Brake design ideas?

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Canuk
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Brake design ideas?

Postby Canuk » Sat Dec 09, 2017 4:49 am

Finally getting around to finishing up a new to me 13' aluminum hull that will only ever be used on water/ice and snow.
One of the requirements I have is to make up a brake that can be used to reduce fishtailing/spinning out and to hold the boat in a stopped position when parked on glare ice. Currently the boat will creep ahead at just an idle on ice.

Would anyone happen to know of, or could help out with a design for a brake that could be quickly and effectively be used to stop the boat on ice?

Heard of a guy who has one on a real big hull that claims he can bring it to a stop from any speed with a very heavy load in the boat (like 1000lbs). I no longer have his contact info and can't remember if he said it was hand, or foot operated, or how the belcrank was built to operate.

I have a small hydraulic unit that could be used to lower a claw at the transom, but I am concerned it wouldn't deploy quickly enough to keep me out of trouble navigating through twisty and narrow channels.

Any thoughts, or contacts for me to research the design, get some pic's?

Thanks

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bigkavr
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Re: Brake design ideas?

Postby bigkavr » Mon Dec 11, 2017 12:14 pm

Canuk,

Would strongly advise that you don't utilize a "brake" on your airboat for stopping on ice. I can guarantee that if you do utilize said brake on ice, you WILL at some point rip the brake out of the transom or even rip the transom off the hull. Not if, but when.... Think of the forces applied to the mounting points at the transom if you snag a pressure ridge or crack?

Utilizing a brake for PARKING on ice is another thing altogether and can be very safe, but again, you have to deploy it very carefully.

The parking brake looks like a water brake the guys use down south, BUT it has spikes on it and the spikes are angled (pointing) slightly rearwards so they will bounce up and over cracks and pressure ridges. Also, the ice brake should be spring loaded, again so upon contact with a ridge it can bounce up and over and not rip the bolts out of the transom.....

Years ago when I conducted an airboat (ice rescue) training class for the USCG, they had some older airboats (Thousand Island Airboats, fiberglass) that had ice brakes on them. They were so powerful that when they deployed them, it could actually lift the entire rear of the airboat off the ice. needless to say, damage to the transoms was constant and even to the point that the hulls had to be sent back to the factory to be rebuilt (and these airboats were advertised to be ice rescue airboats......) . I've also taught at more than a few government agencies that had ice brakes on aluminum hulls and they also learned the hard and expensive way not to use them because of the damage they caused..

One final note is what happens to the ice brake when you break through the ice... It's possible to break through thick ice if it's candled or old.
When the hull breaks through, for a split second the ice brake could be holding all the weight of the rear of the airboat until it too breaks through the ice (or gets bent up). Also, the ice chunks splash into the air and against the opposite ice face and then bounce back against the transom. I've seen transoms dented pretty severely from this so think what these ice chunks could do to your ice brake..
Just food for thought..
Take care,be safe and have fun!!
Brian

Canuk
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Re: Brake design ideas?

Postby Canuk » Mon Dec 11, 2017 8:35 pm

Thanks for the advise folk's.

I should have probably termed what I am trying build/buy as more like steering brakes than stopping brakes, although hoping to get both from the same device.
Where I have to travel I need to snake through a few narrow channels and without something to keep from sliding sideways I would be banging against the rocky shores. Plus the hull will constantly creep on glare ice when the engine is running and I have to stop it to turn.

My last hull had carbide runners from a snowmobile ski mounted to the outside of the hull directly under the engine. It worked too good sometimes and when on land they would dig in so hard I would get hung up. It wouldn't fish tail on glare ice and on even a light layer of snow you wouldn't know they were there.
If I can't come up with a steering/brake solution I'll have to go back to the carbides.

Appreciate your thought's.

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Bonefish
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Re: Brake design ideas?

Postby Bonefish » Mon Dec 11, 2017 10:53 pm

Hammet, builds and ships several boats a year to the great frozen North :cheers: I love these discussions on SOUTHERN AIRBOAT :salute: I would suggest to contact them, they may have an already developed system that would be a bolt on for you. Stay warm while we try to stay cool :dontknow: :old_glory:

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Re: Brake design ideas?

Postby Alvinlee1915 » Sun Jan 14, 2018 8:16 pm

I've never heard of putting brakes on a airboat. I would strongly advise putting any kind of stopping mechanism on a airboat. If your running an aircraft engine that has a lot of power I'd think it would be extremely dangerous to try and stop it. Or any engine for that matter. It just doesn't sound like a good idea to me. Especially on ice. Just slow down and cut the engine off.

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Re: Brake design ideas?

Postby SWAMPHUNTER45 » Sun Jan 14, 2018 8:18 pm

All the race boats run a brake

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Re: Brake design ideas?

Postby Alvinlee1915 » Sun Jan 14, 2018 8:41 pm

SWAMPHUNTER45 wrote:All the race boats run a brake

Okay. Never heard of running brakes on one till now.

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mojoe
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Re: Brake design ideas?

Postby mojoe » Sun Jan 14, 2018 8:48 pm

SWAMPHUNTER45 wrote:All the race boats run a brake


Every single one of them.
Airboating is like marriage: There are unlimited ways a person can be right, and somehow still be wrong at the same time!!

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Re: Brake design ideas?

Postby SWAMPHUNTER45 » Mon Jan 15, 2018 9:00 am

Alumitec builds a lot of ice boats for a Florida company and as stated give them a call. Steve runs the office operation for Ramon the owner and is very helpful. I'm sure he can give you an idea on what would be a reasonable and affordable solution.

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Rick McC.
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Re: Brake design ideas?

Postby Rick McC. » Mon Jan 15, 2018 11:59 am

I believe that Floral City Airboats also builds boats for use on snow and ice.

Mike would be the person to speak to there.
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Canuk
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Re: Brake design ideas?

Postby Canuk » Mon Jan 15, 2018 1:51 pm

Thanks folk's, I am getting in touch with them.

FYI to those who are not familiar, a ploy covered hull on glare ice slides where ever it wants to. There is no directional control and it is a full time job to just keep the bow out front because the weight in the rear wants to swing the back around. I need something to create drag at the back of the hull to maneuver through 20' wide channels and without it I would just slide sideways into 10' high rock shores.
It is also needed to keep the hull stopped with the engine running, without it the hull will travel 5-10 mph at the lowest idle speed.

Appreciate the advise.

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Re: Brake design ideas?

Postby Lwells » Mon Jan 15, 2018 7:03 pm

Would it be possible to put one or more steel runners under the boat like the blades on ice skates but of course not that tall. It would be just tall enough to cut into the ice and welded to the bottom of the boat and would be cut like the bottom edge of the blade of a skate and would slitely cut into the ice enough to only slide a little in a turn thus giving some control. They would be welded on the bottom more to the front I would guess but maybe all the way front to rear that I wouldn't know for sure. Just a thought

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Re: Brake design ideas?

Postby Lwells » Mon Jan 15, 2018 7:03 pm

Would it be possible to put one or more steel runners under the boat like the blades on ice skates but of course not that tall. It would be just tall enough to cut into the ice and welded to the bottom of the boat and would be cut like the bottom edge of the blade of a skate and would slitely cut into the ice enough to only slide a little in a turn thus giving some control. They would be welded on the bottom more to the front I would guess but maybe all the way front to rear that I wouldn't know for sure. Just a thought

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Re: Brake design ideas?

Postby snow bullet » Tue Jan 16, 2018 8:13 pm

these are what we use on our boats in ontario canada they work great!
they work as a ice break and a trim tab
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Canuk
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Re: Brake design ideas?

Postby Canuk » Wed Jan 17, 2018 7:35 am

Thanks Snow bullet that is similar to the design I have heard about.

PM sent

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Re: Brake design ideas?

Postby snow bullet » Thu Jan 18, 2018 7:23 am

i would stay away from any runners under the boat it would make it hard to handel close to shore.

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Re: Brake design ideas?

Postby Gary S » Thu Jan 18, 2018 7:52 am

snow bullet wrote:i would stay away from any runners under the boat it would make it hard to handel close to shore.

And it would beat the bottom up. You would be putting all the force in a small area.

Canuk
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Re: Brake design ideas?

Postby Canuk » Thu Jan 18, 2018 7:55 am

My last hull had two snowmobile carbide ski runners mounted 1/3 the way forward from the rear. It did a good job of stopping fishtailing on glare ice and you didn't notice them on snow. They were a PIA trying to park on shore if there were any rocks, or park across a wooden dock because the carbides would grab so well you couldn't get moving.

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Re: Brake design ideas?

Postby Canuk » Thu Jan 18, 2018 8:11 am

Hello snow bullet, would I be able to get some pics that show how the brake bellcrank is set up? Is it foot, or hand operated?
I sent you a pm to see if we could take the boring part of this off the forum.

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Re: Brake design ideas?

Postby snow bullet » Tue Jan 23, 2018 1:01 pm

its a foot peddle
it has a long arm that is attached to the dashboard so the brake pedal itself is about 2 feet long which gives you really good lever .Ithe brake works good because you can drag it gently on the ice to keep you from fishtailing but still be able to lift it off the ice so you can control the ball around shore Or push and hold it and use it as a parking brake

Canuk
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Re: Brake design ideas?

Postby Canuk » Tue Jan 23, 2018 1:09 pm

Thanks snow bullet, is it a cable that runs from the foot pedal to the arm out back?

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Re: Brake design ideas?

Postby snow bullet » Tue Jan 23, 2018 2:47 pm

yes its a cable
i will try to get a pic of the peddel later

Canuk
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Re: Brake design ideas?

Postby Canuk » Sat Feb 03, 2018 3:48 am

Hello snow bullet, any chance of getting a pic of your brake pedal and cable set up?

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Re: Brake design ideas?

Postby sanshandaobojue » Mon Feb 12, 2018 3:51 am

snow bullet wrote:these are what we use on our boats in ontario canada they work great!
they work as a ice break and a trim tab

interesting , so could you please show more pic or video about how it works?
thanks.

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Re: Brake design ideas?

Postby swamper2 » Mon Feb 12, 2018 10:23 am

https://photos-4.dropbox.com/t/2/AABUbI ... ize_mode=5

hydraulic activated with a mercruiser outdrive power pack. the cylinders have stainless spuds 2 x 1,25
16ft alumitech/406sbc/2.38w/3-80in.R's


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