OX Box Bolt Up

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EastBay
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OX Box Bolt Up

Post by EastBay »

Hello,
Need a bit of help here. Probably a real stupid question... I have a LS 6.2 with an OX box gear reduction. How many allen head bolts connect it to the engine block. See many bolt holes in the OX box housing, but it looks like only 5 threads holes into the engine block that line up with the ox box housing. Do not have it off, just trying to determine if all the required bolts are installed.
Thank you any help appreciated.
Eastpoint
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Slidin Gator
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Re: OX Box Bolt Up

Post by Slidin Gator »

EastBay,

That box has bolt holes for multiple engines due to different transmission bell housing patterns. Back in the 60's there were 2 primary bell housing patterns, BOP (Buick, Oldsmobile, Pontiac) and Chevy. Back in the day, they all teamed up on the Turbo hydramatic transmission and it was produced in both bell housing patterns. In the 70's, once GM had bought up all these competitors, they standardized on the 6 bolt Chevy pattern. Over the years since, Chevy further modified the 6 bolt pattern to the 5 bolt pattern on the LS engines.

Just last year I bought a BOP pattern turbo 350 transmission and gutted it, moving all the parts to a Chevy pattern transmission case. I need to put the old BOP case back on Ebay, at 50+ years old, it is officially an antique. Here is a picture of that BOP transmission case. Note that the bottom 2 holes should match up, the rest are different.

Image

Here is the 70-90's 6 bolt Chevy pattern.

Image

Finally, here is a picture of the bolt pattern on my 6.2L Chevy, which should be identical to your engine. The 4 lower holes are the same as the previous Chevy pattern and the 5th hole is at 12 O-Clock.

Image
I still think I-10 is the Mason Dixon line.
2013 Mike Stossel Boats, 13' x 7' deck over, IO-540, 74" NGQ less winglets.
One Eyed Gator
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Re: OX Box Bolt Up

Post by One Eyed Gator »

There 2 on either side of the stud down low and 1 up top. So 5
BTW Make sure you get the flexplate to drive plate correct. Needs to exact with the hard-drive plate oxbox uses.
JLP3314
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Re: OX Box Bolt Up

Post by JLP3314 »

Asking for a friend... :lol:

Does it have any bolt holes for a Ford or does the Ox Box still require an adapter for that?
Don't waste your time-its the only thing you can't get back, (Cntry141IQ/John had another thousand of these before he went sliding into the sky). :-(
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Deano
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Re: OX Box Bolt Up

Post by Deano »

To my knowledge, the only time you can avoid the adapter scenario is by using a belt drive as opposed to a gear drive.
Century does in fact make housings for some Ford patterns, which could be an advantage if you have yet to buy a prop.
"The suppression of uncomfortable ideas may be common in religion and politics,
but it is not the path to knowledge; it has no place in the endeavor of science."
- Carl Sagan
EastBay
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Re: OX Box Bolt Up

Post by EastBay »

Hello,
Thanks Slidin Gator..always interesting to learn more.
After further investigation on my Ox Box mounting, the two lower holes on each side is correct. However, the fifth bolt mounts at lets say 10 0' clock. Appreciate all the help. I assume the torque was to be 15 ft lbs since the block is aluminum? Using Loctite since some were loose!
BTW nice photos!
Thanks again,
Eastpoint'
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Slidin Gator
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Re: OX Box Bolt Up

Post by Slidin Gator »

Is there a hole in the box for the bolt hole at 12 o-clock on the block (See picture of the 6.2L previously posted)?

I do not know what the torque spec is, do you have a manual you can check?? 15 ft-lbs is pretty low. The threads in the block are metric M-10, make sure you are using the correct bolts as 3/8-16 is real close, but a hair smaller. 3/8-16 bolts can be threaded into the M-10 holes but they will come loose and eventually strip out the threads. I drilled mine out and re-tapped them for 3/8-16 Helicoils so I can torque them good, no worries about stripping aluminum. You definitely do not want those bolts loose!
I still think I-10 is the Mason Dixon line.
2013 Mike Stossel Boats, 13' x 7' deck over, IO-540, 74" NGQ less winglets.
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Slidin Gator
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Re: OX Box Bolt Up

Post by Slidin Gator »

Eastbay,

Just to be clear, I have never dealt with a gear box and do not presently own one. I am in the market for sure, so you are helping me here. Please post several pictures of your setup.

I do have experience with 2000 era Chevy trucks. This is a picture of my son's 4L60 transmission that mates to a 5.3. The upper Passenger side bolt hole is not used and Chevy had to add another mount point at 12 o-clock. I am wondering if the OX or any boxes support the 12 o-clock mount hole :scratch:

Image

If you go back through the bell housing history pics posted previously, the BOP pattern is history and the Chevy 6 bolt pattern ruled until the LS. The New LS pattern maintains the 4 lower holes and centering studs from the Chevy pattern (circled in Orange below). They also kept the Drivers side (Port Side) upper hole circled in blue below. But they eliminated the upper tapped hole on the passenger side (Stbd side on the boat), circled in black below. They replaced this with a new tapped hole at 12 O-Clock, circled in purple below.

I think that a tapped hole in the black circled area would punch into the #8 water jacket. I can only imagine the meetings they must have had at GM discussing the implications of modifying the transmission bell housing pattern to save XX on the engine. The folks I know in the industry tell me they would have all day meetings, 10-20 folks, just to decide to spend a penny on a new car/truck, modifying the bell housing would mean a bunch of pennies.

Image

Finally, the hole circled in red is the block ground point.

A couple pictures of the first modification I made to my block. Drill and tap the Bell housing bolt holes. If you have never used Aluminum Magic, you gotta try it.

Image

As stated previously, the standard bell housing thread on the LS is M10-1.5. An M10 thread is only 0.010" larger than a 3/8" thread and the pitch equates to 16.9 threads per inch, so it is very close to 3/8-16 (UNC). The bolts normally used should be heat treated metric, look for "8.8" or "10.9" printed on the head to confirm. In my case, I installed 3/8-16 Helicoils. This is due to my habit of carrying an electric impact to work on stuff at night. I would have those aluminum threads screwed up in no time :banghead:

Red Loctite to set the Helicoils, then blue on the actual bolts. Use the longest that will fit. I will definitely be torquing my box higher than 15 ft-lbs!

Image
I still think I-10 is the Mason Dixon line.
2013 Mike Stossel Boats, 13' x 7' deck over, IO-540, 74" NGQ less winglets.
EastBay
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Re: OX Box Bolt Up

Post by EastBay »

Hello,
Thank again...photos are great.
Will take photos of my OX Box and post for you.
Did torque bolts to 185 inch lbs...with blue locite.
Did a a lot of research one time on thread lubricants and sealers...info is on internet..typically any thing applied makes torque for higher torque than dry...even if wrench indicates the same.
Will try to post photos in the next day or so...
New to airboats...but a lot of experience with engines from cars motorcycles, and
boats. Worked at an high performance engine shop when I got out of school...damn did I learn a lot!
Thanks again for your info!
Looking to talk with you a lot in time!
Sincerely,
Eastpoint
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Slidin Gator
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Re: OX Box Bolt Up

Post by Slidin Gator »

Torque specifications are always based on using a clean, lubricated bolt and hole. As you note, dry threads require more torque for the same clamping force and the result is more variable vs. lubricated. Loctite is a lubricant during installation, it is also an anti-galling compound.

I am interested in the basis for 15 ft-lbs as I still believe that is too low. Do you have a manual for that box? Transmission bell housing to engine torque specs range 35-75 ft-lbs.
I still think I-10 is the Mason Dixon line.
2013 Mike Stossel Boats, 13' x 7' deck over, IO-540, 74" NGQ less winglets.
EastBay
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Re: OX Box Bolt Up

Post by EastBay »

Hello Slidin Gator,
As far a torque goes a fellow air boater thought it was 15 FT LBS. The spark plugs are 15 and the t-stat neck was also 15. As to the reference mark before I removed bolts lined back up at 15. Ox Box in instructions did not have any recommendations.
Manuals are near impossible to get for these engines!
See photos of my Ox Box bolt up.
Thanks again. Let me know if you find out more on the torque issue.
Eastpoint
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EastBay
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Re: OX Box Bolt Up

Post by EastBay »

Hello Slidin Gator,
Check this out:
http://www.crankshaftcoalition.com/wiki ... 0)_BBS.pdf

Looks like trans bolt up is 37 FT LBS... review and let me know what you think.
Thanks again,
Eastpoint
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Slidin Gator
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Re: OX Box Bolt Up

Post by Slidin Gator »

Yes, I found the same from summit, 37 ft-lbs transmission bolts specifically for the L92 block.

https://help.summitracing.com/app/answe ... rque-specs

I would still be interested in hearing from anyone else that actually knows, but 37 ft-lbs sounds much more reasonable for the application. You should have something like 1" of thread engagement, if the bolts are too short there is a good chance of stripping out the threads.

Worst case you strip the thread out and have to Helicoil the threads, making for a much stronger connection. I just prefer to skip the stripped thread step since it always happens when I'm trying to get ready to go somewhere.
I still think I-10 is the Mason Dixon line.
2013 Mike Stossel Boats, 13' x 7' deck over, IO-540, 74" NGQ less winglets.
EastBay
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Re: OX Box Bolt Up

Post by EastBay »

Hello Slidin Gator,
Guess I should put another turn on the Ox Box bolts!
Thanks again.
Like the fact you and I look at this site often!
Eastpoint
FISHSTICKER
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Re: OX Box Bolt Up

Post by FISHSTICKER »

Eastbay, are the dowel pins still in the block? I can't tell. If they are not I would consider putting some back in. In My opinion those are important for proper alignment.
EastBay
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Re: OX Box Bolt Up

Post by EastBay »

Hello,
Thank you for all your input. Pulled all the bolts one at a time. Cleaned them...medium Blue Loctite. With a 20% dry torque reduction of a dry 37 ft lbs...which is 30....torqued the bolt to 32 ft lbs ...just a touch above the 30 ft lbs . Engine is basically new at 38 hours....would imagine the dowels are in.
Not feeling good about the Levitator engines.
Any input very welcome.
Eastpoint
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Slidin Gator
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Re: OX Box Bolt Up

Post by Slidin Gator »

Eastbay,

The 37 ft-lb spec is a lubricated torque spec, 32 sounds close enough. Look into the large hole between the 2 lower holes on either side. This is the dowel hole, you should be able to see and/or feel the dowels. Look back at my previous pictures and you will see the dowels pressed into the blocks. I think I see them in your pics, but it is not clear.

I have no particular knowledge or experience with Levitator or PCM engines. It is my understanding that they are GM crate long blocks with PCM controls, tuning, supercharger/intake and accessories. Since I just got done gutting a perfectly good, almost new crate L92 in order to install a new forged rotating group etc., I guess it is fair to say I wouldn't buy one. But that's just me cause I'ma gonna give er hell.
I still think I-10 is the Mason Dixon line.
2013 Mike Stossel Boats, 13' x 7' deck over, IO-540, 74" NGQ less winglets.
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