A few basic questions to get me started

Airboats with smaller powerplants.
Dezl_dr
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A few basic questions to get me started

Postby Dezl_dr » Sat Nov 24, 2012 7:59 pm

I wanted to build an airboat since a was a kid. I seen one with a vw motor on it and just had to build one.
The problem, this was 30 years ago, no Internet research back then.
My plan was a John boat, vw motor and wood prop. I ask a guy I knew about what prop for the vw motor. I bought a 60x30 prop, had a flywheel mount made for my motor.
I did have a way to start it and never went any further. My motor is locked up and the prop is still in the box stored in my closet.
I found Its way under powered it compared to the 454 Chevy ones I've seen.

At this point all I have is a prop, I could fix the motor but still have no starter.

1 what kind of thrust will this 60x30 prop make?
2 what hp would it take to turn it?

I'm thinking of a 35hp Briggs and a belt reduction but I want a s much thrust my prop will push, is that enough motor?

John boat of what size or make my own?

papajack
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Re: A few basic questions to get me started

Postby papajack » Sun Nov 25, 2012 6:27 am

One of my minis is a 14' Dixon Twister with a Briggs 35 1.67:1 reduction and a 60x32 Sensenitch stick prop. My understanding is that you probably don't want the prop length longer than the boat width. There are a few mini experts on this site that may jump in on this thread, but first I would suggest that you read the threads in the mini forum. The answers to many of your questions will be found there.

Welcome to the madness and good luck. Its all good!!!

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skinny99
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Re: A few basic questions to get me started

Postby skinny99 » Sun Nov 25, 2012 8:41 am

Search Cntry141iq's posts. He has done the VW thing to death.

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cntry141iq
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Re: A few basic questions to get me started

Postby cntry141iq » Sun Nov 25, 2012 8:59 am

LOL man if you got a jones goin for a VW .. I can ease your suffering .... I have just what you need guaranteed. Drop me a PM with your number. You can get 135 hp roughly and get about 8mpg outta one ... can't do that with a 454 LOL build it light build using best engine parts you can afford first time .. or second time if you don't do it the first time and have fun ... I have a couple of 2 to 1 belt drives that go on the flywheel side ... I have a couple that go on the pulley side ... I have a couple sets of heads and few flywheels and some cylinders and pistons and rods and core engines ... I even have a new set of metal works for the VW with reduction setup powder coated in black.

I can ease your sufferin ... LOL
Don't waste your time ... it is the only thing you can't get more of
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just bill
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Re: A few basic questions to get me started

Postby just bill » Sun Nov 25, 2012 9:14 am

Dezl just make sure whatever engine you go with it will have the power you're wanting.Alot of guys use them sirplus generator motors.And having built a mini I can tell you a john boat is not the way to go.YOU want the bottom rounded so it can slide and a john boat with the ribs on the bottom wont do it.Keep an eye on ebay sometime you can find a deal on a good 2stoke like a rotax something made to have a propeller on it.And what ever you end up with make sure it's wide.I made mine 4'6" wide and wish I new better befor I built it.You want a hull 5'6" to 6' wide.Mine being 4'6" I have to push my engine hard to get it to plane. Bill

Dezl_dr
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Re: A few basic questions to get me started

Postby Dezl_dr » Sun Nov 25, 2012 8:02 pm

Like most things, you don't know what you don't know.
I don't want to beat a dead horse, and after reading dozens of posts here. I was mostly wrong about what I thought.
I'll most likely build my hull, if I build a boat. The motor humm

I don't know how much power I need. Moving on wet grass would be nice.

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pipedog
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Re: A few basic questions to get me started

Postby pipedog » Sun Nov 25, 2012 9:36 pm

Dezl you said your prop is new but stored in your closet, how old is it now? A wood prop has to be stored properly, I don't know the proper way. I have seen them look new but be NO good. If it's been sitting for a while it would be a good idea to send it out to be checked out properly. Good Luck and be safe :thumbleft:
Palm Beach open hull 13'9" with 6.0 F.I. LS - Ox Box and a 3bld "R"

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Re: A few basic questions to get me started

Postby Dezl_dr » Sun Nov 25, 2012 10:19 pm

Stored in its shipping box, standing vertical. I'm sure it's fine I'll spin it up and see someday. Lol.

Thanks for thought

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Re: A few basic questions to get me started

Postby cntry141iq » Mon Nov 26, 2012 9:40 am

well stored flat would have been better for sure ... but stored inside you may be ok ... but if out of balance it only takes a few spins to know ... building a hull is do able ... you never know someones capabilities from just internet typing. Not trying to offend ..

The engines are buildable no real problem .. just depends on what you want out of one of them ... The ones I built were 2275 cc with a 2 to 1 belt drive on the flywheel side .. you gotta keep the oil cool and the engine cool a vw is not made to run without the doghouse on it and the factory oil cooler is not enough and you want extra capacity oil pan and windage tray in it ... you want to full flow the case for oil flow and use a remote automotive filter the engle 110 cam worked best .. I turned them 5000 rpms I found the single carb .. I used a holley 350 I think it was .. worked better. the duals all come with crappy linkage so you spend too much time adjusting carbs over and over. lot sof othe rlittle things done to them .. but all do able.

I was trying to make one be comparable to a small aircraft engine and I did it ... now only you know what you are expecting out of it ... where are you located at roughly and what type of stuff are you going to run in ??? it all makes a difference.

I will be glad to help as much as I can ... I think I may have the only two flywheel side beltdrives left in the world LOL that are new ...

There are better choices for engines if you are gonna run hard .. but if you have the vw or a good supply on them and like tinkering with them .. which some folks just plain love the VW sound .. they can be made to work quite well but simply snatching one out of an old car and running it direct drive with a prop will be disappointing ... you will only have about 40 hp maybe ... at roughly 3000 rpms if you can get 3000 out of it.

I worked with Ken at fisher buggies on my engines .. he is a world famous VW drag racer ... a serious racer who knows more about VW's than just about any one else I know .. I also had a friend who raced with him helping as well ...
Don't waste your time ... it is the only thing you can't get more of
.. if it accidentally looks like I gave advice please ignore it .. and notify me immediately

Dezl_dr
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Re: A few basic questions to get me started

Postby Dezl_dr » Mon Nov 26, 2012 9:33 pm

Well, sounds like the vw motor is hard and not cheap to get right. What kind of money are we looking at for the drive. Pm the numbers if there is a rule about that.

I want something to turn my 60x30 prop for all its worth, not blow up or break the bank.

As for me, I'm a mechanic by trade and went through welding school. A hull in kit form looks like the way to go but there is a metal shop next door with a fancy 20' hydraulic metal brake.

I guess an AC motor would be best but the prop is cut for the flywheel side of a vw.

I'll just make the hull match the power I guess. What I'll do with it??? Not any swamps around here, I'll play with it in the river and flood water. I'm in Ohio, lol.

6' wide and how ever long I guess.

cntry141iq
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Re: A few basic questions to get me started

Postby cntry141iq » Mon Nov 26, 2012 9:59 pm

well your cheapest bet is to use what you got for sure. I have 1400 each in the beltdives .. you would need a new prop ... and seriously I have used a 14-48 jon boat and done 180's with it at 28 mph with a briggs engine on it so they will work. I would suggest you look around and find a 16-52 jon boat and keep the rigging low in the boat and you should be fine. You can cut a transaxle apart to hold the starter and give you some mounting points ... contact Don at arrowprops.com he has done hundreds of them dd and also builds props for them.
Don't waste your time ... it is the only thing you can't get more of
.. if it accidentally looks like I gave advice please ignore it .. and notify me immediately

Dezl_dr
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Re: A few basic questions to get me started

Postby Dezl_dr » Tue Nov 27, 2012 10:35 pm

What about the 084 engine I've read about?
Better than the vdub?
Cheaper to get running?

papajack
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Re: A few basic questions to get me started

Postby papajack » Wed Nov 28, 2012 5:58 am

Check mini airboat parts in classified, an 084 just posted. I aint got no dog in this hunt, just sayin...

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Re: A few basic questions to get me started

Postby cntry141iq » Wed Nov 28, 2012 9:38 am

six of one half a dozen of the other .. personal preference .. more hp available from VW with a belt drive ... the words cheap and airboats seldom get used together .. LOL
Don't waste your time ... it is the only thing you can't get more of
.. if it accidentally looks like I gave advice please ignore it .. and notify me immediately

Dezl_dr
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Re: A few basic questions to get me started

Postby Dezl_dr » Wed Nov 28, 2012 8:12 pm

Well Darn. I'm looking at a rotax, but with a gear box my prop is backwards.

All options are on the table but it's looking like a briggs 35 and a home made belt reduction. Not sure the VW is worth it to me, Maybe if I find a cheap like new 084.
Or just leave the prop in the closet. LOL

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skinny99
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Re: A few basic questions to get me started

Postby skinny99 » Wed Nov 28, 2012 8:47 pm

I sure wouldn't base my whole boat build on a $200 prop.
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Re: A few basic questions to get me started

Postby Dezl_dr » Wed Nov 28, 2012 8:57 pm

Yea, well that's kind of the idea. Follow threw on a childhood dream. Otherwise it just isn't worth it around here. I've got a couple Jet Ski's, one of those is 250 HP. My dad and I built a 500HP jetboat also and we never really run that much.

I thought I could build a boat cheap for me and my son to work on and play with. Other than that I really have no need for an air boat. A couple of grand would be OK, more than that it'll have to wait.

I appreciate the comments.

cntry141iq
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Re: A few basic questions to get me started

Postby cntry141iq » Wed Nov 28, 2012 9:20 pm

it would be a good project for you and your kid for sure .. it seems to me my last wood prop on a 35 briggs was a 60 28 .. in fact I still got a couple of them out in my shop stored horizontally LOL of course. I went to 3 blade warp drives ^0" and whirlwind two blade mini prop (wider blades and a bit longer) all adjustable. Keep in mind if you get everything set amd you run it and it starts gaining rpms .. you probably didnt magically find more power ... your belts are slipping.
Don't waste your time ... it is the only thing you can't get more of
.. if it accidentally looks like I gave advice please ignore it .. and notify me immediately

Dezl_dr
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Re: A few basic questions to get me started

Postby Dezl_dr » Wed Nov 28, 2012 9:35 pm

Lol, I've seen burn outs and sled pulls go the same way. But it was clutch slippage. Until the smell hits you.

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Re: A few basic questions to get me started

Postby aimeusdietger » Tue Sep 18, 2018 3:14 pm

Dezl_dr wrote:I wanted to build an airboat since a was a kid. I seen one with a vw motor on it and just had to build one.
The problem, this was 30 years ago, no Internet research back then. top manufacturers of drawer slides | GSF Promounts
My plan was a John boat, vw motor and wood prop. I ask a guy I knew about what prop for the vw motor. I bought a 60x30 prop, had a flywheel mount made for my motor.
I did have a way to start it and never went any further. My motor is locked up and the prop is still in the box stored in my closet.
I found Its way under powered it compared to the 454 Chevy ones I've seen.

At this point you can try Texas counties shapefile | svekenyasafaritours.com | contact masai mara safari packages from india here all I have is a prop, I could fix the motor but still have no starter.

1 what kind of thrust will this 60x30 prop make?
2 what hp would it take to turn it?

I'm thinking visit our title 24 consultant page | open title 24 calculations url | navigate to calgreen checklist | do you know cal title 24? of a 35hp Briggs and a belt reduction but I want a s much thrust my prop will push, is that enough motor?

John boat of what size or make my own?


I built a toy airboat from scratch and i've used it on dams and small water bodies from time to time and i'm now seeing this challenge that you took up and i'm thinking of dreaming big and starting my own project. I'll probably go lower than the 35hp though
Last edited by aimeusdietger on Tue Mar 12, 2019 6:15 am, edited 3 times in total.

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Deano
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Re: A few basic questions to get me started

Postby Deano » Wed Sep 19, 2018 8:51 am

Everybody's definitions of most anything are based on their experience or when experience is lacking, their perceptions.
Be aware (if you didn't notice) that this is a six year old thread that kind of 'died on the vine' so to speak.

While there is a lot of good information in this thread, it is only fair to point out the prevailing reality that the
Laws of Physics RARELY yield to a mans intent or desires (read that as never, which is a word I try to avoid).

A wiser man than me already pointed out that ".. the words cheap and airboats seldom get used together ..".
To that I would add, ". . . dreaming big and starting with less than 35 hp . . ." is a good way to acquire a heartburn that won't go away.

Don't mean to sound like a preacher of doom, but rather to point out the size of CHALLENGE you are debating so that
your 'dreaming big' remains in the neighborhood of doable and attainable. There is no need in re-inventing the wheel
while you think you will be the one to finally whip the Laws of Physics into shape to do your bidding.

You maybe already know all that, if so, ignore all of what I posted and get 'er done. There is plenty of help here to be had.
I'd like to see you successfully do it, but don't want you to waste the time and $$ to create another half of a build thread.
"The suppression of uncomfortable ideas may be common in religion and politics,
but it is not the path to knowledge; it has no place in the endeavor of science."
- Carl Sagan

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Re: A few basic questions to get me started

Postby Air canada » Sun Sep 23, 2018 9:29 pm

i have a mini pro 116 and love the hull I think dragon fly airboats sell that hull now I'd start there. and the 35 vanguard with century Biggs mini reduction with adjustable two blade whirl wind prop works good. I'm selling my prop engine and reduction this fall if anyone is looking for that setup
:canada:


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