Hulls: welded vs riveted

A general, non-powerplant specific, discussion on airboat technology, ie., hulls, rigging, polymer, etc..
kenderkng
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Hulls: welded vs riveted

Post by kenderkng »

i am looking at buying a hull or a complete cm boat. what are the advantages and disadvantages of having a full welded hull vs a riveted hull? i have heard riveted are stronger but will leak and a welded is less likely to leak but will "pop"?
thanks for the help

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JAMES
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Re: Hulls: welded vs riveted

Post by JAMES »

IM HAVING JB AIRBOAT BUILD MINE RIGHT NOW !! THEY WELD THEIRS LIKE ALOT OF OTHERS OUT THEIR THAT ARE OPEN HULLS THEIR ARE WAY MORE DECK BOATS OUT THEIR RIVITED ID LIKE TO NO THE ANSWER TO YOUR QUESTION AS WELL >> :P
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Re: Hulls: welded vs riveted

Post by goldhunter_2 »

they use two different alloy metals , welded uses a softer alloy and the welding requires less time and labor in the overall build therefore the cost of the welded hull is substantially cheaper then a riveted hull . because of the harder alloy used in a riveted hull it can use thinner lighter material.
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Re: Hulls: welded vs riveted

Post by junebug »

:rebel: The only difference I know..Is the Riveted aluminum is quite a bit stronger therefore You can use a thinner material and have the same strength with less weight..Welded Hulls are generally thicker I believe.. Never worked on a welded hull..

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Re: Hulls: welded vs riveted

Post by todd glover »

you can build one out of 7075t6 as thin as 80 th and have a real strong grass boat not sure it would live up north running dry all day

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Re: Hulls: welded vs riveted

Post by terrible ted »

All the ultra lights, welded i see that run the ground are beat after the first year. I can say my 1963 starcraft v hull boat is still floating and running the st johns with the original rivets and no leaks.

That boat was fun

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Re: Hulls: welded vs riveted

Post by yobee »

Riveted boats are made out of a higher grade aircraft aluminum that will become brittle when welded. It's a much stronger material so lighter gauge can be used, rivets are also stronger than welds when used in the proper application. Both can work great in the airboat world.
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Re: Hulls: welded vs riveted

Post by kenderkng »

I would assume a riveted hull would hav no rivets on the bottom so running polly or a form of slick bottom would have no worries of causing any leaks from ripping one off?
Does any one know who makes the riveted hulls or would all who make welded do riveted?
Thanks for the help with these nob questions

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Re: Hulls: welded vs riveted

Post by yobee »

There are countersunk rivets on the bottom to hold the bottom to the stringers and to hold the transom to the bottom. Typically some form of steelflex or polymer is applied. However it can be ran without it, rivets are very strong, when properly applied they will not just "rip out" without some severe persuasion lol. Most places that weld hulls do not really make riveted boats. Some of them will outsource the work to those that do though. Scorpion, Don Davis, Wardaddy and Performance airboats are just a few of the well known riveted hull builders.
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Re: Hulls: welded vs riveted

Post by HuntingBigun »

GO visit Diamondback & Gto and see how much equipment it takes to make a welded hull and then ask yourself a question why did they spend all that money for the stuff if the only way to make a deckover is to rivet the sides on to a angle. Even one of the above mentioned riveted hulls had their sides bent up at another shop

We can talk all day about softer allum bends and 7075 will crack,

Funny almost all the aluminum open hull boats are welded,so it the same bottom hitting the ground so do you see them falling apart ??

I not taking anything away from the riveted sleds they are a true work of art but they are not the only way to build one but you do not require much in tooling to rivet but it does require alot of skill

GO vist the shops and ride on some of their hulls and pick out the one YOU like best for where you are going to run most of the time

Happy Hunting

My current DB boat before they rivited the top skins on the welded hull 15 inch sides

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Re: Hulls: welded vs riveted

Post by Cody Alvarez »

Benny web makes a real nice sled.

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Re: Hulls: welded vs riveted

Post by longshot123 »

call bill kline - 561-793-3672 -- he can advise you on welded versus riveted. i have a 14ft kline hull built out or 7075-- .90 thickness.. it is all about weight versus horsepower-- give him a call it will be worth your time.

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Re: Hulls: welded vs riveted

Post by Whitebear »

Just look around and see how many 30+ year old riveted hulls you see and how many welded hulls by comparison.

Both are fine for the short term but it seems to me that riveted hulls have a much longer life span.
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Re: Hulls: welded vs riveted

Post by goldhunter_2 »

The big shops are all about production, the quicker time they can turn a hull out an the lower their cost the more profit and lower the cost to buyer which means higher sales. It doesn't make it wrong or right just simple economics
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Re: Hulls: welded vs riveted

Post by HuntingBigun »

Bet if you went to the doctor with a heart problem and he started telling ya how great a certain procedure works and you asked him if he ever did the procedure and he said no but he heard it from his buddy or read it on the Internet you would head to the door like your a$$ was on fire. :lol: :lol: :lol:
Whitebear wrote:Just look around and see how many 30+ year old riveted hulls you see and how many welded hulls by comparison.

Both are fine for the short term but it seems to me that riveted hulls have a much longer life span.

How long has DB & GTO been around that is like saying SBC is better than LS because they are older than dirt , I forgot that is what everyone told me back in 08 when I built my first LS :toothy7: Lets talk about big 40 foot hyd brakes and mig welders next :salute: Now what happened to all those wood props list goes on

I am sure that the small builders do not care how long it takes or how much it cost they are not doing it for profit but the love of airboating (Grant you are a exception) and work for free.
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Re: Hulls: welded vs riveted

Post by Whitebear »

Folks ask if its still safe to fly on old DC3 and C47s and other war birds.
Of course it is, how do you think they got that old?

For me and my mindset, I have had my head in a lot of airplanes and I haven't seen a welded airplane yet. What aren't all carbon fiber now days are still riveted aluminum. Maybe there really are some welded planes, i actually don't know. Maybe its not fair to compare airplanes to boats, but for me, well I do. Yes I know there are some welded tube with fabric planes out there LOL.

Would I ever buy a new truck and LS engine? Would I order a new LS engine for my old truck? Not a chance. I probably, however, be proud to run one of Mike or Dave's airboat engines on any airboat! I suspect they make better airboat engines than truck engines. LOL

I am one of the slow adapters. I am always leary of new technology. By the time I accept something as the standard its probably been obsolete by at least a decade LOL !

I'm the guy you see driving by all the hair styling shops and poodle parlors looking for the last real barber shop in town. If it don't have a rotating pole it don't cut my hair.

I'm also just rattling on because its late night and I just felt like talking about it ......grinn
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Re: Hulls: welded vs riveted

Post by HuntingBigun »

Whitebear wrote:Folks ask if its still safe to fly on old DC3 and C47s and other war birds.
Of course it is, how do you think they got that old? How many have not had the skins replaced just like all the posts restored another XXXX glades hull showing the only thing left is the data plate

For me and my mindset, I have had my head in a lot of airplanes and I haven't seen a welded airplane yet. What aren't all carbon fiber now days are still riveted aluminum. Maybe there really are some welded planes, i actually don't know. Maybe its not fair to compare airplanes to boats, but for me, well I do. Yes I know there are some welded tube with fabric planes out there LOL. you have hit a good point, ,most jet & small aircraft companies have left the riveted world went to carbon fiber or bonded ie no rivets, I got a Cessna 560XL in the hanger rivets are hard to find, check out the Agusta 139 helo not much aluminum left, go to a airshow most single engines A/C being sold you not going to find riveted fuselage check it out cool stuff, also like circuit boards they glue not solder most of them anymore.


I'm also just rattling on because its late night and I just felt like talking about it ......grinn

Me too :cheers:

I glad not the only one awake and do not look for a barber shop make Julie buzz my hair what is left 8)

The answer from the two that I have asked about why weld not rivet, they said not building a 8 inch side sled boat, their customer's need more displacement on the hulls to carry 5 folks, stainless rigging, 50 gals gas, Bimini tops and couple big bulldogs and if you use a 15 inch straight 7075 rivet it no side strength that is why they bend the angles kind like corrugated sides of the old Cessna tri motor look what they do today bond carbon fiber or high pressure glue the aluminium wings.

Cannot bend 90 degree angle in 7075

Two different boats really, kind like a sweet flats boat compared to a intrepid center console, only they do not try and compare the two because standard facts they both float but have different strengths and weakness

Maybe the O/P wants big boat with lots of displacement or light weight glades style only he knows :D :D :D Better go to bed got gator hunt tonight in a kicker boat hehehe that is another post though NIght :salute:
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Re: Hulls: welded vs riveted

Post by yobee »

I never said a welded hull wasn't good, I think both work great in the airboat world. Some of these builders that don't have the space for 20'+ breaks and shears, even build boats for large manufacturers that don't do the riveted game lol. :angel4:

Both are great in the airboat world, it all depends on what you want to do and what you like, because they will all work, as such has been proven.
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Re: Hulls: welded vs riveted

Post by kenderkng »

I wamt to be able to hunt and fish out of it. Run hard and the hill at times and just have a good time. Kinda scared of open hulls for the fact of how easy they can be to sink. That is why I have asked those with the experience to kinda guide me down the right path

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Re: Hulls: welded vs riveted

Post by todd glover »

Riveted hulls are better lighter but cost more a welded hull is always thicker 190 to 250 th even the lite boats are 125 bottom and 90 sides if you want a boat that lasts forever and you can run dry up north 160th 7075t6 riveted but it will cost alot more than a welded hull but you'll have something nice

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Re: Hulls: welded vs riveted

Post by kenderkng »

How much do they cost on average?

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Re: Hulls: welded vs riveted

Post by todd glover »

If you built it yourself I'd say 2500-3000 in material but there is a ton of labor hence the high price compared to welded I would guess 6000-7500 depending on how thick full deck or open

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Re: Hulls: welded vs riveted

Post by 76 degrees »

Guy's Guy's It's not about Welded or Riveted It's all about HP come on stay on task!!!!!!!
It’s not about how much Horsepower you have it’s about all the places it will take you!

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Re: Hulls: welded vs riveted

Post by kenderkng »

How difficult was it to build ur riggin when everyone first started doing it?

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Re: Hulls: welded vs riveted

Post by HuntingBigun »

kenderkng wrote:How much do they cost on average?

Called Keith at GTO and Bobby at Diamondback they will give you a price for a hull, then call the guru's that are listed above for a price on riveted. You will find that NOT much difference in price for the hull.

Really you need to think do I want a low sled or higher sided deckover? The hull is only one cost factor you start adding all the rest of the goodies and pop goes the price, ps do not buy a deckover full sided open boat that puts the prop way to high (20 inch transom) and will push on the nose most of the time. Lower you can keep the prop the better. Mine is like 9 inches in the middle of the transom.

The deckover is great, can they be sunk yep can they torque roll over yep but I like the clean deck all my batteries and stuff are under the deck. The open guys will say can not carry as much stuff, that's is true that is another reason for the 15-18 inch welded deckover they have more storage under the deck but it must fit thru the doors of the deck. Open boat just throw in the bottom,

all things are a compromise on a airboat just think what you will do MOST of the time with your airboat. Build it for that kind of running you will do, like stainless rigging why pay for the extra cost if you never going to see saltwater, powder coated steel will work just fine. Some things we do are for looks just like a custom jeep

Welcome and have fun, feel free to come ride on my welded Diamondback and my old GTO deckover is also in the family my son in law can take up on that on as well. I am sure any of the Al David, Benny, Scorpion etc guys will take you for a ride. That is the only way to really tell which boat you want heck you may say I can get a lot more boat for the money and pick up a open hull, some killer deals in the classified as we speak, riveted, open etc. there is a 2009 riveted Southern Enterprise deckover you cannot build for 25,000 he asking.
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