Machinest tooling question/help needed

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goldhunter_2
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Machinest tooling question/help needed

Post by goldhunter_2 » Thu Jan 02, 2014 3:44 pm

I know we have several machinist on here and I could use some ideas on a tooling problem. I need to bore a Gpu case and a couple jet ski cylinders and need to swap to my boring head the problem is I have a mt3 drill chuck arbor STUCK in my mill shaft an the dang arbor will not come out!!!!!!!!!!!!! I am way past the point of frustration and could use some ideas


These are things I have tried :
1) filled vertical middle hollow of mill shaft with oil (it is holding about 5" deep oil now)
2) put several rods down the shaft and beat them with a 3lb an 16lb hammer tiring to knock it out (just bent and or mushroomed rods didn't move the arbor)
3) made a thread push out rod thinking a little steady pressure would pop it lose , all this did is pull the mill head top pulley assembly up it did not help the arbor to come out at all
4) I keep think to heat the shaft but my machine is covered in oil both form drips and me keeping it soaked to prevent rust so taking a torch over there to heat it scares me i get images of a nice big house fire :shock:

IF ANYONE HAS A TRICK TO GET THE ARBOR OUT PLEASE SPEAK UP ASAP





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Wacahoota
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Re: Machinest tooling question/help needed

Post by Wacahoota » Thu Jan 02, 2014 3:54 pm

Even if you didn't have it filled with oil, I wouldn't throw flame/heat on a mill or lathe component. I've cracked some components applying torque or tension after the heatup/cool down. Just my opinion. It might work but might not be the best. Expensive tool.

I'm not sure what your setup looks like. I've freed stuck arbors with a gear puller before. Would that work on what you got? You have a picture?

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Re: Machinest tooling question/help needed

Post by Bad Co. » Thu Jan 02, 2014 4:10 pm

When you feed the spindle down, is there a place for a drift punch? A picture would help out. Some of those things are a SOB to get out if they are left in the spindle over a long period of time.

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Re: Machinest tooling question/help needed

Post by goldhunter_2 » Thu Jan 02, 2014 4:12 pm

yes I agree the torch is a bad idea , I am just very frustrated that I can't get that sucker out

I think the gear puller would push the arbor in deeper , The chuck is press fit on the arbor then the arbor is hand pressed into the main vertical mill shaft

sorry the picture is sideways
Image
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Re: Machinest tooling question/help needed

Post by goldhunter_2 » Thu Jan 02, 2014 4:15 pm

Bad co,
ya I guess I will not be leaving stuff in there anymore this is the first time I have ever had this much of a issue , this is a old mill an my spindle is fixed , the top of that arbor is the flat blade style
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Re: Machinest tooling question/help needed

Post by TheElevatorGuy » Thu Jan 02, 2014 4:21 pm

Has the arbor been left in the mill for a long time? This same thing happened to my mill and I let some Kroil soak in the shaft like you did and it freed it up.......I never leave anything in the mill now!!!!

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Re: Machinest tooling question/help needed

Post by bman » Thu Jan 02, 2014 4:26 pm

What type of mill do you have? Do you have a draw bar? The bar should be just lossened and hammer on that.
I would be very careful hammering to hard you will end up destrying the bearings in the spindle.
I suggest freezing the arbor rather than heating.
You could try tightening a rod into the chuck, Tighten the other end into the mills vice and Use that to help pull on the collet chuck while tapping on the loosened drawbar. It might work? I REALLY hope that's not a R-8 taper and the taper spun in the spindle shearing off the internal set screw though. If so, You might never get it apart.

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Re: Machinest tooling question/help needed

Post by John Fenner » Thu Jan 02, 2014 4:30 pm

Get your clamshell and put it on top of the chuck, fixture clamshell to the table beefy as possible, wind table downward to pull on chuck and arbor then use the rods and hammer to shock it.
I never finish anyth,,,.

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Re: Machinest tooling question/help needed

Post by goldhunter_2 » Thu Jan 02, 2014 4:30 pm

TheElevatorGuy wrote:Has the arbor been left in the mill for a long time? This same thing happened to my mill and I let some Kroil soak in the shaft like you did and it freed it up.......I never leave anything in the mill now!!!!

yes been in there quit a awhile now , I have had oil in the shaft well over a week, after this I probably will not leave it in there anymore either
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goldhunter_2
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Re: Machinest tooling question/help needed

Post by goldhunter_2 » Thu Jan 02, 2014 4:32 pm

bman wrote:What type of mill do you have? Do you have a draw bar? The bar should be just lossened and hammer on that.
I would be very careful hammering to hard you will end up destrying the bearings in the spindle.
I suggest freezing the arbor rather than heating.
You could try tightening a rod into the chuck, Tighten the other end into the mills vice and Use that to help pull on the collet chuck while tapping on the loosened drawbar. It might work? I REALLY hope that's not a R-8 taper and the taper spun in the spindle shearing off the internal set screw though. If so, You might never get it apart.

some of my arbor use the draw bar this particular arbor just hand pressed up in there
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Re: Machinest tooling question/help needed

Post by John Fenner » Thu Jan 02, 2014 4:33 pm

Aim a halogen lamp at it for a few hours.
I never finish anyth,,,.

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Re: Machinest tooling question/help needed

Post by TheElevatorGuy » Thu Jan 02, 2014 4:38 pm

Your saying oil.......you got to use a "penetrating oil".......I prefer Kroil.......others like other stuff..........when it happen to mine I want to say I got lucky..........I was going to mention what John said but he beat me to it.........from
what I remember it wasn't easy or fun getting it out.......looks like you were a little shaky from frustration taking that picture!!!!!!! I know I was.............

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Re: Machinest tooling question/help needed

Post by goldhunter_2 » Thu Jan 02, 2014 4:42 pm

ya not my best picture ...lol

I just popped the chuck lose form the arbor but the arbor is still stuck , will try the lamp idea
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Re: Machinest tooling question/help needed

Post by bman » Thu Jan 02, 2014 4:45 pm

Can you get your hands on any liquid nitrogen in your area?

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Re: Machinest tooling question/help needed

Post by Scarecrow » Thu Jan 02, 2014 4:45 pm

Mix up some acetone and tranny fluid 50/50 use for penetrating oil. :thumbleft: :rebel:

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Re: Machinest tooling question/help needed

Post by Wacahoota » Thu Jan 02, 2014 4:46 pm

Gold, I'm using the wrong description I think. The puller I'm talking about has a plate that seperates in two halves and is put together by two captive screws. Kind of like a doughnut cut in half. Maybe it's called a shaft puller. Anyway, if your arbor is like mine, it should have multiple or stepped diameters in the shaft. The tapered edge of the puller fits on that and you use the three or four screws on the outside diameter of the puller to pull the shaft out.

X2 on the Kroil or PB Blaster

John Fenner has a good idea, but just be careful, because if your lateral gears that drive your shaft in and out are acme cut or not locked train, you might jump or crawl them and then you'll be out a few grand. Found that out the hard way. If you bump it a little at a time, it shouldn't hurt nothing.

Try the puller though. If a component I pressed on, the mechanically correct way to remove it is with a puller, an someone makes one for almost every application.

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Re: Machinest tooling question/help needed

Post by goldhunter_2 » Thu Jan 02, 2014 4:52 pm

oh i know what puller your taking about now but can't think of the name I will try in just a bit

oil is half can pb blaster and the rest is regular oil
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Re: Machinest tooling question/help needed

Post by TheElevatorGuy » Thu Jan 02, 2014 5:03 pm

The puller you all are referring to is a kind of bearing puller, I have heard it called a cheese cutter too

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Re: Machinest tooling question/help needed

Post by John Fenner » Thu Jan 02, 2014 5:24 pm

Clamshell. Being you got the chuck separated from the arbor take a rivet gun and a flat set and a piece of aluminum to keep from marring it to the side of the arbor and rap it a couple times, it won't bend it, the impact will loosen it up.
I never finish anyth,,,.

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Re: Machinest tooling question/help needed

Post by John Fenner » Thu Jan 02, 2014 5:26 pm

Heard them be called rooster pinchers before.
I never finish anyth,,,.

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Re: Machinest tooling question/help needed

Post by bman » Thu Jan 02, 2014 5:26 pm

What your talking about is a split bearing puller.
You can try running the machine at a high rpm for a while to get the spindle to heat up and expand but I suggest getting a can of freeze spray or liquid nitrogen to shrink the collet at the same time.
What happens is when you install the collet and run the machine the spindle expands and the collet will get even tighter when the spindle cools down.

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Re: Machinest tooling question/help needed

Post by terrible ted » Thu Jan 02, 2014 5:34 pm

I know heat may damage. Will refrigerant damage anything spray the chuck with 134? then try?



or a 5 lb slap hammer tighten the chuck around.

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Re: Machinest tooling question/help needed

Post by machinestles » Thu Jan 02, 2014 9:35 pm

Everyone has good ideas here. Maybe try this combination. Run the spindle as said before at a relatively high rpm to build some heat in the bearings. Not too much heat, just good and warm to the palm of your hand. Then spray the arbor with liguid nitrogen as previously stated. The liguid nitrogen should be available at the drug store or walmart as wart removal spray. You may also have to hit it from the drawbar hole as well. Hope this works, having spindles reground sucks.
Old school american manufacturer.

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Re: Machinest tooling question/help needed

Post by happy harold » Fri Jan 03, 2014 11:36 am

co/2 is cheap. makes frost.

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Re: Machinest tooling question/help needed

Post by broncobill » Fri Jan 03, 2014 12:12 pm

You can also buy a small can of freon from Radio Shack called component cool.

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