408 Ford stroker build underway! Direct drive

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Andy
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Re: 408 Ford stroker build underway! Direct drive

Postby Andy » Sun Nov 04, 2018 5:07 pm

I'm with Slidin gator. Anxious to see some actual numbers.

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Re: 408 Ford stroker build underway! Direct drive

Postby hdsadey » Sun Nov 04, 2018 9:32 pm

Thanks guys! Damn dog has to go to vet for a hematoma in his ear, gonna cost me my dyno money right now, but he's my boy and gotta get him fixed up so he can ride with!
02 Predator 12' 0320 Lycoming
92 Big O 13' Ford 408 Windsor DD Dry Runnin MOFO!
99 Donzi 16 Classic 350 Vortec

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Re: 408 Ford stroker build underway! Direct drive

Postby hdsadey » Sun Nov 25, 2018 7:43 pm

Finally dropping off the engine in the morning at the dyno. Should have numbers in a few days. Plan on pulling it from 1500 to 5000 rpms. Wanna see where peak is and where it runs out of steam.
02 Predator 12' 0320 Lycoming
92 Big O 13' Ford 408 Windsor DD Dry Runnin MOFO!
99 Donzi 16 Classic 350 Vortec

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Re: 408 Ford stroker build underway! Direct drive

Postby hdsadey » Wed Nov 28, 2018 9:05 pm

So the numbers are in. Peak HP at 4800 rpm was 428 hp. Peak TQ was at 3600 rpm is 527 ft-lbs. At 3000 rpm it made 297 hp and 507 tq. He was having a hard time pulling it down lower because it was loading up the plugs. The engine wouldn't clean the plugs. Could have maybe used a hotter set of plugs and maybe made more power. Didn't want to keep pulling on the engine it being so fresh. I'm very please with the results. When I get the print outs I will post them. I will be calling Andrew at Waterwalker about making sure the blades I have are the best choice. These are damn near stock 500 Caddy numbers! Woohoo!!!!!!
02 Predator 12' 0320 Lycoming
92 Big O 13' Ford 408 Windsor DD Dry Runnin MOFO!
99 Donzi 16 Classic 350 Vortec

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keys2pines
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Re: 408 Ford stroker build underway! Direct drive

Postby keys2pines » Thu Nov 29, 2018 7:52 am

hdsadey wrote:So the numbers are in. Peak HP at 4800 rpm was 428 hp. Peak TQ was at 3600 rpm is 527 ft-lbs. At 3000 rpm it made 297 hp and 507 tq. He was having a hard time pulling it down lower because it was loading up the plugs. The engine wouldn't clean the plugs. Could have maybe used a hotter set of plugs and maybe made more power. Didn't want to keep pulling on the engine it being so fresh. I'm very please with the results. When I get the print outs I will post them. I will be calling Andrew at Waterwalker about making sure the blades I have are the best choice. These are damn near stock 500 Caddy numbers! Woohoo!!!!!!

Very nice! That's going to be a strong DD engine.
12x6'8" Taylor deckover, 383 DD, 72" Sensenich JM
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Re: 408 Ford stroker build underway! Direct drive

Postby hdsadey » Thu Nov 29, 2018 8:22 am

It carried over 500 ft-lbs. of t orque from 3000 to 4200 rpms! Damn flat torque curve. Going to get a cheap hanging scale to weigh it vs. the 302 coming off. Mike Broadway at Competition Motorsports is where it was dynoed and he agreed that the 302 probably don't make 300 hp at peak power let alone 3000. He estimates it probably makes maybe 150 hp and 200 ft-lbs at 3000. So I think I blew it out of the water!
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02 Predator 12' 0320 Lycoming
92 Big O 13' Ford 408 Windsor DD Dry Runnin MOFO!
99 Donzi 16 Classic 350 Vortec

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Slidin Gator
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Re: 408 Ford stroker build underway! Direct drive

Postby Slidin Gator » Thu Nov 29, 2018 6:28 pm

Those are plow pulling figures for sure. Refresh our memory on the build. Can you summarize the specs as dyno tested? Unfortunately all your test data is above the planned prop speed. It would be better to see torque falling at 3000 RPM and above in this instance. I am wondering if it might have too much carb given the fouling issues described and torque curve??

Understand the hesitation to hit her too hard while breaking in.
I grew up thinking I-10 was the Mason Dixon line.
1986 Airboat Engineering Inc., 14' Marsh Master. Refreshed narrow deck, SV O-540, 72” NGQ. A Bob Stossel original.

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Re: 408 Ford stroker build underway! Direct drive

Postby hdsadey » Thu Nov 29, 2018 9:56 pm

Yeah I wanted to have it pulled down to 2000 but it wouldn't clean up below 3000. Mike prefers to pull them from a low RPM instead of yanking them down from a higher speed, says it's very hard on the rotating assembly and could be harmful. It was definitely over carbed but since I run a Fitech injection system I just wanted ballpark numbers with a carb. I'm positive it will make more power with the correct AFR's when the injection system is dialed in.


The build:
1983 351 Windsor block bored .030
Eagle 4.000 Cast Steel crank
Eagle 6.200 SIR Forged I-beam rods
Icon Forged Flat top pistons +11.00cc
Hastings file fit rings
Edelbrock E-Street heads 170cc intake runners 60cc chambers
Edelbrock Performer intake manifold
Bullet Solid lifter camshaft
Engineworks Solid lifters
Comp Cams Double roller timing chain
Engineworks hardened pushrods
Engineworks 1.6 stainless roller rockers
PRW SFI 28oz. Harmonic balancer
Melling M-83 standard volume oil pump
Summit front sump oil pan
Engineworks RTR billet distributor
Engineworks coil
Taylor ignition wires
Champion plugs
Ford racing valve covers
Fel-pro gaskets
ARP head bolts
ARP Stainless engine bolt kit
Clevite main, rod, and cam bearings
Duplicolor New Ford Blue engine paint

Block:
Baked
Shot-peened
Bored .030 over
Align honed
Decked / pistons .010 in the hole
.0025 clearance on main bearings
.002 clearance on rod bearings
.003 clearance piston to wall
Rings gapped at .018
Rotating assembly balanced to within 7 grams
10:1 compression
190 psi cylinder pressure
Timing at 30 degrees
Valve lash .014 in./.016 ex. hot

I'm sure I'm missing something but there's the list.
$5500 total in parts.
Would be somewhere around $2000 in labor to build.

I have stainless steel 1 5/8 tubing and 3/8 exhaust flanges on order to make new custom headers. It'll be a few more weeks before I can test it out because of having to build the headers.
Last edited by hdsadey on Fri Nov 30, 2018 8:42 am, edited 1 time in total.
02 Predator 12' 0320 Lycoming
92 Big O 13' Ford 408 Windsor DD Dry Runnin MOFO!
99 Donzi 16 Classic 350 Vortec

SWAMPHUNTER45
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Re: 408 Ford stroker build underway! Direct drive

Postby SWAMPHUNTER45 » Fri Nov 30, 2018 7:19 am

Cool build, I would try a 72 Q (2) blade set at 3,000 static.

I wonder what the dyno would have showed with less duration in that cam ?

hdsadey
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Re: 408 Ford stroker build underway! Direct drive

Postby hdsadey » Fri Nov 30, 2018 2:48 pm

Thanks Gator and Swamp. The dyno results are unfortunately not accurate down low. I really believe it's going to pick up power on the boat with the injection system. The prop pitch should tell a better story. I might wanna try the Q sometime. I talk to Andrew at Waterwalker yesterday about the Sig blades I got, he was impressed by the power numbers and said it should be a rocket. Hopefully shortly I will find out! :D He also said if I was to put a 1.7 box and a Falcon on, it would be unbelievable!
02 Predator 12' 0320 Lycoming
92 Big O 13' Ford 408 Windsor DD Dry Runnin MOFO!
99 Donzi 16 Classic 350 Vortec

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Slidin Gator
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Re: 408 Ford stroker build underway! Direct drive

Postby Slidin Gator » Sat Dec 01, 2018 10:20 am

I can spot you a 72” Q and hub to test.
I grew up thinking I-10 was the Mason Dixon line.
1986 Airboat Engineering Inc., 14' Marsh Master. Refreshed narrow deck, SV O-540, 72” NGQ. A Bob Stossel original.

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Andy
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Re: 408 Ford stroker build underway! Direct drive

Postby Andy » Sun Dec 02, 2018 5:56 am

Those are good numbers. You should be impressed with performance!

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Re: 408 Ford stroker build underway! Direct drive

Postby flcracker9 » Mon Dec 03, 2018 8:37 am

The numbers look great, I think you'll be pleased with the performance. What carb was on it for the dyno run? I don't have any experience with Water Walker, but if I was in your shoes, I would take Slidin Gator's offer on testing it with the 72" Q after you test run it with your WW. I also have a 70" Q you could borrow for testing if needed. The Q seems to be the most popular for DD applications, and as stated before, our 385" sbc with a Q runs damn good wet or dry. Keep us posted!
12' Open Palm Beach, IO-0470-L 260hp, 72" NGQ

hdsadey
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Re: 408 Ford stroker build underway! Direct drive

Postby hdsadey » Tue Dec 04, 2018 11:22 am

750 Holley. Probably would have done better with a 600. Since I have fuel injection we didn't bother with finding the appropriate size carb. If I do the math with the torque numbers at 2800 it would have made somewhere in the 260 hp neighborhood assuming the torque decrease below 3000 was close to the increase at 3200. I figured 500ft-lb at 2800.

500 × 2800 ÷ 5252 = 266 hp

This is running dirty with loaded up plugs so it might jump up a few points with good AFRs.
02 Predator 12' 0320 Lycoming
92 Big O 13' Ford 408 Windsor DD Dry Runnin MOFO!
99 Donzi 16 Classic 350 Vortec

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Slidin Gator
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Re: 408 Ford stroker build underway! Direct drive

Postby Slidin Gator » Tue Dec 04, 2018 1:50 pm

That should put you somewhere between the 2 to 3 mark on the 72" Q. Probably closer to 3 once you tune it in.

My only comment on the build is the solid lifters, I got tired of them years ago. Obviously you like to tinker, so those give you something to tinker with. Carry spare push rods and rocker arms in your boat box.
I grew up thinking I-10 was the Mason Dixon line.
1986 Airboat Engineering Inc., 14' Marsh Master. Refreshed narrow deck, SV O-540, 72” NGQ. A Bob Stossel original.

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Re: 408 Ford stroker build underway! Direct drive

Postby hdsadey » Tue Dec 11, 2018 9:51 pm

So I got my Chinese crane scale today capable of 1100 lbs. After I tested it for accuracy by weighing myself using a short lifting strap and making a swing off of my engine hoist (lol), I hooked up the engine. The weight as dynoed minus carb and headers it comes in at 439 lbs. Assuming the cradle weighs maybe 10 lbs, it should be 429. Pretty lean for a Windsor considering they are 510 in stock iron! I will weigh the 302 coming off shortly. Time now to build the stainless headers.
Attachments
20181211_182106_Film1.jpg
02 Predator 12' 0320 Lycoming
92 Big O 13' Ford 408 Windsor DD Dry Runnin MOFO!
99 Donzi 16 Classic 350 Vortec

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Re: 408 Ford stroker build underway! Direct drive

Postby rowdy1 » Wed Dec 12, 2018 10:31 am

That is less than my 520!

hdsadey
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Re: 408 Ford stroker build underway! Direct drive

Postby hdsadey » Wed Dec 12, 2018 10:42 am

540 lyc. weighs in at 438 dry according to Wikipedia. I do believe I'm gonna be more than satisfied!
02 Predator 12' 0320 Lycoming
92 Big O 13' Ford 408 Windsor DD Dry Runnin MOFO!
99 Donzi 16 Classic 350 Vortec

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Slidin Gator
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Re: 408 Ford stroker build underway! Direct drive

Postby Slidin Gator » Wed Dec 12, 2018 6:08 pm

That’s about right for the 300 HP IO-540 angle valve motors. Knock about 40 lbs off for the 250 Hp O-540 straight valve motors.

Add 20 lbs worth of oil for wet weight, same as a case of beer.
I grew up thinking I-10 was the Mason Dixon line.
1986 Airboat Engineering Inc., 14' Marsh Master. Refreshed narrow deck, SV O-540, 72” NGQ. A Bob Stossel original.

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Re: 408 Ford stroker build underway! Direct drive

Postby flcracker9 » Thu Dec 13, 2018 8:17 am

Gotta be pretty happy with that final "wet" weight? Can't wait till you water test it. Pretty sure you're gonna sh_t a twinkie when you see how fast it jumps up on a plane compaired to your old 302. Keep up the posts!
12' Open Palm Beach, IO-0470-L 260hp, 72" NGQ

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Re: 408 Ford stroker build underway! Direct drive

Postby hdsadey » Sun Dec 16, 2018 6:22 pm

Got a chance to start fabbing headers today. 1 5/8 stainless with 3/8 thick flanges. Should work pretty good. Gettin real excited about swapping motors now!
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02 Predator 12' 0320 Lycoming
92 Big O 13' Ford 408 Windsor DD Dry Runnin MOFO!
99 Donzi 16 Classic 350 Vortec

flcracker9
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Re: 408 Ford stroker build underway! Direct drive

Postby flcracker9 » Mon Dec 17, 2018 11:47 am

That's some nice work right there! Obviously, your shop is much better equipped than my garage!
12' Open Palm Beach, IO-0470-L 260hp, 72" NGQ

hdsadey
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Re: 408 Ford stroker build underway! Direct drive

Postby hdsadey » Mon Dec 17, 2018 12:27 pm

Thank you sir! Years of collecting tools. I hate having to find someone to do things, prefer to learn myself.
02 Predator 12' 0320 Lycoming
92 Big O 13' Ford 408 Windsor DD Dry Runnin MOFO!
99 Donzi 16 Classic 350 Vortec

hdsadey
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Re: 408 Ford stroker build underway! Direct drive

Postby hdsadey » Fri Jan 18, 2019 5:24 pm

Today is the day! Started around 11 this morning. Got the 302 off and weighed. 408 lbs. That's about 21 lbs. less than the new engine. This is sure to be a stump puller with what I'm sure is double the power! We are getting a new dyno at the machine shop where I work and want to run the old 302 to make a real power comparison. The 408 is on and mocked up. Need a few parts to complete the installation.
Attachments
20190118_162348.jpg
20190118_162353.jpg
20190118_162407.jpg
20190118_135509.jpg
02 Predator 12' 0320 Lycoming
92 Big O 13' Ford 408 Windsor DD Dry Runnin MOFO!
99 Donzi 16 Classic 350 Vortec

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NorthWestFloridaBoy
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Re: 408 Ford stroker build underway! Direct drive

Postby NorthWestFloridaBoy » Fri Jan 18, 2019 11:19 pm

Love this build. I can't wait to see video of your boat running. I enjoy seeing some variety out there. Just remember though, more torque, more prop, more thrust pushing on that crank. I hope it holds together under the enormous amount of pressure that it's about to be subjected to once you pitch it down enough to choke that motor back. That prop is gonna be freaking pushing man! I would've killed to have that much torque down low on my old 350dd boat I had. It was lucky to be doing 280 lbf or so at 3000. I love it though, keep us informed on the progress


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