Engine oil additive

Automotive powered airboat discussion.
Basin_Runner355
Southern Airboat Member
Posts: 183
Joined: Sun Nov 13, 2016 7:16 am
Location: St.martinville , Louisiana

Engine oil additive

Postby Basin_Runner355 » Fri Oct 06, 2017 5:50 am

Hey guys I'm running rotella T4 SAE 15-40 changed my oil yesterday I check my oil before evey run and it looks a lot cleaner on the dipstick than when you drain it. Well I had bout 25-30 hours on that oil I know that's a lot but wound it hurt to run some of that Lucas oil stabilizer in it it's already about $60 for a oil change right now i was told to run. That rotella cause for the price it can't be beat and it has high zinc content
14ft diamond back mild zz4 355sbc pushin 410 hp 430 TQ 2:1 belt drive reduction with a 3 blade sensenich 78Jw series

SWAMPHUNTER45
Site Supporter - III
Site Supporter - III
Posts: 2787
Joined: Thu Nov 21, 2013 11:38 am
Location: Naturecoast, Florida

Re: Engine oil additive

Postby SWAMPHUNTER45 » Fri Oct 06, 2017 7:26 am

Lucas is good just don't overfill

The Rotella formula that we had great success with was the T3 blend. Shell has reformulated the oil to a "new and improved" more environmentally friendly product. This typically spells out to them removing more of the zinc and phosphorus from the oil as such it's ability to protect and cushion are decreased. That said adding the conventional (white bottle) Lucas is a good thing as it helps to cushion. Thru my observations a 20% blend works very well in a healthy engine. If your not running catalytic converters the addition of zinc & phosphorous back into the oil is beneficial and we do this with a product made by CompCams part#159 and sold as a breakin additive. If your engine is flat tappet or direct drive 6 to 8 ounces would be a good dose, if full roller then 3 to 4 ounces is plenty. If your still running the ZZ4 / belt platform it would be roller so 4 ounces in 5-6 quarts would be good.

How the engine is run would also be a consideration in the maintenance schedule as much as hours on the clock. I would be planning a change with new high quality oil filter like a KN soon if it were me. Changing the oil removes acid, unburnt fuel, debris and metal particles so it is insurance that your engine will last longer than one allowing those contaminates to remain.

If a straight 30wt would work for you Rotella offers T1 and I have used it from time to time as well with Lucas and Comp159 blended.

Basin_Runner355
Southern Airboat Member
Posts: 183
Joined: Sun Nov 13, 2016 7:16 am
Location: St.martinville , Louisiana

Re: Engine oil additive

Postby Basin_Runner355 » Fri Oct 06, 2017 7:50 am

I'm running a napa gold 2 quart oil filter part # 1794 thing better be good just the filter is $20
14ft diamond back mild zz4 355sbc pushin 410 hp 430 TQ 2:1 belt drive reduction with a 3 blade sensenich 78Jw series

Basin_Runner355
Southern Airboat Member
Posts: 183
Joined: Sun Nov 13, 2016 7:16 am
Location: St.martinville , Louisiana

Re: Engine oil additive

Postby Basin_Runner355 » Fri Oct 06, 2017 7:50 am

Yea it's a stock motor I think it's a roller motor
14ft diamond back mild zz4 355sbc pushin 410 hp 430 TQ 2:1 belt drive reduction with a 3 blade sensenich 78Jw series

Basin_Runner355
Southern Airboat Member
Posts: 183
Joined: Sun Nov 13, 2016 7:16 am
Location: St.martinville , Louisiana

Re: Engine oil additive

Postby Basin_Runner355 » Fri Oct 06, 2017 7:51 am

I was told napa and wix filters are the same exact thing when it comes to filters it takes a gallon and 2 quarts on the money
14ft diamond back mild zz4 355sbc pushin 410 hp 430 TQ 2:1 belt drive reduction with a 3 blade sensenich 78Jw series

Basin_Runner355
Southern Airboat Member
Posts: 183
Joined: Sun Nov 13, 2016 7:16 am
Location: St.martinville , Louisiana

Re: Engine oil additive

Postby Basin_Runner355 » Fri Oct 06, 2017 7:55 am

So should I switch oil or the t4 is good oil
14ft diamond back mild zz4 355sbc pushin 410 hp 430 TQ 2:1 belt drive reduction with a 3 blade sensenich 78Jw series

SWAMPHUNTER45
Site Supporter - III
Site Supporter - III
Posts: 2787
Joined: Thu Nov 21, 2013 11:38 am
Location: Naturecoast, Florida

Re: Engine oil additive

Postby SWAMPHUNTER45 » Sat Oct 07, 2017 5:24 pm

The T4 will work fine but as stated we use 20% Lucas and a few ounces of CompCam #159 to boost it.

K&N is one of the better filters on the market but there are other good ones. If your wondering what could be different among all the filters on the market look at some of the YouTube oil filter comparisons where they cut them open.

Some big name filters are plain crap with cardboard glued in the bottom rather than having a metal base. Some companies just use Chinese crap and brand it as their own. Unless you cut one open you never would know really what your getting. That said every K&N we have opened up was high quality and built to last in a severe environment.

User avatar
Deano
Site Supporter - V
Site Supporter - V
Posts: 4548
Joined: Thu Jan 06, 2005 11:16 am
Location: Inverness, FL

Re: Engine oil additive

Postby Deano » Sun Oct 08, 2017 11:11 am

Basin_Runner355 wrote:I was told napa and wix filters are the same exact thing when it comes to filters . . .

This is in fact true, to the extent that NAPA private labels the filters that WIX manufactures. This has been the case for at least the last forty plus years that I am aware. I've been around multiple fleet settings over the years, and WIX filters have generally been the undisputed go to standard in those instances. I've used them in or on nearly everything and had no issues.

I have no opinion or insight to share about what oil is best; use whatever let's you sleep the best. I would say that it is worth considering the age and type of technology you are dealing with as this effects the oil system's design, bearing clearances, etc. which can be more than passively relevant to selecting the best oil for a given application, IMO.

On a different but related note, my step-father bought a new '64 Thunderbird and proceeded to ask a patient of his, who was a chemist at an oil company in/near Port Tampa what would be the best oil to run in it. This man told him that viscosity breakdown and all the other evils that come with not replacing your oil, were for the most part, a marketing ploy used to ultimately sell more oil. He further stated that the far bigger consideration was to keep it clean, and that if a man perpetually changed the filter on a regular basis and replaced that quart that he would never have an oil related problem.

In retrospect, I'm not sure because I never asked, if he did that because he was calling his bluff or because he had that much respect for this man's word (I suspect the later), but he proceeded to do just that and change the filter, but never did 'change the oil'. I can't remember now, if the interval was two or if it was three thousand miles, but the point being when he sold it, it had 286,000 miles and had never had the heads off. It sure seems like it must have had a timing chain along the way, but the only thing I ever knew it to have had was a water pump and an alternator.

Mind you, that was with oil technology from half a century ago. Certainly gives one food for thought . . .
"The suppression of uncomfortable ideas may be common in religion and politics,
but it is not the path to knowledge; it has no place in the endeavor of science."
- Carl Sagan

SWAMPHUNTER45
Site Supporter - III
Site Supporter - III
Posts: 2787
Joined: Thu Nov 21, 2013 11:38 am
Location: Naturecoast, Florida

Re: Engine oil additive

Postby SWAMPHUNTER45 » Sun Oct 08, 2017 9:57 pm

When your dealing with a label that outsources it's manufacturing you never know batch to batch about the quality. I can tell you first hand based on multiple filter autopsy's that quality can be compromised while the filter looks and appears the same from the outside. K&N has never been altered or substandard in any of the many exams we did. That means something to me as I need a high quality filter that will flow volume and clean without failure inside the filters case. Check out those YouTube filter comparisons a few of those guys do a good job showing the difference in the internal design, filter pleating, drain backs and quality.

(If you have a vehicle that mounts its filter at a inverted or angled position such as a Toyota 3.4 V6 in the Tacoma that high quality (red) silicone anti-drain back valve will prevent your engine from suffering dry start up and fluctuation of pressure)

On another note STP back a few years ago were awesome and since we cut the filter at every change to inspect for debris we get to see a lot of filter insides. Then one day we pop one open and it was totally different inside and total junk. Last year we picked up some cheap filters at Advance Auto to use on the stand for the 1 hour and 3 hour break in interval. We decided to peek inside the $3 cheapie DriveWorks filter and found it to be a fairly high quality filter with a dang near bullet proof case. After about two months that batch of filters was gone and replaced by a new batch of filters that are junk. Advance rebranded and changed the manufacturer and the new ones are no where near the quality of the old DriveWorks.

I have no doubt WIX builds a very good product and in discussions with Mr B. he had cut a few NAPA Gold NASCAR series(black) filters a few years back and said they were a real good filter. He also has said Bosch and Mobil1 have looked good upon cutting them open but they are outsourced and should the company change the filter manufacturer the quality could suffer. I avoid the Mobil1 and Bosch personally as they are a much smaller (mini) filter holding less oil and filter media than my good old K&N HP2003.

With the loss of zinc and phosphorous (ZZPD) anyone running a vintage car motor, DD or any flat tappet application MUST dope their oil to get a high level of wear protection unless using a specialty brand formulation like Amsoil ZRod or BradPenn for example. Any time you see a new formula in a classic petroleum (dinosaur) oil it's not a good thing because it usually means they are taking out more of what an old engine needs to protect the emissions systems of the new cars !

CarMotorBarge
Site Supporter - I
Site Supporter - I
Posts: 940
Joined: Thu Jul 14, 2011 8:32 pm
Location: Lake Harney Woods

Re: Engine oil additive

Postby CarMotorBarge » Mon Oct 09, 2017 10:32 am

You can get Royal Purple HPS oil from Summit for $8.30 a quart. You don't have to pay tax and if you buy over $100, the shipping is free. Usually get it in about 2 days. The HPS oil is ZDDP enhanced. So you don't have to add anything like the Lucas additive.
14x7.5 Al David hull with 14 inch transom
419 CI Horsepower Barn LS3 with 2.88 Ox Box swinging 4 blade 83.5" R
GTO Rigging and B&S Tilt Trailer

Billykid
Southern Airboat Member
Posts: 46
Joined: Mon Mar 24, 2014 11:38 am

Re: Engine oil additive

Postby Billykid » Sun Dec 03, 2017 7:00 am

On the oil filter Wix is much better than the K&N if you have ever seen them cut apart you would see the difference, NAPA filters are made by WIX, few dollars now or lots of bucks later????? 8)

User avatar
Deano
Site Supporter - V
Site Supporter - V
Posts: 4548
Joined: Thu Jan 06, 2005 11:16 am
Location: Inverness, FL

Re: Engine oil additive

Postby Deano » Sun Dec 03, 2017 10:56 am

Whoever would dispute WIX filters for the price (or otherwise) simply has not done the research.
They've been setting 'the standard' since before the radical bulk of those here were ever concerned with buying oil.
"The suppression of uncomfortable ideas may be common in religion and politics,
but it is not the path to knowledge; it has no place in the endeavor of science."
- Carl Sagan

Basin_Runner355
Southern Airboat Member
Posts: 183
Joined: Sun Nov 13, 2016 7:16 am
Location: St.martinville , Louisiana

Re: Engine oil additive

Postby Basin_Runner355 » Mon Dec 04, 2017 8:51 am

ladyblackwater wrote:What motor are you running is my first question? When it comes to oil filters I only use Wix or Napa Gold. I've used the K&N many times before with only 1 filter giving me a problem 1 time but for me that's 1 time to many. MAS (Mike) tells you to never run anything but WIX or Napa Gold. When it comes to oil I use nothing but Brad Penn. The oil is very high in zinc and is a great oil. If you want an oil that you can buy off most auto parts shelfs is Valvoline VR1 racing oil. FYI the Rotella oil that you're running now has an extremely low amount of zinc. It's not the same Rotella T oil we use to buy 7 years ago. You could just buy the zinc additive if you want to but the cost is about equal to buying a good quality oil with it already. If your engine is a small or big block chevy and isn't an LS the the filter numbers are....WIX 51060 or Napa Gold 1060.

I personally use the WIX 51060R but that's because of my application.



What zinc additive are you talking about and if I would switch my oil would I have to flush it out or no I was told not to run a synthetic oil in my motor
14ft diamond back mild zz4 355sbc pushin 410 hp 430 TQ 2:1 belt drive reduction with a 3 blade sensenich 78Jw series

SWAMPHUNTER45
Site Supporter - III
Site Supporter - III
Posts: 2787
Joined: Thu Nov 21, 2013 11:38 am
Location: Naturecoast, Florida

Re: Engine oil additive

Postby SWAMPHUNTER45 » Mon Dec 04, 2017 7:14 pm

CompCams Break in additive part #159

If you have a roller cam add 3-4 ounces to your oil with a flat tappet cam add 6 ounces and your good.

Any doubt about the quality of Rotella and the Lucas, CompCam blend can be dismissed if you heard the story about my broken oil pump pickup.

You can order the 159 from Summit or buy off of Amazon

https://www.summitracing.com/parts/cca-159

barhopper
Site Supporter - II
Site Supporter - II
Posts: 703
Joined: Sat May 14, 2005 12:23 pm
Location: ocala

Re: Engine oil additive

Postby barhopper » Mon Dec 04, 2017 8:33 pm

Agree on the Brad Penn. The only oil I use. Why buy an additive if you can get it in the oil.

Basin_Runner355
Southern Airboat Member
Posts: 183
Joined: Sun Nov 13, 2016 7:16 am
Location: St.martinville , Louisiana

Re: Engine oil additive

Postby Basin_Runner355 » Mon Dec 04, 2017 9:07 pm

I’m leaning toward the vr1 I asked my mechanic about brad penn and all he responded back with was vr1 he dint say anything good or bad. But I’ve been running 15-40 all they have in vr1 is 10-30 and 20-50 and some straight 30 40 and 50 and they got a black bottle and a silver one
14ft diamond back mild zz4 355sbc pushin 410 hp 430 TQ 2:1 belt drive reduction with a 3 blade sensenich 78Jw series

Basin_Runner355
Southern Airboat Member
Posts: 183
Joined: Sun Nov 13, 2016 7:16 am
Location: St.martinville , Louisiana

Re: Engine oil additive

Postby Basin_Runner355 » Mon Dec 04, 2017 9:09 pm

I’m just worried cause the rotella is such a cheap oil a gallon is $19
14ft diamond back mild zz4 355sbc pushin 410 hp 430 TQ 2:1 belt drive reduction with a 3 blade sensenich 78Jw series

SWAMPHUNTER45
Site Supporter - III
Site Supporter - III
Posts: 2787
Joined: Thu Nov 21, 2013 11:38 am
Location: Naturecoast, Florida

Re: Engine oil additive

Postby SWAMPHUNTER45 » Mon Dec 04, 2017 10:50 pm

:violent1:

I change oil every 30 hours and this blend works in vintage big inch airboats! Mr Branch has recommended this and I have put it to extreme tests in the field with near miraculous results. It isn't even about the 30% cost savings for me, it is that the blend works.

Gallon of Rotella T3 at Walmart $14, quart Lucas oil stabilizer $5.50 and 4 ounces CompCam159 $4 total cost fluids $23.50

Cost of 5 quarts VR1 at Advance Auto $35

Cost of 5 quarts30wt Brad Penn at Summit $45

The Lucas Oil Stabilizer is purchased in a gallon bottle for $22 from Rural King

SWAMPHUNTER45
Site Supporter - III
Site Supporter - III
Posts: 2787
Joined: Thu Nov 21, 2013 11:38 am
Location: Naturecoast, Florida

Re: Engine oil additive

Postby SWAMPHUNTER45 » Tue Dec 05, 2017 7:13 am

Your definitely getting a deep discount Jason. I have a 8qt pan and don't use it because I enjoy that 5qt change. I get the T3 in gallon jugs and bought several cases from NAPA prior to the T4 revision, it was $12 a gallon. My engine is modified to express oil return so the standard Fleetwood pan works well. You heard the story of the broken oil pick up tube? A 360' break at the mounting point to the block and when Mr. Branch pulled the main caps the bearings were perfect and reused. That's a good oil blend to carry me through that experience. Kwan put pics up on here somewhere for me.

User avatar
kwanjangnihm
Site Supporter - IV
Site Supporter - IV
Posts: 1917
Joined: Sat Mar 30, 2013 8:23 pm
Location: Bartow FL

Re: Engine oil additive

Postby kwanjangnihm » Tue Dec 05, 2017 7:20 am

SWAMPHUNTER45 wrote:Your definitely getting a deep discount Jason. I have a 8qt pan and don't use it because I enjoy that 5qt change. I get the T3 in gallon jugs and bought several cases from NAPA prior to the T4 revision, it was $12 a gallon. My engine is modified to express oil return so the standard Fleetwood pan works well. You heard the story of the broken oil pick up tube? A 360' break at the mounting point to the block and when Mr. Branch pulled the main caps the bearings were perfect and reused. That's a good oil blend to carry me through that experience. Kwan put pics up on here somewhere for me.


here you go swamp!! :thumbleft:

Image
Image
" I don't care who you are back in the world, you give away our position one more time, I'll bleed ya, real quiet. Leave ya here. Got that? "

SWAMPHUNTER45
Site Supporter - III
Site Supporter - III
Posts: 2787
Joined: Thu Nov 21, 2013 11:38 am
Location: Naturecoast, Florida

Re: Engine oil additive

Postby SWAMPHUNTER45 » Tue Dec 05, 2017 5:23 pm

What do you run in your drive or are you a belt ?

At Deano and others suggestion I am using the Red Line Heavy Shock Proof that I have been doping with Lucas and 159.

For a Rotator with 4 big blades mated to it she is fairly quiet. Interestingly enough the Lucas is actually a lighter fluid that the Red Line when first introduced the Lucas will come to the top.

SWAMPHUNTER45
Site Supporter - III
Site Supporter - III
Posts: 2787
Joined: Thu Nov 21, 2013 11:38 am
Location: Naturecoast, Florida

Re: Engine oil additive

Postby SWAMPHUNTER45 » Wed Dec 06, 2017 7:16 am

That is crazy! How two users can have opposite experiences, in the Rotator I drain it around that 30 hour interval when doing the oil change and it looks like new. The service interval is 30 to 50 hours for a Rotator. I have noticed when mixing up my blend that the Lucas is actually lighter in weight than the RedLine and even if put into the container first will find it's way to the top until blended. I find that interesting!

Panther had turned the drives out running a straight 250wt up until about 18 months ago. My old 1.53 ran it but the 2.37 is a RedLine baby and so far I'm satisfied. That said I would have zero problem going to the Amsoil product your using. I'm sure it would work well they make superior products.

Capt steve
Southern Airboat Member
Posts: 98
Joined: Mon Oct 23, 2017 10:36 pm
Location: Central Florida

Re: Engine oil additive

Postby Capt steve » Thu Dec 07, 2017 8:56 am

Anyone know the easiest way to drain the panther counter rotating gear box without making a mess?
100 ton master captain
Professional airboat operator
I made enough money to buy Miami,
But I pi$$ed it away so fast

SWAMPHUNTER45
Site Supporter - III
Site Supporter - III
Posts: 2787
Joined: Thu Nov 21, 2013 11:38 am
Location: Naturecoast, Florida

Re: Engine oil additive

Postby SWAMPHUNTER45 » Thu Dec 07, 2017 2:15 pm

Not familiar with the counter rotator on my single shaft I use a cut down milk jug. The plastic is soft enough to bend and shape yet very capable of holding the waste oil.

User avatar
digginfool
Site Supporter - III
Site Supporter - III
Posts: 2716
Joined: Wed Jun 05, 2013 3:00 pm
Location: South Florida

Re: Engine oil additive

Postby digginfool » Tue Dec 26, 2017 4:47 pm

ladyblackwater wrote:Basin_Runner no you do not need to flush your motor. People use to say you can't mix conventional and synthetic oil and you could never switch back once you went to synthetic, well that's not true at all. I'm not a fan of full synthetic any way. The Brad Penn is a blend and you can get the Valvoline Racing oil in a blend of full synthetic. Now for the Zinc additive you can pretty much use anything that is a zinc additive for oil but I recommend the Lucas Break In oil additive part #10063. You can usually get the Lucas Zinc from any auto part stores. If you are going to just buy the additive then I would stay with the Rotella T4 that you are using now and just add the additive to that. The Rotella is a great oil, it just doesn't have the zinc that's needed in it.


Just did a fluid change on the boat and changed from Mobil 1 to Brad Penn. I have a good feeling about this oil. The interval on my last Mobil 1 change was barely 15 hours and was surprised that the oil already looked dirty if not burnt. Had some extra time today, a case of Brad Penn, not a beer in sight to slow me down so decided to do the change. Could just be my imagination but the engine truly sounded much quieter. If nothing else, I think this is the oil I should be running anyways since it's has all the anti-wear additives that's not in the Mobil 1. Too much money invested in this motor not to put the best oil I can into it.
“When plunder becomes a way of life for a group of men living together in society, they create for themselves in the course of time a legal system that authorizes it and a moral code that glorifies it” - Bastiat


Return to “Automotive Power Only”

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 2 guests