Advice for buildin aluminium hull.

Airboats with smaller powerplants.
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M0RYAK
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Re: Advise for buildin aluminium hull.

Post by M0RYAK »

My engine.
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Slidin Gator
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Re: Advise for buildin aluminium hull.

Post by Slidin Gator »

Moryak,
After re-reading your earlier posts, I find the following for info:
M0RYAK wrote:I will use engine from motorcycle Honda CBR1100XX with gear box - 150 HP, max rpm 11000. I have possibility use reduction 5.1 or 3.4. I think cruise rpm will be 7000-8000, but sometimes i can increase until 11000.
M0RYAK wrote:My engine wight - 190 lbs,Hull - 360 lbs, plus 2 peopls - 240 lbs each, fuel - 50 ltrs, eqipment about 100 lbs. Total about - 1200 lbs.
I also did the minimum amount of research into the engine, in other words I looked at wikipedia...
I assume the 190 lbs includes the gear box, with 150 +/- hp you will have a great power to weight package!

As for gear ratios, keep in mind that you are going to need to settle on a single gear ratio. Even if you can manage to shift on the fly, the difference between 1st and 2nd is too much to spin a given prop with a fixed pitch over the speed range you will achieve (even 50+ mph).

You can pretty much forget about the 5.1:1 first gear. That ratio would be good to drive a monster prop for pulling a plow, but it won't meet your stated goal of high speed on open water.
11,000/5.1 = 2,157 prop RPM (applicable to a 75". 1,900 mm or larger prop).

The 3.4 ratio is about right to match your needs, but given that information I think you should consider a smaller prop diameter (69") and 4 blades. The smaller diameter prop will give you a higher top end speed.

8000/3.4 = 2,353 prop RPM (good match to the 69", 1,750 mm prop for a cruise RPM)
9,350/3.4 = 2,750 prop RPM (applicable to the 71", 1,800 mm prop)
9,520/3.4 = 2,800 prop RPM (applicable to the 69", 1,750 mm prop)
11,000/3.4 = 3,325 prop RPM, (too high for any prop of a reasonable size)

I suggest you call the prop vendor to discuss your specific application further.
https://aeroprop.aero/en/
I still think I-10 is the Mason Dixon line.
2013 Mike Stossel Boats, 13' x 7' deck over, IO-540, 74" NGQ less winglets.

Gary S
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Re: Advise for buildin aluminium hull.

Post by Gary S »

Your not taking into consideration what the final gear ratio is going to be.

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Slidin Gator
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Re: Advise for buildin aluminium hull.

Post by Slidin Gator »

Gary S wrote:Your not taking into consideration what the final gear ratio is going to be.
You are correct if the chain drive is included, but that does not appear to be the case. From the picture I see a spider coupling direct off the gear box. Moryak said he does not intend to use a belt drive, so I believe the plan is to couple the gear box output direct to the prop shaft via some type of drive shaft.

Could be wrong, Moryak can advise more details.
I still think I-10 is the Mason Dixon line.
2013 Mike Stossel Boats, 13' x 7' deck over, IO-540, 74" NGQ less winglets.

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M0RYAK
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Re: Advise for buildin aluminium hull.

Post by M0RYAK »

Slidin Gator wrote:Moryak,
After re-reading your earlier posts, I find the following for info:
M0RYAK wrote:I will use engine from motorcycle Honda CBR1100XX with gear box - 150 HP, max rpm 11000. I have possibility use reduction 5.1 or 3.4. I think cruise rpm will be 7000-8000, but sometimes i can increase until 11000.
M0RYAK wrote:My engine wight - 190 lbs,Hull - 360 lbs, plus 2 peopls - 240 lbs each, fuel - 50 ltrs, eqipment about 100 lbs. Total about - 1200 lbs.
I also did the minimum amount of research into the engine, in other words I looked at wikipedia...
I assume the 190 lbs includes the gear box, with 150 +/- hp you will have a great power to weight package!

As for gear ratios, keep in mind that you are going to need to settle on a single gear ratio. Even if you can manage to shift on the fly, the difference between 1st and 2nd is too much to spin a given prop with a fixed pitch over the speed range you will achieve (even 50+ mph).

You can pretty much forget about the 5.1:1 first gear. That ratio would be good to drive a monster prop for pulling a plow, but it won't meet your stated goal of high speed on open water.
11,000/5.1 = 2,157 prop RPM (applicable to a 75". 1,900 mm or larger prop).

The 3.4 ratio is about right to match your needs, but given that information I think you should consider a smaller prop diameter (69") and 4 blades. The smaller diameter prop will give you a higher top end speed.

8000/3.4 = 2,353 prop RPM (good match to the 69", 1,750 mm prop for a cruise RPM)
9,350/3.4 = 2,750 prop RPM (applicable to the 71", 1,800 mm prop)
9,520/3.4 = 2,800 prop RPM (applicable to the 69", 1,750 mm prop)
11,000/3.4 = 3,325 prop RPM, (too high for any prop of a reasonable size)

I suggest you call the prop vendor to discuss your specific application further.
https://aeroprop.aero/en/
Thanks!

I sent request to "AERO" 2 weeks ago, but answer not received.

I have answer from same small factory. See below:

P.S. Just all factories make props for airplanes (speed more 80 miles).
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Last edited by M0RYAK on Wed Sep 05, 2018 1:33 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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M0RYAK
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Re: Advise for buildin aluminium hull.

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Gary S wrote:Your not taking into consideration what the final gear ratio is going to be.
Sorry? I will not use belt or chain reduction, only gearbox of motorcycle.

Like thise:
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Slidin Gator
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Re: Advise for buildin aluminium hull.

Post by Slidin Gator »

Moryak,
That is a very interesting chart. Given your power to weight ratio, I'm pretty confidant that 50-60 MPH+ (80-100 km/hr) high speed cruise is where this set up is going. What I note is that the prop chart you have so far shows prop at minimum efficiency right in the speed range of interest. Talk to the prop vendors about options to move the efficiency curve to peak around 90 km/hr and see if there are options to maximize your top end speed.

This is all getting ahead of the game, but it bounds the prop size. I suggest you design to accommodate a 72", 1,800 mm prop and proceed with the boat/hull layout. You can always go smaller on the prop, which I think you need. Designing for the larger prop design just leaves your options open for the future.
I still think I-10 is the Mason Dixon line.
2013 Mike Stossel Boats, 13' x 7' deck over, IO-540, 74" NGQ less winglets.

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M0RYAK
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Re: Advise for buildin aluminium hull.

Post by M0RYAK »

Slidin Gator wrote:Moryak,
That is a very interesting chart. Given your power to weight ratio, I'm pretty confidant that 50-60 MPH+ (80-100 km/hr) high speed cruise is where this set up is going. What I note is that the prop chart you have so far shows prop at minimum efficiency right in the speed range of interest. Talk to the prop vendors about options to move the efficiency curve to peak around 90 km/hr and see if there are options to maximize your top end speed.

This is all getting ahead of the game, but it bounds the prop size. I suggest you design to accommodate a 72", 1,800 mm prop and proceed with the boat/hull layout. You can always go smaller on the prop, which I think you need. Designing for the larger prop design just leaves your options open for the future.
I understood. I try to tolk with the prop vendors.

From prop chart abow I see what 4 blades prop had more efficiency than 3 blades prop in static, but in speed 90 km/h efficiency agree.

Speed 50-60 MPH it is very good, I hope 40-45 MPH.

I think 4 blades prop have big plus - In case of damage some blades I can make 2 blades prop.

P.S. My friend's brother have boat with 4 blades prop (same engine), He like it.
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Slidin Gator
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Re: Advise for buildin aluminium hull.

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M0RYAK wrote:I think 4 blades prop have big plus - In case of damage some blades I can make 2 blades prop.
Been there done that. All other things being equal, 4 is better than 3 for that very reason. I run wide 2 blade props, so I have to settle for a spare set in the truck, just need a ride to the ramp.
I still think I-10 is the Mason Dixon line.
2013 Mike Stossel Boats, 13' x 7' deck over, IO-540, 74" NGQ less winglets.

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M0RYAK
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Re: Advise for buildin aluminium hull.

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Slidin Gator wrote:
M0RYAK wrote:I think 4 blades prop have big plus - In case of damage some blades I can make 2 blades prop.
Been there done that. All other things being equal, 4 is better than 3 for that very reason. I run wide 2 blade props, so I have to settle for a spare set in the truck, just need a ride to the ramp.
Thanks! Understood.

I was Talk to the prop vendors about options and I have only possibility choose diameter of props, for 4 blade - max 70" and wide middle part of the blade - 4,5".
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M0RYAK
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Re: Advise for buildin aluminium hull.

Post by M0RYAK »

Hi everyone! Building of my project 13'x7' was started.
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Last edited by M0RYAK on Fri May 31, 2019 3:03 pm, edited 2 times in total.

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M0RYAK
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Re: Advise for buildin aluminium hull.

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I have additional for inside space of hull (boxes of starboard side, port side and bow), poly for bottom, guard for prop...
Now weight of my airboat 1800-2000 lbs including two peoples.
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M0RYAK
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Re: Advise for buildin aluminium hull.

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Some fotos of disign.
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SWAMPHUNTER45
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Re: Advise for buildin aluminium hull.

Post by SWAMPHUNTER45 »

Very nice

Wish you the very best with your build.

Where are you located geographically ?

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M0RYAK
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Re: Advise for buildin aluminium hull.

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SWAMPHUNTER45 wrote:Very nice

Wish you the very best with your build.

Where are you located geographically ?


Thanks! I very hope that it will work properly, (I located at Astrakhan city, Russia).

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M0RYAK
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Re: Advise for buildin aluminium hull.

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It is very dificalt when not support. All peopple (included who bilded airboat) told mi that it shold bi 5,5 m lenth and 1,5 or 2.0m widt.

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Re: Advise for buildin aluminium hull.

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gentlemen i am very glad for your support. And if your dont opposite I can continuous posted my foto for bilding another parts of my airboat in thise topic.

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Re: Advise for buildin aluminium hull.

Post by SWAMPHUNTER45 »

Stick with it. We all learn from each other's experiences.

Keep it light weight
Get a good engine to power
Match blades, engine and boat

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Slidin Gator
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Re: Advise for buildin aluminium hull.

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M0RYAK wrote:It is very dificalt when not support. All peopple (included who bilded airboat) told mi that it shold bi 5,5 m lenth and 1,5 or 2.0m widt.
18x5 feet might be good dimensions for a canoe, but you made the right choice at 13x7. The guys that built it will want their own when it’s done. :thumbleft:
I still think I-10 is the Mason Dixon line.
2013 Mike Stossel Boats, 13' x 7' deck over, IO-540, 74" NGQ less winglets.

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M0RYAK
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Re: Advise for buildin aluminium hull.

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SWAMPHUNTER45 wrote:Stick with it. We all learn from each other's experiences.

Keep it light weight
Get a good engine to power
Match blades, engine and boat

I try to complience plan, but I have aditional changes and increas weight (boxes, floor, poly).

Hull - 445 lbs.
Poly - 120lbs.
Prop guard - 67lbs.
Floor - 27lbs.
Fuel tank- 18lbs.
Engine frame - 55lbs.
Engine - 190lbs.
Rudders - 15lbs.
Propeller - 10lbs.

Total - 947lbs.

Oh! Surprice! During counter I found a mistake (1lbs = 0,45kg). First time I used 1lbs = 0,34kg it is my mistake.
Last edited by M0RYAK on Sun Sep 01, 2019 1:36 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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M0RYAK
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Re: Advise for buildin aluminium hull.

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Slidin Gator wrote:
M0RYAK wrote:It is very dificalt when not support. All peopple (included who bilded airboat) told mi that it shold bi 5,5 m lenth and 1,5 or 2.0m widt.
18x5 feet might be good dimensions for a canoe, but you made the right choice at 13x7. The guys that built it will want their own when it’s done. :thumbleft:

It is funy. But now they building airboat for another man size 11 * 5 feet engine 40 hp. I advice them make width more, but ansver negative.
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M0RYAK
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Re: Advise for buildin aluminium hull.

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Unfortunately I have a busy schedule of work and I smal time spend for bilding. Today for finish needed build bow guard (my mistake with name), floor, acselerator instalation, connection panel and ECU, prop instalation. I hope it will bi done at october when I come home.

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M0RYAK
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Re: Advise for buildin aluminium hull.

Post by M0RYAK »

Dear Sliding Gator I used your advice and call vendor of props and have a long discus I requested 4 blade prop, but he advise 3 blade prop 73" saber type. They made this prop for engine like me. And I purchaise 3 blade prop 73" with spare blade.
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Re: Advise for buildin aluminium hull.

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I nown why 4 blades. 4 blades less diametr than 3 or 2 blades can possible rotation little bit fast these moment very good for big speed run.

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Re: Advise for buildin aluminium hull.

Post by kwanjangnihm »

The boat is coming along nice Moryak! Keep the photos coming. Don't forget to include hunting & fishing pics as well......
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