to set it up? Any help or suggestions would be greatly appreciated, Thanks in advance, skinnypockets

loudmouse · Post by **loudmouse** » Sun Feb 18, 2018 9:56 pm

To the best of my knowledge the pump runs for a predetermined amount of time commanded in the tune. Any pump that duplicates the correct pressure and volume should work fine outside the tank. I'm not sure what pressure the 2.2 operates at. I do know that the company you mentioned might not be of any help.

OneBFC · Post by **OneBFC** » Mon Feb 19, 2018 9:04 am

Just need to ensure the fuel rail attains proper pressure and always stays there. Doesn't matter how that happens fortunately.

Running a line to a regulator with a return back to the tank will work. Try to minimize foaming of the fuel in the tank by routing the return smart and not just have it dumping in from the top somewhere.

skinnypockets · Post by **skinnypockets** » Mon Feb 19, 2018 7:37 pm

Thanks mouse and Russ, that's what I needed. I bought gyrocopter's boat last summer and using the powertrain on a 12' glass sled Bilt by zoom zoom. I believe it's going to make a fun little boat. I was hoping to have it together by now but life keeps getting in the way.

br,lc,LA · Post by **br,lc,LA** » Wed Feb 21, 2018 7:12 pm

I am in the process of converting my 1.4L over to external inline pump and ditching the intank because it cant handle the flow needs to E85.

#1 The actual engine control ECU does not really care about fuel pressure as the sensor for fuel line pressure in the stock car normally goes to the FPCM. at least on my 1.4L the logic (in the FPCM) is set up to maintain 43-58psi using variable speed motor on the fuel pump. The ECU just verifies the FPCM is there and working so it can be tuned out.
#2 are you super or turbo charging the 2.2? If so pump selection is important if going external. Most high pressure pumps dont suck well so location of the inline pump is important... keep it close as possible to the tank and a good high flowing upstream filter not to restrict suction. consider a small lift pump in tank to supply the high pressure pump inline if you cant keep the high pressure pump primed.
#3 the non-return stock fuel rails have a black cap on one end. That cap covers a -4 AN fitting and a tire valve threaded into the fuel rail. you can remove the tire valve and make it a return rail so you can set it up like a true flow thru and regulate downstream of the rail vs regulating upstream of the rail.

skinnypockets · Post by **skinnypockets** » Thu Feb 22, 2018 5:57 pm

br,lc,LA, From what I have been able to learn the 2.2L requires around 55 psi. The ECU I have is locked so tuning is pretty much out of the question and the company that built it doesn't return phone calls so if any tuning is done it will have to be with another ECU. Do you think it will cause any problem if the FPCM is not tuned out?
At this point I plan to run it without boost to see how it performs. When I bought the original boat from gyrocopter it was on a 12 ft. combee hull. He has a video on youtube, (gyrocopter's wild ride), where he was running some rough country and it handled it quite well, only problem was the stringers didn't hold up. My goal is fuel efficiency and that's why I'm leaving it stock for now. I would like to install a fuel pump that would handle a turbo upgrade in case I need to go that route in the future.
I have parts car,(2004 saturn vue, 2.2L), and I believe it has the fuel rail with the return line so that is not a problem. If it doesn't, I will look at converting the fuel rail as you suggested. Thank you for your input.

Post by **kwanjangnihm** » Thu Feb 22, 2018 7:04 pm

dam thats a sh*ttn n gettn video!!

br,lc,LA · Post by **br,lc,LA** » Thu Feb 22, 2018 7:30 pm

It may not even start if it looses communication with the fuel pump module

my recommendation for a 2.2 is to call RDM Ecotecs or ZZP and get some advice.
https://www.facebook.com/rdm.ecotecs/
https://www.facebook.com/ZZPerformance/

also a new ecu is like $30-50 if yours is locked... i started over with a new ECU because brand "T" locks them and most tuners will.

tuning out the fpcm and going old school return system is what most of the aftermarket guys are doing to make power. the returnless system on cars today is to reduced emissions from flashing fuel back into the tank post regulator.

ffjpowell · Post by **ffjpowell** » Thu Feb 22, 2018 9:19 pm

I wonder why the stringers didn't hold up. Lol. Awesome video!!!
Good luck on ur build skinny. Can't wait to see it.

Sent from my [device_name] using Southern Airboat mobile app powered by Tapatalk

skinnypockets · Post by **skinnypockets** » Thu Feb 22, 2018 9:46 pm

br,lc,LA wrote:It may not even start if it looses communication with the fuel pump module

my recommendation for a 2.2 is to call RDM Ecotecs or ZZP and get some advice.
https://www.facebook.com/rdm.ecotecs/
https://www.facebook.com/ZZPerformance/

also a new ecu is like $30-50 if yours is locked... i started over with a new ECU because brand "T" locks them and most tuners will.

tuning out the fpcm and going old school return system is what most of the aftermarket guys are doing to make power. the returnless system on cars today is to reduced emissions from flashing fuel back into the tank post regulator.

I scanned over rdm's facebook page and I am going to give them a call tomorrow, Thank You!

skinnypockets · Post by **skinnypockets** » Thu Feb 22, 2018 10:11 pm

ffjpowell wrote:I wonder why the stringers didn't hold up. Lol. Awesome video!!!
Good luck on ur build skinny. Can't wait to see it.

Sent from my [device_name] using Southern Airboat mobile app powered by Tapatalk

The video is not surprising for a guy who flies around in one of those one man whirley gigs.

When I get time to learn how to post pictures here I'll try to post some of the rebuild. I've added a couple interesting features to the build. One is a reversed version of a air ride with side by side seats and the other is; well, lets just say it's an improvement that's long overdue for airboats !!

The hull itself is a glass, hand laid clone of a popular aluminum sled. Should be interesting!

OneBFC · Post by **OneBFC** » Thu Feb 22, 2018 11:04 pm

I actually put that video together for Mike. It has, I think, the highest views on my meager channel.

We rode that day together from lake washington to the oak head (if your not familiar with the area). The video starts right after the header had broken at the collector so it is quite loud compared to what it normally was.

Also, while it appears to be high speed, it's a perspective thing with the camera lense too. Engine runs really well when electronics are in order.

That motor doesn't get any slack on that run either, thats for sure. If memory serves, he had it set to 5700 WOT. Solid little engine if you don't need a ton of power on a light setup. He was swinging an 72" 2 blade AB200 through a 2.68 Rotator I believe.

Hope you get your rig working soon!

Oh, here's the video viewed from my boat. Was a fun ride. Too bad Mike got out of airboating.

br,lc,LA · Post by **br,lc,LA** » Wed Mar 07, 2018 11:31 am

just checking back to see if you got things set up the way you needed them.

skinnypockets · Post by **skinnypockets** » Wed Mar 07, 2018 4:46 pm

br,lc,LA wrote:just checking back to see if you got things set up the way you needed them.

I did a lot of reading and went over the engine several times. There's only two wires going to the fuel pump and I could not find any kind of pressure sensor on the fuel system anywhere. Because the fuel pump does cut on and off I suspect the pressure switch is inside the fuel pump itself. I used the SWAG method to reach this conclusion.
Anyway, I decided to go with a pressure regulator with a return to the tank before the fuel rail. This way there will be a constant pressure at the fuel rail and hopefully fool the computer. The worst that can happen is it won't run. In that case I'll just go with a GM computer so I will have the option to tune it without having to send it off to someone and having to wait. I've ordered the fuel pump, regulator, water separator, fuel lines and fittings which all should be here next week.
It's going to be a while before I know if it works because I have the boat apart now for paint and etc. I just got the cage and rigging back from being powder coated and should be able to start reassembling in the near future.
I built the rigging piece by piece without any pattern because I was designing it "as I went" to include a couple of different experimental features. One thing I did learn is it doesn't cost any more to build with SS over EMT when you consider material and powder coating. I went with the EMT because of the experimental part, (threw away a lot of material because I didn't like the way it looked.)

br,lc,LA · Post by **br,lc,LA** » Wed Mar 07, 2018 7:49 pm

if it dont work... GMSI offers a three day for $20. find tje car year that matches the motor and you cam go on an pull all the wiring info you need to sort it out and get with a local tuner.

skinnypockets · Post by **skinnypockets** » Wed Mar 07, 2018 8:24 pm

br,lc,LA wrote:if it dont work... GMSI offers a three day for $20. find tje car year that matches the motor and you cam go on an pull all the wiring info you need to sort it out and get with a local tuner.

i'll keep that in mind when I get to that point. Took me a few minutes to figure out what GMSI is but I did find it. Thanks for the lead.

FISHSTICKER · Post by **FISHSTICKER** » Sun Mar 17, 2019 8:56 am

Skinnypockets have you been able to start your motor yet? I'm interested to know if your fuel pump solution worked. I'm planning for a 2.0 build now and the supply pump is on my list also. The GM pump for may application is only $168 but I really would like to avoid and in tank pump if possible.

skinnypockets · Post by **skinnypockets** » Sun Mar 17, 2019 12:41 pm

Good morning FISHSTICKER, Yes I've had it out several times for testing on the lake here at home and have made two trips down to Old Glory. Didn't want to post the results until I had a few hours on it to test reliability. Glad to report it is working flawlessly NOW, and the boat performs very well. On the first trip to Old Glory I ran into a problem with fuel supply. Brought it home and had a friend look at it and he said it was the fuel pump. It turned out to be a small amount of gasket sealer had been picked up from the tank and was restricting the flow to the pump.

I'm going to take a moment here to fess up and admit it was my own stupid fault! I was in a hurry to get it in the water and did something I knew better than to do. Because the tank was new and clean and the pick up tube was a full 1" off the bottom of the tank, and I had a water separator in line after the pump, I thought I could get by without a filter before the pump until later. BAD DECISION !

To fix it I went inside the tank, ( the tank has a access plate ), shortened the pick-up tube and added a strainer, ( like used in a jet ski ), connecting it with clear fuel line so it would lay on the bottom of the tank. This also gave me access to an additional couple gallons of fuel. Then out side the tank, where it would be easy to get to, I installed a clear inline fuel filter. Problem solved!

The setup I used was a high pressure inline fuel pump, an adjustable regulator with a return line back to the tank all connected with flexible stainless steel fuel lines and AN-6 fittings.

It turns out the engine doesn't know the difference and runs great, ( NOW )

FISHSTICKER · Post by **FISHSTICKER** » Sun Mar 17, 2019 6:13 pm

Good deal. I may try the same.

And post some pics of your boat

Slidin Gator · Post by **Slidin Gator** » Sun Mar 17, 2019 8:14 pm

skinnypockets wrote:The setup I used was a high pressure inline fuel pump, an adjustable regulator with a return line back to the tank all connected with stainless steel fuel lines and AN-6 fittings.:

Skinny,

Ever since your thread I have wondered about fuel temp being an issue and thinking that is the reason GM put an ECU controlled, demand pump on the system. High pressure and a relief style regulator makes a good fuel system heater, probably a good thing in Alaska, not Fla. Worst case, I can envision needing an oil cooler in the fuel return line.

Just wondering if you let it idle with a low tank for a long time, does the fuel heat up?

skinnypockets · Post by **skinnypockets** » Sun Mar 17, 2019 9:20 pm

FISHSTICKER, I plan on posting some pictures but first I need to re-educate myself on how to do it. I haven't posted a picture in years and I've slept sense then.

Slidin Gator, Good point but I don't see that as a problem. There's quite a few high performance automotive fuel systems set up with a regulated bypass. Also, it starts so easy every time that I never need to let it idle. I've put about 15 hours on it sense adding the strainer and inline filter with zero fuel problems.

I was cautioned by someone in a previous post about dumping fuel back into the tank causing it to foam. I fixed that by extending the return line from where it goes into the top of the tank down to the bottom using a flexible line inside the tank.

FISHSTICKER · Post by **FISHSTICKER** » Sun Mar 17, 2019 10:07 pm

I had the same posting problem i haven’t used a hosting site since photobucket and could not get my photos to work thru Dropbox. I set up and IMGUR account. It was very intuitive for me. If you go that route I can help.

br,lc,LA · Post by **br,lc,LA** » Mon Mar 18, 2019 5:32 pm

No issues with fuel heating at all... been running a Bosch 044 @ 58psi and Aeromotive return regulator. Regulator is on the return side and the fuel rail is a flow thru not a dead end. There is enough volume in the tank to keep it cool most of the time, also running E85 so fuel system run cooler.

Return side must be submerged and its good to have the supply submerged so any air goes out the top and doesn't make it to the supply system.

skinnypockets · Post by **skinnypockets** » Mon Mar 18, 2019 9:10 pm

FISHSTICKER wrote:I had the same posting problem i haven’t used a hosting site since photobucket and could not get my photos to work thru Dropbox. I set up and IMGUR account. It was very intuitive for me. If you go that route I can help.

Well I set up a imgar account but that's as far as I got. Guess I'll work on it some more tomorrow.

skinnypockets · Post by **skinnypockets** » Tue Mar 19, 2019 7:23 pm

Well, Here it is with the help of my granddaughter

The Yellow B"t"h, (named by my jealous wife), Maiden Voyage Dec 2018

12 ft Glass Sled with 2.2 Ecotec, Power engine trim, 6 Blade Warp Drive, Air Ride Side by Side Seating and Rotator Gearbox