I'm Building 2 Stossel Boats with High Torque Motors

A general, non-powerplant specific, discussion on airboat technology, ie., hulls, rigging, polymer, etc..
Gary S
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Re: I'm Building 2 Stossel Boats with High Torque Motors

Post by Gary S » Wed Dec 04, 2019 7:01 am

Not really a true weight if it was hooked to the truck. Turned out nice.

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Re: I'm Building 2 Stossel Boats with High Torque Motors

Post by Slidin Gator » Wed Dec 04, 2019 9:19 am

The trailer was disconnected. Trailer and nose jack sitting on one scale section, the truck on the other.
I grew up thinking I-10 was the Mason Dixon line.
1986 Airboat Engineering Inc., 14' Marsh Master. Refreshed narrow deck, SV O-540, 72” NGQ. A Bob Stossel original.

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Re: I'm Building 2 Stossel Boats with High Torque Motors

Post by Slidin Gator » Thu Dec 05, 2019 12:04 am

So, I'm getting tired of that French Ecotech guy and his fish taco Wednesday crap. But if it's that day, then it's 1984 Orange Grove sinkhole.

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Take a stack of old Vietnam era nicad batteries, plexiglass tube, a sealed high beam halogen headlight, a toilet bowl plunger and a tube of silicone caulk and put it all together. Today we would call it a bomb, back then it was one hell of a dive light, 180 ft tested and proven to jump start the old Buick after 2 hours of burn. Camera's definitely sucked back then.

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I grew up thinking I-10 was the Mason Dixon line.
1986 Airboat Engineering Inc., 14' Marsh Master. Refreshed narrow deck, SV O-540, 72” NGQ. A Bob Stossel original.

Gary S
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Re: I'm Building 2 Stossel Boats with High Torque Motors

Post by Gary S » Thu Dec 05, 2019 6:49 am

So going by the weight slip your boat weighs 11,200 lbs. A 540 is a bad ass motor but I don't think it's that bad.

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Re: I'm Building 2 Stossel Boats with High Torque Motors

Post by Slidin Gator » Thu Dec 05, 2019 11:57 am

Gary,
It’s an 18 wheeler scale. 8,500 lb truck (both axles) sitting on one portion of the scale, hence the 8,500 lb figure. 2,700 boat and trailer (axle and tongue jack) sitting on the other. Previous weight for the same trailer and boat was 2,940 lbs. Hence the estimated 240 lb decrease.

Page 1 of this thread has weight total for the old boat at 1,853 lbs full of fuel. Subtract 240 lbs and the boat, full of fuel and basic equipment is about 1,610 lbs now.
I grew up thinking I-10 was the Mason Dixon line.
1986 Airboat Engineering Inc., 14' Marsh Master. Refreshed narrow deck, SV O-540, 72” NGQ. A Bob Stossel original.

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Slidin Gator
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Re: I'm Building 2 Stossel Boats with High Torque Motors

Post by Slidin Gator » Sun Dec 08, 2019 7:42 pm

Went to scout out the river today, she loosens up real nice in the tall grass. Slides easy in the morning dew, went everywhere. Dry maiden cain and that damn sticky red heather seem a lot less sticky now. Here's the last 1-1/2 mile run back to the truck, all dry and high noon sticky. Turn up the Bose.


I grew up thinking I-10 was the Mason Dixon line.
1986 Airboat Engineering Inc., 14' Marsh Master. Refreshed narrow deck, SV O-540, 72” NGQ. A Bob Stossel original.

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Re: I'm Building 2 Stossel Boats with High Torque Motors

Post by lariat » Sun Dec 08, 2019 8:06 pm

While you had her apart, you should have put some air ride on that thing! I'm running a similar boat, and put air ride on a couple years ago. I didn't go full on like Dave Simpsons boats, but replaced the front hard connection points with adjustable air shocks and it takes that sharp jarring out of the bumps I saw you hitting. Looks like you've got her loosened up and running good though. How are the temps now?

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Re: I'm Building 2 Stossel Boats with High Torque Motors

Post by Slidin Gator » Sun Dec 08, 2019 8:54 pm

This was intended to be a quick turn around, old school Stossel build, but those old school seats are pretty damn comfortable. I felt very comfortable in the seat and those bumbs were not jarring my bad back. My back actually feels better tonight than the last few weeks. :thumbleft:

That said, I have several tweaks in mind for the next build and air ride could be one of them, but first I'm gonna give these seats a good run. Temps are well in check now. On the video run I started at 400 on the CHT and oil at 180. CHT was 450 and oil was 190 at the end approaching the trailer. I have been running the Autolite 373 plug with the Pacemaker ignition. The cooler plugs are just the ticket on temps and even though they are not resistor plugs, I have not seen any interference with my Garmin dog tracking gear. Also, I switched back from my 6AA to my MA4-5 carb and found another 150 RPM, so we will be adding some pitch.

The old boat squatted in the maidencain, this one slides on top. We were all grins back at the landing, :P mission accomplished for this build.
I grew up thinking I-10 was the Mason Dixon line.
1986 Airboat Engineering Inc., 14' Marsh Master. Refreshed narrow deck, SV O-540, 72” NGQ. A Bob Stossel original.

Gary S
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Re: I'm Building 2 Stossel Boats with High Torque Motors

Post by Gary S » Mon Dec 09, 2019 6:56 am

Love it when a plan comes together. You do nice work.

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Re: I'm Building 2 Stossel Boats with High Torque Motors

Post by Slidin Gator » Tue Dec 10, 2019 2:15 pm

Gary S wrote:
Mon Dec 09, 2019 6:56 am
Love it when a plan comes together. You do nice work.
Thanks Gary, I paid several people that do nice work along the way, so team effort.
I grew up thinking I-10 was the Mason Dixon line.
1986 Airboat Engineering Inc., 14' Marsh Master. Refreshed narrow deck, SV O-540, 72” NGQ. A Bob Stossel original.

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Re: I'm Building 2 Stossel Boats with High Torque Motors

Post by Seven3 » Tue Dec 10, 2019 3:19 pm

I’ve always wondered do you need to strengthen the bulkhead on a boat when you switch to air ride? Seems like that would create an awful lot of leverage pulling up on that section of a hull.

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Re: I'm Building 2 Stossel Boats with High Torque Motors

Post by Hardtail » Wed Dec 11, 2019 8:41 pm

I'm thinking about trying a tractor seat with 5.5 inches of travel, and can be adjusted from 130 lbs to 300 lbs, so you can set it so you don't bottom out even on large bumps,

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Re: I'm Building 2 Stossel Boats with High Torque Motors

Post by Slidin Gator » Wed Dec 11, 2019 11:16 pm

Skinnypockets talked about air ride seats on his latest rig, but no details. From my view, the shock loads are the biggest load that the hull see’s. Cantilevering the seating does add some stress at the attachment, but the air ride limits shock loading in a major way. I would expect that an air ride could decrease max stress on the runners.

A good example is my buggy. I have spent years dialing in a soft ride. My entire engine, tranny and 3x transfer cases are all mounted together on polyurethane mounts to absorb drive train shock loads. The whole package twists with drive train torque. The result is a much softer ride and no more failed U Joints and longer drive train life.

The point is that shock loads are the major loads, if you don’t feel it in the back, the boat doesn’t feel your ass beating it up either.

That said, 4” of foam on the new seats is light years better than the old fiberglass shell seats.

I know OneBFC did an air ride on his sled, maybe he will comment on associated mods.
I grew up thinking I-10 was the Mason Dixon line.
1986 Airboat Engineering Inc., 14' Marsh Master. Refreshed narrow deck, SV O-540, 72” NGQ. A Bob Stossel original.

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Re: I'm Building 2 Stossel Boats with High Torque Motors

Post by FISHSTICKER » Sun Dec 15, 2019 6:53 pm

Good job Gator. Are you going to run plastic on the second boat? Are you going to try to build it any lighter?

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Re: I'm Building 2 Stossel Boats with High Torque Motors

Post by Snapper man » Mon Dec 16, 2019 9:18 pm

Beautiful boat chuck, enjoyed having y’all up a couple weeks ago. We all had a good time hope to get to ride some more swamp soon. Come again anytime.

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Re: I'm Building 2 Stossel Boats with High Torque Motors

Post by Slidin Gator » Tue Dec 17, 2019 8:50 am

Snapper man wrote:
Mon Dec 16, 2019 9:18 pm
Beautiful boat chuck, enjoyed having y’all up a couple weeks ago. We all had a good time hope to get to ride some more swamp soon. Come again anytime.
We had a great time too! Thanks for the invite.
FISHSTICKER wrote:
Sun Dec 15, 2019 6:53 pm
Good job Gator. Are you going to run plastic on the second boat? Are you going to try to build it any lighter?
The next boat will have 3/8” poly, the holes are already there. Steelflex2000 is definitely more slippery, but it is going to be a high maintenance item on this boat. I do not see getting lighter, 250 lbs is my weight budget for poly and more motor. I will be going single rear rider on the next one plus a front jump seat. I also want to deck that hull over. Hopefully aluminum rigging helps keep weight down. We have a lot of work to do to make boat 2 a reality. Right now we have some ridding and hunting to do.
I grew up thinking I-10 was the Mason Dixon line.
1986 Airboat Engineering Inc., 14' Marsh Master. Refreshed narrow deck, SV O-540, 72” NGQ. A Bob Stossel original.

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Re: I'm Building 2 Stossel Boats with High Torque Motors

Post by Seven3 » Tue Dec 17, 2019 12:28 pm

I’m not a fabricator, but I have owned boats with aluminum and EMT riggings. I did not feel the aluminum rigging was any lighter. In fact, several areas of the aluminum had to be strengthened over the years with additional support as they fatigued and bent. And I’m talking about standard round aluminum tubing, not that heavy oval stock the manufacturers use. I really don’t think EMT can be beat as far as weight, especially if you use the smaller 1/2” where you can. Unless you go chromoly, but that presents it’s own set of challenges.

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Re: I'm Building 2 Stossel Boats with High Torque Motors

Post by Slidin Gator » Tue Dec 17, 2019 8:14 pm

Seven,
No doubt you are making valid points, I used to spend a lot of time patching the aluminum tower on my old offshore boat. As the saying goes, one of the best days of my life was seeing that beast leave the driveway hooked to someone else’s truck. :cheers:

The original estimate from Trevor was 140 lbs for emt and 120 lbs for aluminum, so not a lot of difference. Go back in the thread and I opted for emt on the first build because of flex induced fatigue on the open hull. Basically, open hulls flex and that fatigues the aluminum. By decking the next hull over, it will be a lot stiffer and I have seen aluminum rigging hold up well on similar builds.

Ultimately, aluminum will be for minimum maintenance more than anything, but a bit of weight savings vs. the deck over additions doesn’t hurt.

At least that’s where my thinking lies at the moment.
I grew up thinking I-10 was the Mason Dixon line.
1986 Airboat Engineering Inc., 14' Marsh Master. Refreshed narrow deck, SV O-540, 72” NGQ. A Bob Stossel original.

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Re: I'm Building 2 Stossel Boats with High Torque Motors

Post by Rich Andrews » Wed Dec 18, 2019 9:16 am

Once you have owned light rigging light hull you will always want to go back to it.... like I just did
Big Ole Deckover in the making...

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Re: I'm Building 2 Stossel Boats with High Torque Motors

Post by Slidin Gator » Fri Dec 20, 2019 12:50 am

Rich Andrews wrote:
Wed Dec 18, 2019 9:16 am
Once you have owned light rigging light hull you will always want to go back to it.... like I just did
Rich,
You hit the nail on the head here. :violent1:

Ghost feels lighter and slicker as planned. Any upgrade needs to improve on at least one. I do not see lighter, so it's another of the same or maximizing power to weight. Based on the old boat, I want to stay below adding 300 lbs with 3/8"polymer. Polymer is 150 lbs that does not impact my water line, but it is weight on ground. The other 150 lbs is my weight budget for deck over and engine/gear. If I can knock 20 lbs out of the rigging with Aluminum, that's another 20 lbs of deck. :cheers:

My engine all in is 408 lbs, but the +90 lb stand is over done and is another source of weight reduction on build #2.

Cut to the chase, I am mulling engine/gear options around 500 lbs max all in. I am looking to make 400-450 Hp max with a fat torque curve. 400-450 Hp, 800-1000 ft-lbs is getting into stupid range on these hulls, they don't need it, they need to stay light.

I think I can come up with something without throwing rods and bending push rods, stay tuned. :bigsmurf:
I grew up thinking I-10 was the Mason Dixon line.
1986 Airboat Engineering Inc., 14' Marsh Master. Refreshed narrow deck, SV O-540, 72” NGQ. A Bob Stossel original.

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Re: I'm Building 2 Stossel Boats with High Torque Motors

Post by hogdoggin » Fri Dec 20, 2019 1:42 pm

You should consider the ecotec. My 12 foot Palm Beach boat makes the power you just mentioned above. Stander 5 foot bottom I had a 540 on the same Hull. I burn half the fuel I used to and plenty of power. I've had very little issue out of the 2.0 lhu. Ecotec has been on the boat two years now. Since you got the boat done if you want to hook up and ride together some time on the St John's I'd be happy to run some woods.

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Re: I'm Building 2 Stossel Boats with High Torque Motors

Post by Slidin Gator » Fri Dec 20, 2019 11:35 pm

hogdoggin wrote:
Fri Dec 20, 2019 1:42 pm
You should consider the ecotec. My 12 foot Palm Beach boat makes the power you just mentioned above. Stander 5 foot bottom I had a 540 on the same Hull. I burn half the fuel I used to and plenty of power. I've had very little issue out of the 2.0 lhu. Ecotec has been on the boat two years now. Since you got the boat done if you want to hook up and ride together some time on the St John's I'd be happy to run some woods.
I have considered the Eco, but have ruled it out. The Eco specs are very appealing, I also know it's not for me. To be honest, Fishsticker's Eco build thread has sold me away from it. It's a great thread, I just don't want to F with that stuff. From my experience, the new stuff is very reliable once tuned in and kept within boundaries. But I spend enough of my life building, operating and troubleshooting complex equipment. I like my toys simple if possible, particularly as I age. I get so little time to use them.

My specification is normally asperated, probably carbureted, stroked to the max and I'm not scared of TBI/EFI. Aircraft is not ruled out, but fuel range is a goal. Too bad Hemi's are so damn heavy.

I will drop you a line, we will go hoggin in the spring.
I grew up thinking I-10 was the Mason Dixon line.
1986 Airboat Engineering Inc., 14' Marsh Master. Refreshed narrow deck, SV O-540, 72” NGQ. A Bob Stossel original.

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Re: I'm Building 2 Stossel Boats with High Torque Motors

Post by Slidin Gator » Mon Dec 30, 2019 7:43 pm

So time for an initial run in report. I've put 13.5 hours on Ghost since rebuild and burned 124 gallons of AVgas. So that's 9.17 gallons per hour of run time.

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It's been mostly hard run time hauling a 80 lb catch dog and/or a rider, most of it running ground. Initially we missed the pitch mark (#2, too low) and the engine was wrapping the new 3,000 tach (probably 3,100 to 3,200) when matted. Prop was pushing for sure at that setting, but loud. Previously I was running around 2800-2900 on the old boat on #2, so this was un-expected. Plugged in the old mechanical tach and confirmed that if anything the new tach reads a hair lower. We pitched to #3 and I took it out on a long day, just my self and the big dog on the nose. This was a way overshoot, RPM's limited out at 2,600, which is exactly what I got before on the old boat at #3. Boat ran ground at that setting and was really quiet, only turning 1,900-2,000 running steady on ground, but it didn't have the balls when needed and stuck me good in a big hog waller that appeared out of the grass.

Cylinder temps seem to be in order. #4 cylinder is my hottest (#3 is close and the rest are at least 50 degrees cooler). #4 runs 300-350 when running free on skinny water, 400 minimum on ground and will climb to 500 over 15 -20 minutes of hard running. Stopping to idle for 2-3 minutes will cool things back to 400, rinse and repeat. Oil temp is hard pressed to get to 180, I have seen 190 once after 3 heat cycles to 500 on #4 CHT.

Have returned the prop to #2 plus a couple smidgens, trying to hit 2,800-2,900. I also went out and refueled, another 130 gallons of that sweet smelling AVgas.

Finally, a report on how the Steelflex 2000 is holding up. Steelflex 2000 is the new version with Teflon. Comparing against Wetlander on another boat and Gatorglide on my grass rake, the Steelflex comes in as the slicker coating. Plus Steelflex can go on heavier. In order for this boat (14 x 7) to run like I want/need with a 250 Hp straight valve engine, a slick bottom was a requirement vs poly. There is no question that the steelflex 2000 is slicker than the old poly. Also, it does not get sticky after some run time like poly or the older steelflex coating. Slick bottom definitely helps this boat slide and she sure unloads easy.

That said, it is a wear item and will require ongoing maintenance. Here are some pictures of the bottom after 13.5 hours of run time over a lot of hard ground. The coating has worn off of the caps and has cracked along the sheet seam on bottom with two spots where it appears to have de-laminated (probably due to flex) and broken off. Otherwise it seems to be holding up well. Time to order some more paint, probably need to paint the caps after every run.

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I grew up thinking I-10 was the Mason Dixon line.
1986 Airboat Engineering Inc., 14' Marsh Master. Refreshed narrow deck, SV O-540, 72” NGQ. A Bob Stossel original.

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Re: I'm Building 2 Stossel Boats with High Torque Motors

Post by SWAMPHUNTER45 » Tue Dec 31, 2019 7:10 am

Sounds like everything is as expected. The wear on the Steel Flex seems extreme but you do burn the hill up. Glad to hear all is well with her.

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Re: I'm Building 2 Stossel Boats with High Torque Motors

Post by Rich Andrews » Tue Dec 31, 2019 12:35 pm

Did you etch the metal w a primer before steel flex?
Big Ole Deckover in the making...

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